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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
My choice too (for best chapter, that is!)

Riven Delve
Rohan


Oct 26 2013, 11:41am


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My choice too (for best chapter, that is!) [In reply to] Can't Post


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This chapter features two great scenes with two one-on-one conversations, involving four fabulous actors. What a pleasure to watch!


Gandalf is persuasive, but Bilbo is quite resistant. How much do you think this conversation influenced Bilbo's choice to follow the Company? Was it the primary influence or do you see something else as stronger?
Yes, Gandalf is persuasive--but not to Bilbo's Baggins side! It's not until his Took side "wakes up" to the Dwarven song that Gandalf's words really sink in. (More on that later.)
I think it's very clever of Gandalf to bring up Bullroarer Took. Why would a respectable Baggins have a picture of a wild, freakishly tall Goblin-slaughterer hanging on his wall? Because he secretly admires him, of course. Deep down he probably wishes he could participate in a similar kind of adventure. Leave it to Gandalf to use this to his advantage!
Another thing I appreciate about this scene is not only the perspective, which I assume was done with the two-room method involving speaking to tennis balls, but also that Bilbo is firmly rooted to his chair, demonstrating his determination not to be moved. Gandalf paces around the room for most of the conversation, as one would expect from a wandering wizard. And yet when it comes down to brass tacks, the two are sitting face to face, as equals.



An apprehensive Bilbo is seeking reassurance from Gandalf that he will come back: there is a small but dramatic pause before Gandalf answers. What do you think of Gandalf's choice not to give the answer "yes" - the answer that would have served his own immediate and weighty need?
One of the things I most disliked about the book as a kid was that Gandalf harries Bilbo into the adventure and then abandons him for long periods of time to extreme danger and extremely cranky Dwarves. Here in the movie Bilbo makes the decision fully on his own, and fully aware (well, as much as he can be at this point) of the risks.
Even though we have seen Gandalf "trick" Bilbo into hosting a party and use sly arguments on him, we can see that Gandalf is fundamentally honest. This scene makes a large impact when we see how he maneuvers in Rivendell and faces his "questioners" at the meeting of the White Council.


A key scene: Balin and Thorin in the hall. It is a very private, intimate exchange, and they appear to switch roles back-and-forth as counselor and counselled, strong and vulnerable, in this scene. It begins with Balin, pessimistic and defeatist about their chances;

Thorin speaks from his heart about loyalty, honor and a willing heart. Then it is Thorin's turn to look uncertain, and Balin speaks about his many priceless accomplishments in the Blue Mountains, as their leader. Each seems to know what the other needs in that moment. I feel this scene in both writing and execution speaks volumes, of these two Dwarves.

Does it seem to finally settle the shadow of conflict between Balin and Thorin at the table earlier, as to whether Balin can accept the Quest and stand by Thorin once and for all? Or do you think Balin still has doubts?
First of all, I'd like to note that the scene takes place in a hall, a "transitional" area...and this scene is kind of transitional too, in the sense that it marks a place of doubt. They seem to have lost their burglar. Balin is not convinced the quest has any chance of success. Thorin even seems to have doubts.
And yet we are given insight into the reasons, which really are beyond "reason" that Thorin is determined to continue. And wow, what insight into both their characters in this soul-exposing talk! We see Thorin's pain, doubt, and vulnerability, and Balin's doubts and fierce loyalty. This scene is what really made me fall for both Balin and Thorin.Heart And I must add that Richard Armitage's eyes do almost all the acting here, with a supporting role for his voice. That is just incredible to me!
I think Balin still has doubts--it's his loyalty to Thorin that is carrying him along on this journey.

Is this a unique and trusting relationship between Thorin and Balin, or is this a window into the soul of Dwarven culture: intense loyalty and private pain?
I think it's a little of both, as we see in the next scene.



"Our perennial spiritual and psychological task is to look at things familiar until they become unfamiliar again." --G. K. Chesterton


Subject User Time
CHOWS Chapter: Bilbo's Choice Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 25 2013, 4:58pm
    "The Misty Mountains Cold": a turning point? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 25 2013, 5:20pm
        Heh, heh- yes, another favourite moment indeed! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Oct 25 2013, 6:49pm
            Politics behind the emotion Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:10am
        Since you asked... Dame Ioreth Send a private message to Dame Ioreth Oct 25 2013, 9:23pm
            Congrats on making it to Rivendell! Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 25 2013, 11:36pm
            Congrats on your 100th post!!!! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:22am
        Wonderful scenes, all three of them. The song, in particular, ranks as one of my favorite Middle-earth moments. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Oct 26 2013, 12:28am
            Your wonderful avatar is almost back in season Macfeast! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 1:03am
                Jingle beards, jingle beards, jingle all the way! // Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Oct 26 2013, 1:29am
                    This *needs* to be a Holiday song!!!! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 5:02pm
        Where Bilbo's choice really occurs Riven Delve Send a private message to Riven Delve Oct 26 2013, 12:09pm
        The Misty Mountains song is possibly my favourite moment in AUJ. Noria Send a private message to Noria Oct 26 2013, 1:42pm
            The Dwarves and the song... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 5:01pm
        The sparks Nunilo Send a private message to Nunilo Oct 31 2013, 11:28pm
            Nice take on the spark shot Nunilo! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Nov 1 2013, 12:52am
    Well..... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Oct 25 2013, 6:32pm
        Ok: to start with... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:01am
    One of my favorite sequences :-) Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 25 2013, 11:28pm
        Such a great scene - how did I know you'd love it??? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:37am
    * Rubs hands* Now for Thorin (...oh and Balin too) Dame Ioreth Send a private message to Dame Ioreth Oct 25 2013, 11:32pm
        Wonderful post Dame Ioreth! Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 25 2013, 11:43pm
            Well, garsh.... Dame Ioreth Send a private message to Dame Ioreth Oct 26 2013, 1:21am
                Again, I have to agree with you Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 26 2013, 2:05am
                    I so agree with you Kim & Ioreth + spoilers+ elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Oct 26 2013, 8:09am
                        Not all who wander are lost...some OT is just fine!!! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 5:03pm
    Thanks Brethil Noria Send a private message to Noria Oct 25 2013, 11:55pm
        Speaking of Golf! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:49am
    My choice too (for best chapter, that is!) Riven Delve Send a private message to Riven Delve Oct 26 2013, 11:41am
        The Bullroarer: what a good catch R-D Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 4:47pm
    Really beautiful moments! Silwen_Peredhil Send a private message to Silwen_Peredhil Oct 28 2013, 8:44pm
        Wow Silwen, what a wonderful post! Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 28 2013, 9:40pm
            Oh, thank you Kim! Silwen_Peredhil Send a private message to Silwen_Peredhil Oct 30 2013, 4:39pm
        Thanks to YOU Silwen! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 29 2013, 12:45am
            Thank you. :) Silwen_Peredhil Send a private message to Silwen_Peredhil Oct 30 2013, 4:51pm
                Yes, I see you in Rivendell!!!! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 30 2013, 8:27pm
    Another one of my all-time favourite scenes from The Hobbit (I think we all know why) FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Send a private message to FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Oct 29 2013, 6:35pm
        Great responses Morningstar! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 30 2013, 12:44am
            Aww, thank you, Brethil. FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Send a private message to FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Oct 30 2013, 9:46pm
                I agree.. and feel lucky to enjoy it all! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 31 2013, 12:27am
                    Agree 100% with you there. FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Send a private message to FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Oct 31 2013, 5:54pm
    All I really have to add is ... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 30 2013, 8:32pm
        Great summary Daniel... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 30 2013, 9:05pm

 
 
 

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