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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
All *Spoilers* regarding Desolation Of Smaug and TABA from Hobbit commentary
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Joe20
Lorien


Oct 28 2013, 5:43pm

Post #1 of 34 (3676 views)
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All *Spoilers* regarding Desolation Of Smaug and TABA from Hobbit commentary Can't Post

I finished watching the Extended EE commentary with PJ and Phillippa and I collected together all the bits of information regarding the next two movies. Warning spoilers to follow...


The gems shown to Thranduil will feature more in the 2nd and 3rd films.

We will find out why Gandalf has a different staff in FOTR at the end of the second/start of the third Hobbit film. Indicating Dol Guldur's placement in the story. (Already discussing that here... http://newboards.theonering.net/...orum.cgi?post=657618

The claw Frodo picks up in Bag End is supposed to be one of Smaug's claws. Though it was shot before they knew how big Smaug would be. PJ suspects it will look a little small compared to Smaug's actual claws.

The Sackville-Baggins' (Lobelia and Otho will feature later on in the trilogy. (Obviously the auction scene)

PJ and Co tried hard to explain the reasons why the Dwarves need a burglar in the Desolation Of Smaug.

Battle Of Moria flashback was originally going to happen in Beorn's house.

As the filming went on PJ started using less prosthetic orcs and more CG orcs. And he is happy about it. He thinks the orcs coming in the next two films will be very scary and formidable when compared to those in the original trilogy.

Spiders that attacked Radagast same as those in DOS.

How Gandalf gets the map and the key is changed from the book.

As the films go on they get darker. Very little comedy by the third.

The dagger found by Radagast is the same one that stabs Frodo on Weathertop and it will come in to play a lot more. It will "return to the darker powers later on in the trilogy"

Philippa mentions the Battle Of Dol Guldur by name. So it certainly will happen...

Something about the "who did you tell about your quest" line plays into the beginning of film 2. Also Personal and geopolitical reasoning for Azog seeking Thorin. (I think thats what they were getting at. Difficult to understand exactly what is in reference to what.)

The reason Kili is the only archer in the group is because he has a "certain affinity with another archer" (hmmm I wonder who.... Wink)

We will see Saruman again in the Hobbit movies.

Thrain's ring will come into play later on in the Desolation Of Smaug.

Galadriel will fulfil her promise to Gandalf that "if ever he should need her help. She will come".

The Thrush will return.


Elessar
Valinor


Oct 28 2013, 6:09pm

Post #2 of 34 (1761 views)
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Impressive! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's some good intel. I am really curious to see how it all comes together. Obviously some differences as we see but this is going to be one heck of a Trilogy.



Cillendor
Lorien

Oct 28 2013, 6:27pm

Post #3 of 34 (1709 views)
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Oh this is so exciting! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am perfectly fine with PJ & Co creating their own AU of Middle-earth if they can pull it all together. This trilogy is gearing up to be the most exciting movie trilogy ever made, barring perhaps the original LOTR films. I can't wait until I can book a whole Friday+Saturday and watch all six EE films back-to-back.


Shagrat
Gondor

Oct 28 2013, 6:34pm

Post #4 of 34 (1765 views)
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The "who did you tell about your quest" line [In reply to] Can't Post

Surely suggests Gandalf's meeting with Thrain, with perhaps Azog or Bolg overhearing. The irony of course being that Gandalf is the one to blame for all this trouble befalling Thorin and co.


FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan


Oct 28 2013, 6:43pm

Post #5 of 34 (1697 views)
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Oh my *squeals* so many spoilers! [In reply to] Can't Post

(I like to spoil things for myself, don't I?) Sly



In Reply To
The reason Kili is the only archer in the group is because he has a "certain affinity with another archer" (hmmm I wonder who.... Wink)

I don't think I have a clue who that is! Wink

I really can't wait until the DOS (or TABA for that matter). SUPER excited now! Smile
Thanks for posting, Joe! Wink

....."Loyalty, Honor,
......A Willing Heart.
I can ask no more than that."

...... ~ Thorin Oakenshield


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 28 2013, 6:45pm

Post #6 of 34 (1741 views)
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This really starts to become... [In reply to] Can't Post

... what I always wanted the book to be.

Regarding the gems... I guess they kind of merge the stories of the Nauglamir and of Girions necklace here.

Regarding Gandalf, the dagger and Galadriel: Apparently Gandalf will get badly injured during the end of DoS and Radagast still seems to be still in danger to die... One of them will lose during this the dagger back to the Witchking. And then the whole Galadriel salvation thing will set in which we heard about long ago. I actually think it will be the two Istari overwhelmed when they do not just face the Nazgul but the Necromancer as well. At the beginning of TABA Galadriel and Gandalf are joined by Elrond and Saruman (and Radagst if still alive) and the skirmish will take place.


Regarding the flashback in Beorns house and key and map. I guess this is a hint that they needed the time there for another flashback... The one that tells us how Gandalf got key and map.

Regarding the orcs... Thank God, I found Azog and the King looked vastly superior to their previous Azog designs. Hopefully, Bolg won't be prosthetics.


Thank you very much for your summary Joe20.:)



A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Weed
The Shire

Oct 28 2013, 8:43pm

Post #7 of 34 (1530 views)
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Prosthetic orcs! [In reply to] Can't Post

Want prosthetic orcs, not CGI ones.

The latter will move unrealistically and we'll be 'treated' to another overly-speedy and frantic set of scenes.

Seems to be a problem with most movies these days: the audience don't enjoy the film unless they get a 'visual kick' of some sort. Storytelling is the victim here!


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 28 2013, 8:50pm

Post #8 of 34 (1501 views)
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Has nothing to do with a kick for me... [In reply to] Can't Post

... or "these days".

I simply think it looks much much better most of the time, especially now that they do not need to do them within only a few weeks.

And has certainly nothing to do with storytelling for me. The story comes first and foremost to me, but that does not change the fact that I like a nicely done CGI orc ;) And I am sure it is the same for many... Not everyone liking Azog or his look is a degenerated action loving fankiddy.



A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

(This post was edited by Arannir on Oct 28 2013, 8:50pm)


Pazeer
Rivendell


Oct 28 2013, 8:51pm

Post #9 of 34 (1548 views)
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What I'm wondering is [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili has a "certain affinity with another archer" Who can it be? Because he uses his bow before he meets Tauriel or any of the elves in Mirkwood... So I don't quite understand what this implies, can anyone explain? Smile

BTW: "As the films go on they get darker. Very little comedy by the third."
I can't explain in words how excited I got by reading this! TABA is going to be amazing.


(This post was edited by Pazeer on Oct 28 2013, 8:53pm)


Joe20
Lorien


Oct 28 2013, 9:06pm

Post #10 of 34 (1515 views)
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Well I'm pretty sure they just mean [In reply to] Can't Post

that they gave Kili the bow so he would have more in common with Tauriel. Not that he started using the bow because of someone else.


Metal Slug
Rivendell

Oct 28 2013, 9:24pm

Post #11 of 34 (1423 views)
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Thanks for the skinny [In reply to] Can't Post

I find it impossible to wait for these sorts of things when the launch gets various times. Unimpressed

I'm liking how most of the broader arc seems to be developing. It looks like 3 films will prove to be a great decision.


Pazeer
Rivendell


Oct 28 2013, 9:25pm

Post #12 of 34 (1424 views)
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Oh [In reply to] Can't Post

I misunderstood the sentence then...
Thanks Wink


Simon
Rivendell

Oct 28 2013, 10:04pm

Post #13 of 34 (1443 views)
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EE Spoiler [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi everybody...thats been a long while since my last connexion but now, i'm really excited for DoS so i want to make a little comment about the Kili Archer thing. Above the funny moment with Kili in the EE at the diner table in Rivendell. You see that he can really "fancy" elf maiden even if he say the contrary to the bunch! I don't think this little moment is meaningless for what to come! Smile


(This post was edited by Simon on Oct 28 2013, 10:07pm)


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Oct 28 2013, 10:29pm

Post #14 of 34 (1437 views)
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Collecting the plots together [In reply to] Can't Post

When we sit down to watch the DOS a number of matters left hanging in the air in AUJ will gain traction and be properly developed. Thrain/Who did you tell about the quest/The Map and the Key/Thranduil's particular animosity toward the Dwarves but more than anything the knitting together of the disparate elements of evil. As the relationship between Azog/Bolg/Dol Gulder - The Witch King and Sauron- unfolds we will also see the way they have solved the biggest challenge of all how to bring the two plot elements together and the key element Saurons relationship with the BOFA.

I feel certain the BOFA will not just be consequent on the power vacuum left by the demise of the worm but it will be sponsored by Sauron. The image you shared of Gandalf riding fast with Radagasts staff may echo the dash across Rohan as he makes the terrifying journey to Minus Tirith at the beginning of the ROTK only this journey is North to Erebor following support through healing by Galadriel to warn of the unleashing of an army intent on marching on Erebor .

I also think PJ may go against type and offer terrific action at the end of DOS which lead to two cliff hangers Smaug flying to Lake Town and Gandalf and Radagast being seemingly overwhelmed at Dol Gulder with the forces of evil revealed. In the third movie we will then see the defeat of the twin evils Smaug and the army sent against Erebor and knowing the army is sponsored by Sauron and represents even greater danger than the dragon avoids the anti cllmatic nature of the book. Smaug's death is not the denouement the BOFO will be, followed by a heart wrenching 3rd Act and epilogue..

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Oct 28 2013, 10:30pm)


Joe20
Lorien


Oct 28 2013, 11:14pm

Post #15 of 34 (1292 views)
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Yep my thoughts exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DjU
Lorien

Oct 28 2013, 11:57pm

Post #16 of 34 (1244 views)
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perhaps not that way round [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Regarding the flashback in Beorns house and key and map. I guess this is a hint that they needed the time there for another flashback... The one that tells us how Gandalf got key and map.


I wouldn't necessarily read it that way - I would think it more of a case that after they chose to move Azanulbizar out of the Prologue as it was first envisioned they moved it to Beorns, however then the three film split happened and the rest at Beorns wasn't due to be in Film1 they had to move it

Although that doesn't mean there now won't/can't be a flashback at Beorns, as you say they may have put a different one there now.


Ffnir
Rohan


Oct 29 2013, 12:06am

Post #17 of 34 (1244 views)
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If the evil army goe to erebor prior to Smaug's death [In reply to] Can't Post

there must be the hope of an alliance between them and Smaug, which is greatest fear of Gandalf. Of course we know Smaug will die before any army arrive to Erebor


Thranderz
Rohan


Oct 29 2013, 12:33am

Post #18 of 34 (1259 views)
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You missed [In reply to] Can't Post

the vital information of the fact that they are doing pick-ups for films 2 and 3! Wink

I simply walked into Mordor.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Oct 29 2013, 2:18am

Post #19 of 34 (1183 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As the filming went on PJ started using less prosthetic orcs and more CG orcs. And he is happy about it. He thinks the orcs coming in the next two films will be very scary and formidable when compared to those in the original trilogy.


Pretty excited about everything in there except for what's in the quote box. Unless of course, PJ filmed the entire thing backwardsWink. Not very likely though.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Oct 29 2013, 2:24am

Post #20 of 34 (1152 views)
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Me too [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
BTW: "As the films go on they get darker. Very little comedy by the third."
I can't explain in words how excited I got by reading this! TABA is going to be amazing.


I'm really excited for this. It could really tie everything together to have it become darker (which is really kind of how the book was, IMO). Honestly, when I saw that shot in the DOS trailer of the orc army marching I thought it looked EXACTLY like it belonged in PJ's LOTR trilogy. The aesthetics and tone of that quick little shot was perfect.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Aragorn the Elfstone
Grey Havens


Oct 29 2013, 3:13am

Post #21 of 34 (1178 views)
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Thank god re: Azog [In reply to] Can't Post

One of my major beefs with the film ever since my first viewing has been the fact that Azog all of a sudden decides to seek out Thorin to kill him, when the Battle of Moria was over a hundred years beforehand. Glad to see that this will be addressed.

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 29 2013, 4:12am

Post #22 of 34 (1102 views)
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Is your Apparently based on hard intel, inside information or hypothetical speculation [In reply to] Can't Post

from what we already have here?

In Reply To
... what I always wanted the book to be.

Regarding the gems... I guess they kind of merge the stories of the Nauglamir and of Girions necklace here.

Regarding Gandalf, the dagger and Galadriel: Apparently Gandalf will get badly injured during the end of DoS and Radagast still seems to be still in danger to die... One of them will lose during this the dagger back to the Witchking. And then the whole Galadriel salvation thing will set in which we heard about long ago. I actually think it will be the two Istari overwhelmed when they do not just face the Nazgul but the Necromancer as well. At the beginning of TABA Galadriel and Gandalf are joined by Elrond and Saruman (and Radagst if still alive) and the skirmish will take place.


Regarding the flashback in Beorns house and key and map. I guess this is a hint that they needed the time there for another flashback... The one that tells us how Gandalf got key and map.

Regarding the orcs... Thank God, I found Azog and the King looked vastly superior to their previous Azog designs. Hopefully, Bolg won't be prosthetics.


Thank you very much for your summary Joe20.:)


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Oct 29 2013, 6:58am

Post #23 of 34 (1011 views)
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Absolutely [In reply to] Can't Post

I did not make this point but it was in my mind. We all know (from Tolkiens background writings) that Gandalf's great fear is the Dragon could be used to terrible effect by Sauron. It would be rather neat for this dreadful possibility to be left hanging in the air (could not resist that) at the end of film 2 and would I am sure be welcomed and endorsed by Warner Brothers for keeping expectations at fever pitch for December 2015. Curiously for once big business would meet Tolkien bang on.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


Thranderz
Rohan


Oct 29 2013, 8:51am

Post #24 of 34 (974 views)
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As soon [In reply to] Can't Post

as PJ said 'that's not the last we see of Saruman.' I screamed like a little girl! Laugh

I simply walked into Mordor.


Bernhardina
Rohan


Oct 29 2013, 9:23am

Post #25 of 34 (964 views)
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Woah [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting this! I did not want to buy the EE if there were no commentaries so I am really happy I can do that now. I am so excited about the DoS!! I like the fact that the movies are getting darker Evil

Boromir: ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK INTO MORDOR...

Gandalf: FLY, YOU FOOLS!

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