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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I'm calling it right now!!!
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ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Oct 24 2013, 3:57am

Post #1 of 81 (2954 views)
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I'm calling it right now!!! Can't Post

Of course we all know the climax of the Hobbit trilogy will likely be a great showdown between one Azog the defiler and one Thorin Oakenshield at the Battle of Five Armies. I predict it will play out in four major beats:

A: Thorin will attack Azog at the opportune time, laying down a few real good hits, severely wounding Azog but the battle will turn in Azog's favor. Kili and Fili will see Thorin is ultimately outmatched against the towering Azog and is in mortal danger.

B: The pair heroically attack Azog, taking Azog's focus away from a badly battered and, perhaps, wounded Thorin. The pair lay down several more good hits on the pail orc before he tragically takes them out for good. Then Azog taunts our dwarven king Thorin who has witnessed the demise of his two friends.

C: Thorin goes into utterly-fuming-rage-mode unlike anything we've ever seen from him before. By this point Bolg has taken notice of the situation. (Enter slow-motion accompanied by Howard Shore's epic percussion style battle music) In a second wind, the wounded Thorin rises to his feet and ferociously and desperately attacks the wounded Azog with everything he has, killing Azog in epic fashion (a crowd cheering moment)

D: Enter Bolg. He arrives too late and attempts to avenge Azog's death. Thorin amazes us by now taking on Bolg, laying down a few good hits (Shore's epic battle percussion continues) but the fight proves too difficult for the battered and exhausted Thorin and Bolg tragically takes out the Dwarven King (Enter somber and sad violin motifs) Our company notices, runs in and completely destroys Bolg, no contest. (perhaps another crowd cheering moment)

END EPIC FIGHT SCENE. Thoughts?


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 24 2013, 4:02am

Post #2 of 81 (1531 views)
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Sadly likely. Not assured, but likely. This Azog thing has gone so far off the damned rails. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't mind tweaks, I really don't, generally speaking, but this determination to massively rewrite the history of The Dwarves. Meh.

In Reply To
Of course we all know the climax of the Hobbit trilogy will likely be a great showdown between one Azog the defiler and one Thorin Oakenshield at the Battle of Five Armies. I predict it will play out in four major beats:

A: Thorin will attack Azog at the opportune time, laying down a few real good hits, severely wounding Azog but the battle will turn in Azog's favor. Kili and Fili will see Thorin is ultimately outmatched against the towering Azog and is in mortal danger.

B: The pair heroically attack Azog, taking Azog's focus away from a badly battered and, perhaps, wounded Thorin. The pair lay down several more good hits on the pail orc before he tragically takes them out for good. Then Azog taunts our dwarven king Thorin who has witnessed the demise of his two friends.

C: Thorin goes into utterly-fuming-rage-mode unlike anything we've ever seen from him before. By this point Bolg has taken notice of the situation. (Enter slow-motion accompanied by Howard Shore's epic percussion style battle music) In a second wind, the wounded Thorin rises to his feet and ferociously and desperately attacks the wounded Azog with everything he has, killing Azog in epic fashion (a crowd cheering moment)

D: Enter Bolg. He arrives too late and attempts to avenge Azog's death. Thorin amazes us by now taking on Bolg, laying down a few good hits (Shore's epic battle percussion continues) but the fight proves too difficult for the battered and exhausted Thorin and Bolg tragically takes out the Dwarven King (Enter somber and sad violin motifs) Our company notices, runs in and completely destroys Bolg, no contest. (perhaps another crowd cheering moment)

END EPIC FIGHT SCENE. Thoughts?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Oct 24 2013, 4:39am

Post #3 of 81 (1447 views)
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Yeah... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it is pretty likely that Thorin will end up being the one to kill Azog. Personally, I'd like to see Azog get killed in DoS by whomever (and preferably early on), but if we must suffer that damned anachronism until the Bo5A, I'd rather see Dain kill him (since it is Dain who kills Azog in the book), or at least Dain in tandem with Thorin.

As for the other characters, I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that PJ will stick with the book with regard to Bolg killing Thorin, and Beorn killing Bolg. Fili and Kili, I'm guessing that either Azog or Bolg will kill them, probably as they attempt to rescue Thorin.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Oct 24 2013, 4:44am

Post #4 of 81 (1433 views)
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It's kind of depressing to me [In reply to] Can't Post

to realize that yes, Azog will be around for all three films. It's really put a damper on my geeking out for this trilogy.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Oct 24 2013, 4:53am

Post #5 of 81 (1412 views)
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i like Azog [In reply to] Can't Post

he's grown on me, i have no problem with him being in the next two films just as long as Bolg doesn't get pushed to second place.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Oct 24 2013, 5:07am

Post #6 of 81 (1385 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

I really don't see what all this hate for Azog is... I mean, yes he should be dead but who cares. He's a menacing orc and a good villain. Lurtz, by comparison, was so one dimensional. And he takes up very little screen time in An Unexpected Journey. And he speaks in his native tongue. How cool is that!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Oct 24 2013, 5:21am

Post #7 of 81 (1367 views)
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very cool! [In reply to] Can't Post

i think Azog is a way better villain than Lurtz who was pretty one dimensional, he just took orders from Saruman. Azog on the other hand has a rich history with the dwarves and is the king of a legion of orcs in mount gundabad! He rides a white warg which is just bad ass and yes i love that he speaks in his native tongue. -Btw i couldn't get enough of his guttural laughs and cries of anger that he made at the end of AUJ!


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Yngwulff
Gondor


Oct 24 2013, 5:28am

Post #8 of 81 (1341 views)
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will he survive? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do we know for certain Azog will not be killed in DOS and make it to TABA?

I think Dain will kill him if he does sorta kinda keeping to canon if he does.

“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”



DeadRabbits
Lorien


Oct 24 2013, 6:48am

Post #9 of 81 (1307 views)
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You forgot about Beorn... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think PJ is going to miss out on the opportunity to have him kill Bolg in an epic battle, giant bear vs giant pale orc.

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 24 2013, 7:09am

Post #10 of 81 (1330 views)
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THIS! At this point it makes much more sense for Thorin to slay him than Azog, but can it be soon! [In reply to] Can't Post

The notion of Azog present at a battle that his death was a partial motivator for his son getting involved in to begin with... and SOOOOO far from Moria... and really, just the notion of a character who is dead before the story begins somehow managing to get a longer lifespan than ANY of the named orc villains in ANY of the rest of the films... this cretin is going to end up with more air time than Saruman, Sauron or Smaug if it keeps on like this. It is easily one of the most offensive things ever done in any of these movies.

In Reply To
...it is pretty likely that Thorin will end up being the one to kill Azog. Personally, I'd like to see Azog get killed in DoS by whomever (and preferably early on), but if we must suffer that damned anachronism until the Bo5A, I'd rather see Dain kill him (since it is Dain who kills Azog in the book), or at least Dain in tandem with Thorin.

As for the other characters, I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that PJ will stick with the book with regard to Bolg killing Thorin, and Beorn killing Bolg. Fili and Kili, I'm guessing that either Azog or Bolg will kill them, probably as they attempt to rescue Thorin.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 24 2013, 7:16am

Post #11 of 81 (1315 views)
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Some things make me wonder what some people would understand hatred for... [In reply to] Can't Post

Lindir as Master of Rivendell? Celeborn as a bachelor who fills Galadriel's functions? Frodo as a teenager at the time of The Hobbit, and going with Bilbo and the Dwarves? Ewoyn as queen of Rohan and no Theoden in the story? Ringwraiths in Moria instead of a Balrog? Gandalf goes East and one of The Blue Wizards enlists Bilbo?

The ENTIRE history of Azanulbizar, what led to it and the outcome, has been re-written here, and while I love the films overall, it seems to me there is a good deal to be irrate about wher this particular issue is concerned.

In Reply To
I really don't see what all this hate for Azog is... I mean, yes he should be dead but who cares. He's a menacing orc and a good villain. Lurtz, by comparison, was so one dimensional. And he takes up very little screen time in An Unexpected Journey. And he speaks in his native tongue. How cool is that!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 24 2013, 7:41am

Post #12 of 81 (1242 views)
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Much too early to call // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 24 2013, 8:06am

Post #13 of 81 (1224 views)
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Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

I can still se Dain killing Azog and Beorn killing Bolg.

I could see the writers liking the idea of Thorin failing on almost all levels before he redeems himself with his dying words.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Bernhardina
Rohan


Oct 24 2013, 9:08am

Post #14 of 81 (1219 views)
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One dimensional? [In reply to] Can't Post

You call Lurtz one dimensional? I agree! But so is Azog! He lost his arm and now he wants to kill Thorin. That is just... very one dimensional to me. I don't care about that he is supposed to be dead, it doesn't bother me... what bothers me is that he is soooooo boring. He just talks and does nothing, waiting for others to do his dirty work - at least Lurtz was one crazy dude who did not need a CGI-warg to look cool. Can you imagine Lurtz fighting Aragorn while riding a warg?? Crazy

No, the hate for Azog has to do with A) his character design and B) his lack of epicness while fighting Thorin in the end of AUJ (with lines as "Bring me the dwarfs head" I mean come on!!!! Get off that stupid-and-angry-looking CGI wolf and kill him yourself like a real badass would)

Sorry for "hating" on Azog, I know this thread has nothing to do with him as a character... I love the movie overall!

Boromir: ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK INTO MORDOR...

Gandalf: FLY, YOU FOOLS!


Shagrat
Gondor

Oct 24 2013, 10:33am

Post #15 of 81 (1167 views)
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True but [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't see Lurtz going to engage Boromir in hand-to-hand combat...


Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 24 2013, 12:33pm

Post #16 of 81 (1153 views)
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I agree with you, MouthofSauron [In reply to] Can't Post

For me, Azog is far more menacing than any of the Orcs in LotR, and he works perfectly well within the film adaptation. I also like his design, and in particular his deep, earth-shattering voice. I like the way he moves, which mirrors the movements of the actor who plays him.

I'm not as keen on the Warg design, but Azog himself is very well done.


In Reply To
i think Azog is a way better villain than Lurtz who was pretty one dimensional, he just took orders from Saruman. Azog on the other hand has a rich history with the dwarves and is the king of a legion of orcs in mount gundabad! He rides a white warg which is just bad ass and yes i love that he speaks in his native tongue. -Btw i couldn't get enough of his guttural laughs and cries of anger that he made at the end of AUJ!



architecthis
Lorien


Oct 24 2013, 1:09pm

Post #17 of 81 (1120 views)
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could not agree more [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know if some people have not read the source material or if some folks are so loyal to PJ that they just don't care.

I was excited to see this next film and I still am but between Azog, Beorn's design, Tauriel and other elves in Laketown, the action oriented Barrels out Bond sequence, all the extra CGI, so many (poor) design decisions and so many changes to the source material I am extremely worried.

And I do not know how anyone did not find Lurtz suitably terrifying. One dimensional? I just don't get it! He was a flesh and blood actor - to me Azog is a cartoon and not even remotely scary. Lurtz also DIES he is beheaded with a sword - this was back in the LOTR days when characters didn't fall 2000 feet and survive.

Sorry rant over.


architecthis
Lorien


Oct 24 2013, 1:14pm

Post #18 of 81 (1099 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post

No, he engaged Aragorn in hand to hand combat. I don't see your point?


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Oct 24 2013, 1:42pm

Post #19 of 81 (1117 views)
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So Legolas = bad, but Azog = good? [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue

Not having a go at you, I just find it fascinating, all the different criteria and reasons people have for deeming things "acceptable" in the adaptations.

Personally, I feel that keeping Azog alive is WAY more of a deviation than including Legolas. To me it makes perfect sense that we would encounter Thranduil's son at some point either during the "stay" in Mirkwood, or at the Bo5A. Azog, on the other hand, should have been killed 142 years before the story even started. Just knowing that about Azog really pulls me out of the film. Every time I see him onscreen, all I can think is "You're DEAD!!! Go away already!!!"


Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 24 2013, 1:49pm

Post #20 of 81 (1082 views)
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It isn't that with many people [In reply to] Can't Post

Some are just quite comfortable with viewing the books and films as two separate entities, with the films being PJ's adaptations of the books.

For me, the sequence of events works perfectly well in the films, and I don't have a problem with separating the films from the books. In the case of The Hobbit, I would certainly not have liked to have seen the cardboard-cutout Dwarves described by Tolkien in his book. I much prefer the adult story as interpreted by PJ, and would not have been interested in a children's version of the film. So all's good so far, as far as I'm concerned.

I do, however, draw the line at the introduction of a made-up character such as Tauriel. For me, that is going too far, for reasons already expressed in other threads.


In Reply To
I don't know if some people have not read the source material or if some folks are so loyal to PJ that they just don't care.



Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 24 2013, 1:53pm

Post #21 of 81 (1110 views)
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I guess my main problem with Legolas [In reply to] Can't Post

Is his weird zombie look, which threatens to pull me right out of the film. I do feel that a cameo role in the film for a Legolas that looked like the Legolas in LotR would have been fine. I have far greater problem with Tauriel, though…


In Reply To
Tongue

Not having a go at you, I just find it fascinating, all the different criteria and reasons people have for deeming things "acceptable" in the adaptations.

Personally, I feel that keeping Azog alive is WAY more of a deviation than including Legolas. To me it makes perfect sense that we would encounter Thranduil's son at some point either during the "stay" in Mirkwood, or at the Bo5A. Azog, on the other hand, should have been killed 142 years before the story even started. Just knowing that about Azog really pulls me out of the film. Every time I see him onscreen, all I can think is "You're DEAD!!! Go away already!!!"



Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Oct 24 2013, 1:56pm

Post #22 of 81 (1090 views)
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Yep... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
this cretin is going to end up with more air time than Saruman, Sauron or Smaug if it keeps on like this.


...but none of them have Azog's rippling biceps and totally bad-ass 'tude!!!

Anyway, one thing I don't get is why, everytime a discussion about Azog pops up, someone has to bring up Lurtz as if he somehow justifies Azog's presence. Both Lurtz and Azog are one-dimensional lunatics, it's true, but Lurtz was not a contradiction, while Azog is the mother of contradictions. And Lurtz knew better than to wear out his welcome Wink


architecthis
Lorien


Oct 24 2013, 1:56pm

Post #23 of 81 (1076 views)
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do not agree with you [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes the book and movies are separate, but that does not mean the director can do anything he wants and we should all just say, "well the movies and books are separate and need to be looked at separately therefore this change or that change should not bother us".

I guess I'm a little tired of that argument. The LOTR were also a separate entity and they worked perfectly well.

In my opinion the reviews speak for the movie quite well - AUJ was mediocre and I am worried DOS will also be mediocre at best.

Bringing a character back from the dead was COMPLETELY unnecessary and so is bird poop on someone's face.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 24 2013, 2:15pm

Post #24 of 81 (1053 views)
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Let's agree to differ, then [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved AUJ, barring a few minor reservations, and hope to feel the same with regard to DoS.


In Reply To
In my opinion the reviews speak for the movie quite well - AUJ was mediocre and I am worried DOS will also be mediocre at best.



Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Oct 24 2013, 2:20pm

Post #25 of 81 (1070 views)
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Tauriel [In reply to] Can't Post

I will admit that I'm a bit leery of Tauriel. In fact, at present there are two things that I think could potentially put me off of DoS - too much Azog, and too much Tauriel. The difference in my mind between the two characters is that Azog had a clear arc in Tolkien's writing, but that arc has been completely rewritten by Jackson and his team of writers. Tauriel OTOH is essentially a name and face put to a previously (mostly) anonymous character. Yes, the Captain of the Guards has been turned from a male to a female, but since the CotG was pretty much a throwaway character to begin with, Tauriel's very presence doesn't bug me the same way Azog's does. So I'm willing to give Tauriel the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

PS I agree that Legolas' look seems kind of off compared to his LotR look. Bloom getting older obviously can't be helped, but it seems they overdid the eyes a bit.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Oct 24 2013, 2:24pm)

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