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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Are PJ & Co. "lurking" on TORn's MBs & Facebook page? What a silly thought...
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g-stormcrow
Bree


Oct 21 2013, 10:47pm

Post #1 of 40 (1329 views)
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Are PJ & Co. "lurking" on TORn's MBs & Facebook page? What a silly thought... Can't Post

Let's see how ridiculous such an assertion as the above might be, shall we?

1) Arwen: During the filming of LotR, PJ & Co. inserted Arwen's character fighting alongside Aragorn's at Helm's Deep. Upon hearing this "speculative rumor", a large number of Tolkien fans (previously also known as "Ringers") made their opinions of displeasure known via almost all forms of social media, including TORn's MBs, and the "movement" gained traction. PJ & Co. subsequently edited out those scenes stating (paraphrased), "After writing and filming a lot of off-canon material for LotR, we often found that the original text worked better" while claiming that the displeasure of countless Tolkien fans (aka possible movie ticket buyers) were never a deciding factor.

2) Itaril: With the release of the character / cast list of 'The Hobbit', Tolkien fans found out that Saoirse Ronan had been cast as Itaril whom would somewhat be the equivalent of the previously unnamed Chief of the Elven Guard character in the book. Part of Itaril's character synopsis mentioned she would have a romantic connection with an elf-lord. After Tolkien fans heard of this "speculative rumor" with many fearing the elf-lord mentioned would be Legolas and that the 16 y/o Ronan would play an out-of-context, "bad-ass" female, elven warrior, they made their displeasure widely known through the same channels. Shortly thereafter, Saoirse Ronan announced she was backing out of the role stating she had "other obligations" (which, btw, would've undoubtedly been reconciled by her "people" before ever being cast for the part) and coined the phrase, "I don't like hairy feet" of which she is probably more in/famous for now than any of her acting roles.

3) Tauriel: Shortly after Ronan's departure from the project, PJ & Co. announced that Eve Lily had been cast for the part of Tauriel, whom will now portray the Chief of the Elven Guard's character. Now here's the part, if you've been paying attention, that's really telling: PJ made it a point to specifically deny those "speculative rumors" while stating that Tauriel's character will have no romantic connection to Legolas. (Sounds like somebody's lurking...) At that time, many Ringers (notice that at this point I no longer refer to them as Tolkien fans) firmly stated (in speculation, btw) that Tauriel was not a re-write of Itaril's character despite obvious evidence to the contrary.

4) I <3 Hot Dwarves.: After releasing press photos of Thorin & Co. which portray the king and many other dwarves with uncharacteristically short or non-existent beards, Tolkien fans became upset by their obvious appearance divergences from specifically described characters and their cultures in the book. In an apparent attempt to explain the divergences while assuaging fan reaction to them, PJ & Richard Armitage made many statements to the press regarding "the need for the audience to connect with the characters and for the actor's facial movements & expressions to not be hidden by prosthetics. (An aside, topical question: Do you think Ian McKellen's substantial beard prosthetics in LotR hampered your ability to "connect" with his portrayal of Gandalf's character? Yeah, I didn't think so either.) Phillipa Boyens also made it a point in one SDCC interview to state that she & Fran "ganged up" on PJ to make Thorin the hunky, dwarf king they & so many fangirls have fallen in love with.

5) Tauriel re-visited: After a great deal of Tolkien fans became upset by Tauriel's addition, E. Lily began giving interviews in which she made it a point to state how much of a Tolkien purist she is (lol) and, despite taking the non-canon role, believes that PJ, Fran & Phillipa know Tolkien more than anybody else. Lily also stated (paraphrased), "When watching a movie dominated by a male cast, people (especially women) feel a relief when they finally see a woman character". Phillipa Boyens then started talking double-speak in her interviews stating something to the effect of, "We didn't add Tauriel as a pandering gimmick. We felt that there wasn't enough female energy to attract audiences so we invented Tauriel." (Doesn't that sound like the exact definition of a pandering gimmick?)

6) Happy Hobbits: God Bless those two girls but they are the exact embodiment of everything I believe is wrong about these vapid 'Hobbit' movies. They are obviously the "demographic" PJ & Co. are so desperately trying to excite without any regard to Tolkien's words, works or fans. I've done a little research and found that these girls have the same unique last name as one of the movie's writers. (Coincidence? Not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were related.) These girls honestly remind me of the young girls who were planted by the record company at Beatles' early shows to scream & pee their pants in extreme excitement so that others, through herd mentality, would do & think the same. They interestingly enough came out of left field about a year ago at a very convenient time when fan anticipation of AUJ was significantly wavering. They've also named themselves after the dwarves they think are the "hottest".(gag!) They've made fan videos of themselves watching trailers for AUJ & DOS which depict them overly excited & giddy like schoolgirls watching Twilight for the first time. "Somehow" their video got into the hands of PJ & Co. whom then used it as a social media "love-fest-o-gram" with Lily, Bloom & Pace all recorded enjoying their giddy, schoolgirl excitement and giving their giddy, schoolgirl reactions. Of course, everything comes full-circle with the Happy Hobbits filming their reactions to the cast's reactions to their reactions of the initial trailer. The whole (impromptu?) scenario has apparently made every Ringer & giddy schoolgirl wish they were these two fans, created more "buzz" for the movies and affirmed for everyone, especially giddy schoolgirls, that these movie's are "Kid Tested & Twilight Approved". Obviously, PJ & Co. weren't lurking then, right?

7) Tauriel re-romanced: Lily & Aiden confirmed in interviews that Kili will have some "feelings" for Tauriel. The DOS trailer confirms, through Thranduil's dialogue, that Legolas indeed has some "feelings" for Tauriel, as well. Now when they use the words "feelings" make no mistake, they don't mean the plutonic type of "feelings" because there would be no need to mention such obvious "feelings" if they were only that. Also, many people have stated that PJ & Co. have created a false "romance" between Legolas & Tauriel in the trailers to attract that type of movie audience demographic.

Sincere & obvious question: Do you really think after all of these examples of "fan action / subsequent cast reaction" that PJ & Co. aren't lurking, either through personal assistants or PR personnel, to find out the "temperature" of opinions from both the Ringer & Tolkien fan demographics? One thing is certain for sure: if someone claims that PJ & Co. are only giving the impression of a Tauriel-Legolas romance in the trailers to bring in a certain type of fan demographic, they cannot then back-pedal all of that by saying PJ & Co. do not care & are not influenced by fan reactions. Fan reactions to these movies are voiced through countless social media & discussion groups, not the least of which is TORn's MBs & Facebook page.

I think it is obvious that PJ & Co. are definitely "lurking" on social media to some degree despite what others would conveniently have you believe and then subsequently disbelieve when it is beneficial to their biased opinion(s) and possible agenda(s).

Think about all of that but, most of all, think for yourself.

Gandalf receives no welcome at all when he re-enters Meduseld. He stands before King Theoden perceived to be a meddler, trouble-maker, and bearer of woes. Such has been the success of Grima Wormtongue.

"Ill news is an ill guest."


MechaGodzilla
Rivendell

Oct 21 2013, 11:02pm

Post #2 of 40 (677 views)
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A lot of things point in that direction, yes [In reply to] Can't Post

And if that is the case, I hope they're paying attention to the people voicing their concerns regarding Bolg's role and design in the coming two movies, something I've noticed is becoming increasingly more frequent. Angelic


morro91
Bree

Oct 21 2013, 11:07pm

Post #3 of 40 (651 views)
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Probably not, especially when they're busy [In reply to] Can't Post

They would have PR people who's job is to do that sort of thing, (include remove any sudden leaks).

Likely PJ & co. do have some knowledge of what the fan reactions are, whether they do the 'lurking' themselves is debatable.


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 21 2013, 11:26pm

Post #4 of 40 (642 views)
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I do have to say... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I may not get your overall point and am a bit confused by some seemingly aggressive lines in your little essay. Was there a pre-history to his thread? It sounds like it is very important to you to prove some sort of fan-hysteria can have an influence on the movies, but do not seem to be able to get your final point. Thanks in advance for clarification ;)



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


g-stormcrow
Bree


Oct 21 2013, 11:37pm

Post #5 of 40 (588 views)
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True. I guess the appropriate first words to the OT would've been "Were" instead of "Are" [In reply to] Can't Post

When it would've mattered & possibly made a difference.

Gandalf receives no welcome at all when he re-enters Meduseld. He stands before King Theoden perceived to be a meddler, trouble-maker, and bearer of woes. Such has been the success of Grima Wormtongue.

"Ill news is an ill guest."

(This post was edited by g-stormcrow on Oct 21 2013, 11:38pm)


ecthelionsbeard
Lorien

Oct 22 2013, 12:02am

Post #6 of 40 (578 views)
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I have strongly suspected... [In reply to] Can't Post

...for some time now that Pete and gang have lurked around here. To what degree is up for debate but I have little doubt there has been lurking going on. The original poster makes some good points. In terms of romance in these films, (film one had none which is great) I am fine with a one way romance between Kili and Tauriel. It's reminiscent of Gimli's fling with Galadriel and would be adorable. But a thing between Tauriel and Legolas... I'm trying to fight back the vomit. Please dear God. May it not be so..


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Oct 22 2013, 12:20am

Post #7 of 40 (524 views)
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So [In reply to] Can't Post

I am in agreement with you that the filmmakers have probably monitored the ToRn messageboards as a good indicator of fan enthusiasm. I don't understand what the point of the post is though. If the rumblings of the fans got Arwen removed from Helm's Deep then I'd call that a victory for the fans. Lurking is one thing, but acting as some sort of mastermind for the Happy Hobbits? Give me a break. The publicity he gave them no doubt encouraged their enthusiasm (which is, in my opinion, great). Have you actually watched any of their videos? I'd say each one is probably infused with more of a Tolkienesque love of comfort and nature than many a ToRn thread and far and away more true to the spirit of the books than what I envision when I think of the "fanboy" label.

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


g-stormcrow
Bree


Oct 22 2013, 12:20am

Post #8 of 40 (534 views)
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The final point is the last line of the OT [In reply to] Can't Post

The pre-history has been well-outlined in the OT and is obvious, as well.

It does appear that others get my overall point so I'm unsure if you're actually confused or just playing coy. Tell you what, I'll let you know when the book is published. ;)

Please think of it this way: if you don't believe any of my "little essay" on "fan-hysteria" is interesting, important, or especially relevant to you, feel free to disregard it all.

Best wishes.

Gandalf receives no welcome at all when he re-enters Meduseld. He stands before King Theoden perceived to be a meddler, trouble-maker, and bearer of woes. Such has been the success of Grima Wormtongue.

"Ill news is an ill guest."


demnation
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 12:31am

Post #9 of 40 (536 views)
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I was (mostly) with you [In reply to] Can't Post

Until you decided to throw the conspiracy theory blanket over the Happy Hobbit girls. To be frank, what you are imply there sounds just a tad ridiculous; especially since you don't provide any real evidence other than they may be related to one of the writers ( But guess which one! Because I'm not telling!) and that "they came out of nowhere." I get it. I really do. Some of us are rather frustrated how PJ and Co. have played with fans emotions over the years. But it is to be expected, after all they are only human.They make mistakes. And it is nice to remind certain subsets of fans that some of us actually do care about Tolkien. But if you are going to throw around such baseless accusations, please provide a little more concrete evidence. Please.

(And please understand that this is a respectful disagreement. I have no desire to be confrontational.)

"In the beginning the Universe was created.This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.Ē Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Oct 22 2013, 1:02am

Post #10 of 40 (495 views)
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You maybe onto something [In reply to] Can't Post

I was a little skeptical, because if they were lurking, they'd know that some of us are really unhappy with not only the addition of Tauriel, but her having a romance with Legolas. They haven't changed that! But after reading your whole post, a lot of this sounds too much to be coincedental. Perhaps they are lurking around.
I like the Twilight comment you made. While I enjoyed AUJ, after seeing the DoS trailer, I'm beginning to think they are aiming The Hobbit at a Twilight-approved audience. And I hate Twilgith. Pirate
If they are lurking, I betcha you I'm on their Public Enemies #1 list. I haven't exactly been quiet about my opinions, especially in regards to Tauriel.
My apologies to David Bowie, I've used the name of his messianic alien character, and now the name has become that of a villain. Ziggy Stardust is supposed to be a hero.


g-stormcrow
Bree


Oct 22 2013, 1:08am

Post #11 of 40 (473 views)
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It was an open ended question [In reply to] Can't Post

As for understanding the point, just acknowledging there's even a small point in any of that is what I would consider a great leap forward here on TORn. Once that one point is acknowledged, the questions of possible other "victories" for Tolkien fans come to mind along with perhaps a closer look at how events transpired as well as how some yet may transpire.

Sure, the Happy Hobbits are probably legit (which still doesn't eliminate the possibility of their fandom being manipulated) though when I think of them I'm unfortunately reminded of how sincere Eve Lily seemed when she stated to everyone how much of a purist she was.

Anyone who sincerely believes they have been misguided, manipulated and/or lied to before by an individual or a group of individuals would be less than wise to take things they subsequently do & say completely at face value.

Tolkien might even say that was in the spirit of the books, too.

Gandalf receives no welcome at all when he re-enters Meduseld. He stands before King Theoden perceived to be a meddler, trouble-maker, and bearer of woes. Such has been the success of Grima Wormtongue.

"Ill news is an ill guest."


g-stormcrow
Bree


Oct 22 2013, 1:13am

Post #12 of 40 (474 views)
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Hence the OT's first line, "Let's see how ridiculous such an assertion..." [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Gandalf receives no welcome at all when he re-enters Meduseld. He stands before King Theoden perceived to be a meddler, trouble-maker, and bearer of woes. Such has been the success of Grima Wormtongue.

"Ill news is an ill guest."

(This post was edited by g-stormcrow on Oct 22 2013, 1:14am)


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Oct 22 2013, 1:16am

Post #13 of 40 (477 views)
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I refuse to confirm or deny that I am one of the writers. Now where did I park my Gulf Stream Jet. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


demnation
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 1:43am

Post #14 of 40 (455 views)
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Sure, I suppose [In reply to] Can't Post

But to my mind, speculating about whether the creative people behind these films are testing out fan reaction is completely different from accusing (explicitly or implied) two fans of being pawns in a massive, manipulative corporate game. Not to mention the opening line of the OT is referring specifically to whether PJ and Co are "lurking."

"In the beginning the Universe was created.This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.Ē Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 2:32am

Post #15 of 40 (452 views)
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I believe the girls/young ladies said they are TheoneRing staffers. So no I am trying [In reply to] Can't Post

to figure out who amonst our alias screennames they may be. lol

In Reply To
I am in agreement with you that the filmmakers have probably monitored the ToRn messageboards as a good indicator of fan enthusiasm. I don't understand what the point of the post is though. If the rumblings of the fans got Arwen removed from Helm's Deep then I'd call that a victory for the fans. Lurking is one thing, but acting as some sort of mastermind for the Happy Hobbits? Give me a break. The publicity he gave them no doubt encouraged their enthusiasm (which is, in my opinion, great). Have you actually watched any of their videos? I'd say each one is probably infused with more of a Tolkienesque love of comfort and nature than many a ToRn thread and far and away more true to the spirit of the books than what I envision when I think of the "fanboy" label.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 2:33am

Post #16 of 40 (417 views)
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Ziggy IS a hero. Damn any name borrowing goons who follow after. lol [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I was a little skeptical, because if they were lurking, they'd know that some of us are really unhappy with not only the addition of Tauriel, but her having a romance with Legolas. They haven't changed that! But after reading your whole post, a lot of this sounds too much to be coincedental. Perhaps they are lurking around.
I like the Twilight comment you made. While I enjoyed AUJ, after seeing the DoS trailer, I'm beginning to think they are aiming The Hobbit at a Twilight-approved audience. And I hate Twilgith. Pirate
If they are lurking, I betcha you I'm on their Public Enemies #1 list. I haven't exactly been quiet about my opinions, especially in regards to Tauriel.
My apologies to David Bowie, I've used the name of his messianic alien character, and now the name has become that of a villain. Ziggy Stardust is supposed to be a hero.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 2:35am

Post #17 of 40 (418 views)
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*taps Elendil on the shoulder firmly, and looks out from beneath the bushy brows of one of my Earthy incarnations* [In reply to] Can't Post

I need a word with you! lmao LaughTongue

In Reply To


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Oct 22 2013, 3:25am

Post #18 of 40 (435 views)
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Two Tauriel howlers [In reply to] Can't Post

Most of this essay, while entertaining, reminds me of those conspiracy theories that try to argue that men never landed on the moon: assumptions lumped together with dodgy factoids, opinions, and things that just seem to have been pulled out of thin air. Others have pointed out the howler of the Hobbit Girls (surname Rice), so I wanted to debunk two others related to Tauriel:

  • Evangeline Lilly has never said anything concerning Kili and Tauriel. Aiden Turner has one quote that denies anything happens between Kili and Tauriel.
  • Evangeline did not suddenly avow to being a Tolkien purist after fan reactions to Tauriel on this (or other) web sites. The interviews you read recently were actually done a long time ago, before the 3-movie split, but were suppressed for more than a year because they had some spoilers for DoS. Thus the interviews of Orlando Bloom, Luke Evans, and Evangeline long predate their publication in the past week. Note that in that interview Evangeline says she never did any scenes with Ian McKellen or Martin Freeman. However, we know from the last vlog that Tauriel and Legolas do meet Gandalf and Bilbo in Dale, a scene apparently added in pickups. So the writers have expanded Tauriel's role over the past year, not diminished it.


Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Oct 22 2013, 4:08am

Post #19 of 40 (413 views)
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PJ and New Line were one of the pioneers of direct studio/fan interaction [In reply to] Can't Post

...starting with fans like TORn's own Tehanu being escorted off the set, only to be invited back for first-hand looks. That evolved into the PJ, WETA, etc. chats, AICN stories, 'embeds' of fan site staff, and the unprecedented (at the time) sending of exclusive video blogs about the making of King Kong to TORn's site KongisKing.net. Other studios saw the benefits in terms of good will, loyalty and, of course, sales of movie tickets and movie-related merchandise, and have followed suit. It's not a conspiracy, it's just plain good business and good marketing. They're not trying to hide it, they're openly taking credit for it! Bottom line: if it *is* a conspiracy, it's the worst kept secret I can think of. Laugh

Do the studios monitor fan websites? Of course they do! However, now that they have their own social networking pages, they get plenty of fan feedback there which suggests to me that they don't have to look as far and as often as they used to. Why should they monitor a few hundred posts on the Hobbit board each week when they get thousands of feedback replies on their own sites?

That said, TORn has never denied a good working relationship with New Line, PJ and now WB, or even that they visit our site from time to time. When GDT left the production as director, they announced it in the form of a letter to TORn , for heaven's sake. It would be pointless to deny that they *ever* visit here. However, we do encourage people to be realistic about how often they visit, who visits, and why. To that end, as the "Courtesy of our Halls" sticky at the top of this board also indicate, we don't appreciate TORn being used as someone's idea of a bully pulpit to try to influence the production. In all honesty, the studios are much more likely to have someone looking for violations of copyrights, or scans of toys or books that haven't been officially released, than they are taking notes about what the fans hate and what they love (except, perhaps, to market said toys). Not that they *never* take note of such things but, let's face it, at this point that ship sailed long ago as the movies are all but in the can.

Of course, as a staff member of the site, I could just be trying to brainwash all of you, mwahaha! Evil But, if you take a step back, and deconstruct all the supposed theories, I think you'll find much more coincidence than conspiracy.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Oct 22 2013, 4:34am)


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 22 2013, 7:36am

Post #20 of 40 (314 views)
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It actually was a question. [In reply to] Can't Post

But whatever. Probably I just did not get how you imho tried to force some sort of agenda into coincidence and normal script/movie developing.

We will certainly have to agree to disagree deeply here.



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 8:40am

Post #21 of 40 (332 views)
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I do think for myself.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... worked out long ago that no one else was going to do it for me!

I think your tone is too aggressive. You seem to have an axe to grind against someone, or everyone, because you don't like the film. And conspiracy theories are so seductive, so easy to insinuate into any discussion, like dropping ink into water......

Sorry, but I don't buy it. The production has a good relationship with TORn, I don't think anyone has ever denied that. There's probably someone employed to watch the media in general. But it seems obvious to me that 'PJ & Co' are far too busy making a film to hang around internet forums.


Kelvarhin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 9:10am

Post #22 of 40 (296 views)
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Well.. [In reply to] Can't Post

  

Quote
the Happy Hobbits are probably legit


The girls are legit, maybe you should check out their youtube channel.

They are members of TORn's staff and are two of the most lovely people you could ever wish to meet.Smile

Bag ENZ Home of the Hobbit *with thanks to cameragod ;D*


One by one they faded, and fell into shadow...

One book to rule them all
One book to find them
One book to bring them all
And in TORn bind them
In the land of TORnadoes...where the brilliant play



Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Oct 22 2013, 10:01am

Post #23 of 40 (270 views)
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But do you accept bribes? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


RosieBaggins
Rivendell


Oct 22 2013, 11:27am

Post #24 of 40 (264 views)
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I think it would be silly not to. [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien fans are going to be a huge portion of ticket buyers. They would most definitely not want to make us too disappointed , especially the portion who has already proved that if we are unhappy with the movie, we would talk about it, and influence other fans. I suspect they have PR people who lurk on our sites frequently.

I am the Voice of Books photo Voiceofbooks.gif
Gutenberg photo gutenberg_blog2.gif Librivox photo PD-librivox.pngBook Liberaion photo Book-liberation.png


Noria
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 12:36pm

Post #25 of 40 (257 views)
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Altaira and Dormouse, I agree with you both. [In reply to] Can't Post

Some lowly assistant probably monitors various boards for anything too out of line, getting a good laugh at the same time I imagine. But I really doubt that Peter Jackson is searching for and listening to fan input. There is no agreement amongst the fans for one thing.

So I donít really believe that the opinions of the relatively few Tolkien fans, like me, who are fanatical enough to post on message boards actually influence the film makers. They donít really have to bother about pleasing book fans, most of whom long ago decided what they think of Peter Jacksonís movies and whether they will see them or not. Anyway, it seems that even people who hate the previous movie(s) will see the next ones, if only to criticize. So why should PJ change anything? We all will buy our tickets regardless of what he does. He needs to attract and please the much larger segment of the movie going public who never have and never will read the books.

I do love conspiracy theories.

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