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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Something that annoys me is Radagast's timing

AshNazg
Rohan


Oct 25 2013, 8:01pm

Post #1 of 21 (1162 views)
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Something that annoys me is Radagast's timing Can't Post

I've been thinking about the scene where Radagast shows up and meets the company as it's always really annoyed me. How does he know where to find Gandalf and why does he go to see Gandalf of all people? After much thinking I devised my own version of the film which I hope you agree is much better.

I like how Radagast is introduced in (a possible) flashback to Mirkwood after Bilbo asks about other wizards. So that's fine leave as is.

After the trolls Gandalf introduces Brett Mckenzie who in my version is playing Glorfindel. Glorfindel explains to the company that wargs were spotter nearby, the chase sequence follows and Glorfindel leads the dwarves to Rivendell as the only place to get away from orcs, explaining its protection. (and explaining the horses in FotR to movieverse fans)

Now we meet Radagast IN RIVENDELL - this to me makes much more sense. In PJ's version Saruman has called the council together for no apparent reason. Here Radagast has called it together because of his findings in Dol Guldur. Not only does it make more sense but it improves the White Council scene as Radagast's involvement adds lightheartedness and comedy to what is an otherwise serious and rather dull scene.

I can't really get my head around why it isn't played out this way. It seems to work much better and surely PJ considered it? Is there something I'm missing that means that this doesn't work?


(This post was edited by AshNazg on Oct 25 2013, 8:02pm)


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Oct 25 2013, 8:13pm

Post #2 of 21 (618 views)
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There's really no point in introducing Glorfindel [In reply to] Can't Post

It's possible Radagast goes to see Gandalf because the two of them have the closest connection of all the Wizards.

I thought Saruman called the Council because he became aware of Gandalf's "schemes" with the Company and wanted answers as to his motivations?


Quote
Saruman: Tell me, Gandalf, did you think these plans and schemes of yours would go unnoticed?



(This post was edited by MatthewJer18 on Oct 25 2013, 8:14pm)


architecthis
Lorien


Oct 25 2013, 8:14pm

Post #3 of 21 (578 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

His intro is a little too arbitrary


AshNazg
Rohan


Oct 25 2013, 8:40pm

Post #4 of 21 (568 views)
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But how does Saruman know about these "schemes"? [In reply to] Can't Post

There's nothing to indicate to Saruman that anything is happening up to that point, unless something gets explained regarding Thrain in Dol Guldur, but I don't think that's very likely.

Radagast may well be the closest to Gandalf, but Gandalf is a wandering wizard, and as such is hard to track down. Would it not make more sense to go and see someone with a house, when you know where to find them?

And Glorfindel, I think, is a perfect character to introduce, much more so than Lindir of all people! Many fans, myself included, weren't happy about his removal from FotR and to put him here is the perfect place, where he serves a similar function. In the book Gandalf explains his scouting ahead and looking behind and says "I spoke to a few friends from Rivendell, they were were worried about trolls in the area". So substituting nameless friends for Glorfindel would fit perfectly.

The book actually says "couple of friends" so it could be Elladan and Elrohir, if you prefer. But I like an excuse to reintroduce Glorfindel.


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Oct 25 2013, 9:18pm

Post #5 of 21 (520 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

Radagast had a lot of animal friends, right? Maybe he send out birds in all directions to find Gandalf? Make sense to me...

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''


Hamfast Gamgee
Gondor

Oct 25 2013, 11:07pm

Post #6 of 21 (453 views)
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Perhaps he asked around! [In reply to] Can't Post

 


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 26 2013, 1:07am

Post #7 of 21 (423 views)
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I am with AshNazg on Glorfindel, though not for this scene. He should have been in Rivendell, MUCH more so [In reply to] Can't Post

than Lindir. Lindir getting name recognition and lines when Glorfindel still doesn't is the biggest slap in the face snub since Galadriel refused to give a single strand of hair to her uncle Feanor.

In Reply To
It's possible Radagast goes to see Gandalf because the two of them have the closest connection of all the Wizards.

I thought Saruman called the Council because he became aware of Gandalf's "schemes" with the Company and wanted answers as to his motivations?


Quote
Saruman: Tell me, Gandalf, did you think these plans and schemes of yours would go unnoticed?



"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 26 2013, 1:15am

Post #8 of 21 (419 views)
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I thought the finding was odd as well, however, he is a friend to all beasts and birds, [In reply to] Can't Post

and we don't know what powers he is especially gifted in. He is a Wizard, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt and of his spy capable associations.

Gandalf seems like the PERFECT person to go to, aside from Thranduil, who has less influence among The Wise, in all likelihood. Saruman is clearly disdainful of him. No help there. Gandalf has the respect to make the concerns heard by the rest of the Wise. He is also the most likely to take them seriously and to investigate them. Radagast would know this.

I could see Radagast waiting in Rivendell. That does make sense.

I am 100% with you about Glorfindel, though. SOOOOO much more appropriate than Lindir.

In Reply To
I've been thinking about the scene where Radagast shows up and meets the company as it's always really annoyed me. How does he know where to find Gandalf and why does he go to see Gandalf of all people? After much thinking I devised my own version of the film which I hope you agree is much better.

I like how Radagast is introduced in (a possible) flashback to Mirkwood after Bilbo asks about other wizards. So that's fine leave as is.

After the trolls Gandalf introduces Brett Mckenzie who in my version is playing Glorfindel. Glorfindel explains to the company that wargs were spotter nearby, the chase sequence follows and Glorfindel leads the dwarves to Rivendell as the only place to get away from orcs, explaining its protection. (and explaining the horses in FotR to movieverse fans)

Now we meet Radagast IN RIVENDELL - this to me makes much more sense. In PJ's version Saruman has called the council together for no apparent reason. Here Radagast has called it together because of his findings in Dol Guldur. Not only does it make more sense but it improves the White Council scene as Radagast's involvement adds lightheartedness and comedy to what is an otherwise serious and rather dull scene.

I can't really get my head around why it isn't played out this way. It seems to work much better and surely PJ considered it? Is there something I'm missing that means that this doesn't work?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Bladerunner
Gondor


Oct 26 2013, 2:46am

Post #9 of 21 (407 views)
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I'm annoyed by how quickly Radagast travels from one side of the Misty Mountains to the other side on a rabbit sled. [In reply to] Can't Post

and also that Radagast was not shown helping the dwarves when the orcs realized they were being tricked and began pursuing the dwarves instead of Radagast.

Did he just continue racing to Rhosgobel?... and why, in spite of their tracking prowess, didn't the elves notice either Radagast or any of Thorin's company?

At the least Radagast should have returned to Rivendell with Elrond, and upon arrival at Rivendell Elrond should have mentioned to Gandalf "yeah, we figured you and your company had made it to Rivendell ahead of us, since we noticed your tracks all over the place, how many are you 13?, 14? is their a half-ling among you?"

That would have been more plausible, than the narrative plot hole Mr. Jackson created with his twisting of this part of the story....



sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Oct 26 2013, 3:20pm

Post #10 of 21 (325 views)
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The thing that helps me with this one [In reply to] Can't Post

is that we don't know when Radagast's introduction, and subsequent disovery of evil in the forest, takes place within the film-verse. It might be a bit farfetched to place it one hundred years or more before the events of The Hobbit (when they would have actually taken place), but it makes sense to me to think of them taking a few months before he finds and meets up with Gandalf, possibly even a year or so. By this line of thinking, it could have taken Radagast a month or so to find Gandalf and the company, and still make in film sense.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Oct 26 2013, 3:25pm)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Oct 26 2013, 7:37pm

Post #11 of 21 (267 views)
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this makes sense to me [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Radagast had a lot of animal friends, right? Maybe he send out birds in all directions to find Gandalf? Make sense to me...



take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Avandel
Valinor

Oct 27 2013, 1:24am

Post #12 of 21 (206 views)
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Agree [In reply to] Can't Post

He talks to birds, who chatter to each other - it's crossed my mind when watching AUJ, but he's a WIZARD and not only talks with animals, he can probably divine in some way.


Faleel
Rohan

Oct 27 2013, 2:26am

Post #13 of 21 (205 views)
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From what I know [In reply to] Can't Post

He could still be being chased by a few Wargs.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 27 2013, 6:39am

Post #14 of 21 (190 views)
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I also like to think of it not as a new discovery, but as a revelation on a longterm, worsening problem. [In reply to] Can't Post

"Nothing grows there anymore," is not a statement one makes after a short observation. I have and like the notion that things had been going sour in the Greenwood for years, but has only recently reached a point where it is so bad and pervasive that Radagast cannot explain it through anything other than a powerfully malevolent force.

In Reply To
is that we don't know when Radagast's introduction, and subsequent disovery of evil in the forest, takes place within the film-verse. It might be a bit farfetched to place it one hundred years or more before the events of The Hobbit (when they would have actually taken place), but it makes sense to me to think of them taking a few months before he finds and meets up with Gandalf, possibly even a year or so. By this line of thinking, it could have taken Radagast a month or so to find Gandalf and the company, and still make in film sense.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Oct 27 2013, 1:02pm

Post #15 of 21 (147 views)
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Yeah, [In reply to] Can't Post

that helps too, and works in the framework of the film. It just seems like this whole Greenwood/Mirkwood development was handled rather clumsily in AUJ. And it's too bad, because this is the stuff i love most about Tolkien and his Middle-earth history, and it's just this kind of thing that the LotR films handled so well.


imin
Valinor


Oct 27 2013, 2:15pm

Post #16 of 21 (132 views)
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Could be down to the two to three film change? [In reply to] Can't Post

At least that is what i put it down to. If there were two films (as originally there was going to be) then more mirkwood material would be in the first film. As it is, it feels a bit jumbled up. I'm guessing more will become clear though over the next film.

'What's the matter with you?' - J.R.R. Tolkien


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Oct 27 2013, 6:51pm

Post #17 of 21 (112 views)
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not sure until i see the next film regarding Mirkwood [In reply to] Can't Post

the forest is so great that the "darkness growing" could have been growing slowly, like the dol-guldur area looked like it had been "webbed" for a long time and Radagast's area was just starting to become part of Mirkwood.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 28 2013, 2:44am

Post #18 of 21 (71 views)
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Rings made a few major snafus also. Like suggesting Isildur was the last king of Gondor [In reply to] Can't Post

Hell of a shortlived kingdom, if so. Unsure

In Reply To
that helps too, and works in the framework of the film. It just seems like this whole Greenwood/Mirkwood development was handled rather clumsily in AUJ. And it's too bad, because this is the stuff i love most about Tolkien and his Middle-earth history, and it's just this kind of thing that the LotR films handled so well.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Oct 28 2013, 2:46pm

Post #19 of 21 (53 views)
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I second this. [In reply to] Can't Post

I got the impression from the distance Radagast had to travel to Dol Guldur and the particularly decayed appearance of the forest around it that that portion of the forest went on the decline first and the serious effects are only just now reaching Rhosgobel (which, someone correct me if I'm wrong, was on the western side of Mirkwood - am I right?). So it's been going on for some time, but only now has it reached the point that Radagast feels the need to seek out Gandalf and warn him.

I also imagine it took him weeks or months to find Gandalf. As for him being *able* to find Gandalf, I do not consider it unreasonable that the Istari are able to sense each other's presences and find each other.



In Reply To


the forest is so great that the "darkness growing" could have been growing slowly, like the dol-guldur area looked like it had been "webbed" for a long time and Radagast's area was just starting to become part of Mirkwood.




"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2013, 4:14pm

Post #20 of 21 (46 views)
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and... [In reply to] Can't Post

Radagast lives on the very western borders of Mirkwood too.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Oct 28 2013, 10:41pm

Post #21 of 21 (48 views)
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They are on the road. [In reply to] Can't Post

They are supposed to be travelling on the main west-east road. Radagast may know that Gandalf has gone to the west - the Shire etc. so he is just heading in that direction along the road. It is inevitable that he would run into them. Of course, the film makes it less obvious that they are on the main highway between Rivendell and the Shire, hence it looks like they just run into each other by chance.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."

 
 

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