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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Speaking of Golf!

Brethil
Half-elven


Oct 26 2013, 12:49am


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Speaking of Golf! [In reply to] Can't Post


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Gandalf and Bilbo debate Bilbo's involvement the Quest... Gandalf is persuasive, but Bilbo is quite resistant. How much do you think this conversation influenced Bilbo's choice to follow the Company? Was it the primary influence or do you see something else as stronger?

The conversation didn't seem to shake Bilbo's resolve but maybe it brought back memories of a younger, more Took-like Hobbit and the dreams he had. Maybe it softened him up.

A bit OT: one of my favourite parts of AUJ is Gandalf's speech about Bullroarer Took and the invention of golf. I love how the writers took this bit of silliness in the book and worked it into the dialogue in such a way that it makes perfect sense. Gandalf’s so deliberately deadpan delivery and Bilbo’s response are great. I love the line about how every story should be embellished.


I love going a bit OT Noria! Glad you bring this part up as part of the interaction. I agree, that Gandlaf uses various approaches here to 'soften' Bilbo towards the quest - drawing on his memories of adventure in his youth, the family story (which I agree: was worked in very believably). Gandalf seems to be giving it everything he's got in this scene to make it happen. Short of deception, as you say ...

**An apprehensive Bilbo is seeking reassurance from Gandalf that he will come back: there is a small but dramatic pause before Gandalf answers. What do you think of Gandalf's choice not to give the answer "yes" - the answer that would have served his own immediate and weighty need?
I think Gandalf was being honest and honourable. He may be manipulative but he's not deceitful and he wants Bilbo to know what he's getting into, even if in the end the Hobbit refuses.
I brought this up because I love the Gandalfness of Gandalf here! He doesn't use deception even at need, especially for little Bilbo (considering Gandalf knows there will be peril).


A key scene: Balin and Thorin in the hall..
Does it seem to finally settle the shadow of conflict between Balin and Thorin at the table earlier, as to whether Balin can accept the Quest and stand by Thorin once and for all? Or do you think Balin still has doubts?

I think that Balin still had doubts about the likelihood of success, but he recognizes that Thorin is set on the quest and so will support him unreservedly. This is a lovely scene, with so much love and respect and history between the two Dwarves. Their conflict is not a clash of egos or a struggle for power but a difference of opinion. At the end Balin commits himself.


Exactly - the deep feeling and respect shows through. And if Balin has reservations I think they don't relate to himself or his own safety, but to the price Thorin may have to pay in the end. That moment of commitment I think is so well played by Ken Stott.
Is this a unique and trusting relationship between Thorin and Balin, or is this a window into the soul of Dwarven culture: intense loyalty and private pain?
Both, I think. There is obviously a strong relationship between Thorin and Balin. Clearly loyalty and honour are much valued. IMO Thorin's pain is related to the situation, the loss of Erebor and the destruction of his family rather rather than some Dwarven cultural antihedonia.
I think the value of the prologue is to show that about Thorin - how much has been lost and the hint of explanation as to why he feels driven to reclaim Erebor; also a great point that the way the scene is written the wealth aspect is devalued, and the pride and honor are more in Thorin's mind.



Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!




Subject User Time
CHOWS Chapter: Bilbo's Choice Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 25 2013, 4:58pm
    "The Misty Mountains Cold": a turning point? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 25 2013, 5:20pm
        Heh, heh- yes, another favourite moment indeed! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Oct 25 2013, 6:49pm
            Politics behind the emotion Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:10am
        Since you asked... Dame Ioreth Send a private message to Dame Ioreth Oct 25 2013, 9:23pm
            Congrats on making it to Rivendell! Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 25 2013, 11:36pm
            Congrats on your 100th post!!!! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:22am
        Wonderful scenes, all three of them. The song, in particular, ranks as one of my favorite Middle-earth moments. Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Oct 26 2013, 12:28am
            Your wonderful avatar is almost back in season Macfeast! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 1:03am
                Jingle beards, jingle beards, jingle all the way! // Macfeast Send a private message to Macfeast Oct 26 2013, 1:29am
                    This *needs* to be a Holiday song!!!! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 5:02pm
        Where Bilbo's choice really occurs Riven Delve Send a private message to Riven Delve Oct 26 2013, 12:09pm
        The Misty Mountains song is possibly my favourite moment in AUJ. Noria Send a private message to Noria Oct 26 2013, 1:42pm
            The Dwarves and the song... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 5:01pm
        The sparks Nunilo Send a private message to Nunilo Oct 31 2013, 11:28pm
            Nice take on the spark shot Nunilo! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Nov 1 2013, 12:52am
    Well..... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Oct 25 2013, 6:32pm
        Ok: to start with... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:01am
    One of my favorite sequences :-) Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 25 2013, 11:28pm
        Such a great scene - how did I know you'd love it??? Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:37am
    * Rubs hands* Now for Thorin (...oh and Balin too) Dame Ioreth Send a private message to Dame Ioreth Oct 25 2013, 11:32pm
        Wonderful post Dame Ioreth! Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 25 2013, 11:43pm
            Well, garsh.... Dame Ioreth Send a private message to Dame Ioreth Oct 26 2013, 1:21am
                Again, I have to agree with you Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 26 2013, 2:05am
                    I so agree with you Kim & Ioreth + spoilers+ elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Oct 26 2013, 8:09am
                        Not all who wander are lost...some OT is just fine!!! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 5:03pm
    Thanks Brethil Noria Send a private message to Noria Oct 25 2013, 11:55pm
        Speaking of Golf! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 12:49am
    My choice too (for best chapter, that is!) Riven Delve Send a private message to Riven Delve Oct 26 2013, 11:41am
        The Bullroarer: what a good catch R-D Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 26 2013, 4:47pm
    Really beautiful moments! Silwen_Peredhil Send a private message to Silwen_Peredhil Oct 28 2013, 8:44pm
        Wow Silwen, what a wonderful post! Kim Send a private message to Kim Oct 28 2013, 9:40pm
            Oh, thank you Kim! Silwen_Peredhil Send a private message to Silwen_Peredhil Oct 30 2013, 4:39pm
        Thanks to YOU Silwen! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 29 2013, 12:45am
            Thank you. :) Silwen_Peredhil Send a private message to Silwen_Peredhil Oct 30 2013, 4:51pm
                Yes, I see you in Rivendell!!!! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 30 2013, 8:27pm
    Another one of my all-time favourite scenes from The Hobbit (I think we all know why) FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Send a private message to FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Oct 29 2013, 6:35pm
        Great responses Morningstar! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 30 2013, 12:44am
            Aww, thank you, Brethil. FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Send a private message to FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Oct 30 2013, 9:46pm
                I agree.. and feel lucky to enjoy it all! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 31 2013, 12:27am
                    Agree 100% with you there. FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Send a private message to FaramirAndEowynMorningStar Oct 31 2013, 5:54pm
    All I really have to add is ... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 30 2013, 8:32pm
        Great summary Daniel... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Oct 30 2013, 9:05pm

 
 
 

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