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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
AUJ Extended Edition - New Scenes Discussion *HEAVY SPOILERS INSIDE*
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DjU
Lorien

Oct 22 2013, 1:39am

Post #1 of 72 (2946 views)
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AUJ Extended Edition - New Scenes Discussion *HEAVY SPOILERS INSIDE* Can't Post

Forgive me for starting a new thread, I know there is one talking about the digital release of the EE but there are many people in that thread that are just discussing the availability of the product and many that don't yet want spoilers. So I thought it might be best to keep all those spoilers inside one thread? At least they have warning from the beginning of the thread this way.

I briskly whizzed through a bit of the EE and have listed the scenes so far that are extra;

Dwarves & Thranduil and White jewels – story of a rift between the Dwarves and Elves – a recation shot of Bilbo when he laments at why friendships are lost. 45 secs

Black Arrows and Ballistas at Dale (presumably manned by Girion)
A very brief shot of a rack of Black arrows is in
Then the swooping shot of Smaug (seen in the German EE trailer)
followed by two big shots of a man (presumamly Girion) in a Ballista (one seen in the DoS trailer and another from the reverse angle)
And then a shot of the big black arrow bouncing off Smaug

This segment is inserted roughly between the shots of Smaug firey attack on the main bridge entrance into Dale and the Child with the doll, Bilbos line "Such wanton death was dealt that day" is now played over this bit (and one shot of people panicking and fleeing has been jiggled about to appear during the *new* bit instead of where it was previously but is about 1/2 second, you'd never notice that!) 6-7 seconds

Old Took party and young Bilbo (however the last bit of Bilbo narration is altered in a similar way to the FotR EE was altered – Bilbo doesn't say “by the will of a wizard...” but mentions it was the “beginning of a friendship that last his life” )
Fireworks Starts on the bang of Thorin working as a Sword-smith 30 secs

Hobbiton, Bilbo buying a fish, talking to Master Worrywart and avoiding Gandalf. 1min 20secs

More Bilbo reacting to his pantry being raided and a scene about Bifur's axe and Oin's deafness 21 secs

I skipped leaving Hobbiton to the the Warg Chase as I wasn't expecting any extra scenes - only checking the Azanulbizar one my way through.

Extra scene between Bilbo and Gandalf during the walk through the hidden passage to Rivendell.
Bilbo ask where are they and Gandalf noting that Bilbo can “feel the magic”. 21 seconds

After that we get to the Rivendell Scenes which were posted here earlier today.

I'm off to continue watching from there onwards.


Metal Slug
Rivendell

Oct 22 2013, 2:35am

Post #2 of 72 (1205 views)
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Keep us updated [In reply to] Can't Post

I like how you give us time approximations.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 2:39am

Post #3 of 72 (1258 views)
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I am so glad you opened this. I wasn't going to be the rogue. LOVED KILI AND THE ELVES!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ah! I wish it had been in the theatrical. And the little saucy, suggestive jaunt Dwalin does in the midst of his mockery!!! PRICELESS! I laughed out loud literally for an entire minute.

I also really enjoyed Bofur's take on the Merry Old Inn song, though I still like the way Frodo sings the "there they brew the beer so brown," line better from the Bakshi animated version. That said, I LOVE the inflections Bofur starts with, puts on "beneath an old grey hill" and the parallell lines, and Dori's air fiddling. LOVED it. Though I wish they hadn't thrown all the damned food. That seemed tacky and pointlessly disrespectful.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


DjU
Lorien

Oct 22 2013, 3:19am

Post #4 of 72 (1374 views)
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part two! [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is the second part, apologies for the briefness of the notes, I made them whilst watching.


Rivendell scenes - posted here earlier

Kili badly flirting, Nori stealing, Bofur's song, food fight.
Bilbo exploring, Narsil, convo with Elrond, Dwarf bathing

forgot to time

After Bombur breaks the bench it pans to Bilbo walking up some stairs where he overhears Gandalf and Elrond talking so listens in.
Gandalf tells Elrond to "trust he knows what he is doing". Elrond Questions that.
As the talk turns to the strategic pros and cons of dealing with Smaug the camera slow pans to reveal Thorin behind Bilbo, Bilbo notices and glances at him, then the talk turns to Thror, Thrain, Thorin and Madness.
Bilbo clearly feels awkward, the last few shots focus on Thorin, Gandalf finish their walk and talk witht the scene seen in the TE version on the way up the stairs to the White Council 1min 10

White Council - Gandalf brings up the Seven dwarf rings and that the last is unaccounted for, lost with Thrain. Sauruman dismisses this and says it is usless with out the "One". Swept out to sea. 48secs

Goblin Town scenes - posted here earlier

Goblin King song, more introduction, Nori's stolen stuff, Bofur's bad explanation.

~ 3mins on the nose

I'm 99% confident there is no new footage after the point where the Goblin Scribe heads off down on his zipline so Riddles in the Dark to the Carrock is unaltered. (From that point onwards the Time Remain started to sync up on my TE and EE versions.)

So no extra Goblin Scribe scene, No extra riddles, didn't appear to be any extra escape from Goblin Town despite a few odd unused shots being in trailers and TV spots.

However it is late here! (4am) So don't fully take my word for the last bit!


(This post was edited by DjU on Oct 22 2013, 3:25am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 3:24am

Post #5 of 72 (1110 views)
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I love the fireworks scene in the German trailer. The look and colour are so wonderfully evocative [In reply to] Can't Post

of an idyllic "olden" time. I cannot wait to see it on a large screen in proper format.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 3:28am

Post #6 of 72 (1210 views)
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I really don't get this business with Saruman suggesting that Sauron cannot use the 7 without the one. It doesn't make sense. [In reply to] Can't Post

clearly the Dwarves were able to use the Seven, and they did not have the One. The Nine Rings were at work with the One lost. The Three Elf Rings were at work, and were ONLY wielded whilst the one was not in Sauron's keeping, so the notion that gathering the Great Rings they would still be useless is silly. He needed the One to control the others whilst they were in keeping outside of his own, but he didn't need it to make use of any Ring he had captured.

In Reply To
Here is the second part, apologies for the briefness of the notes, I made them whilst watching.


Rivendell scenes - posted here earlier

Kili badly flirting, Nori stealing, Bofur's song, food fight.
Bilbo exploring, Narsil, convo with Elrond, Dwarf bathing

forgot to time

After Bombur breaks the bench it pans to Bilbo walking up some stairs where he overhears Gandalf and Elrond talking so listens in.
Gandalf tells Elrond to "trust he knows what he is doing". Elrond Questions that.
As the talk turns to the strategic pros and cons of dealing with Smaug the camera slow pans to reveal Thorin behind Bilbo, Bilbo notices and glances at him, then the talk turns to Thror, Thrain, Thorin and Madness.
Bilbo clearly feels awkward, the last few shots focus on Thorin, Gandalf finish their walk and talk witht the scene seen in the TE version on the way up the stairs to the White Council 1min 10

White Council - Gandalf brings up the Seven dwarf rings and that the last is unaccounted for, lost with Thrain. Sauruman dismisses this and says it is usless with out the "One". Swept out to sea. 48secs

Goblin Town scenes - posted here earlier

Goblin King song, more introduction, Nori's stolen stuff, Bofur's bad explanation.

~ 3mins on the nose

I'm 99% confident there is no new footage after the point where the Goblin Scribe heads off down on his zipline so Riddles in the Dark to the Carrock is unaltered. (From that point onwards the Time Remain started to sync up on my TE and EE versions.)

So no extra Goblin Scribe scene, No extra riddles, didn't appear to be any extra escape from Goblin Town despite a few odd unused shots being in trailers and TV spots.

However it is late here! (4am) So don't fully take my word for the last bit!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


DjU
Lorien

Oct 22 2013, 3:31am

Post #7 of 72 (1208 views)
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More on The Young Bilbo scene [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
of an idyllic "olden" time. I cannot wait to see it on a large screen in proper format.


There are a few other quick shots of fireworks, and the jist of the scene is the Young Bilbo playfighting with the wooden sword, attacking Gandalfs leg. Belladonna running over to stop him! Old Took (Dan Henna) laughing away at the fireworks.

You never see Gandalf's face, just from behind and from below the waist. Obviously to keep up the mysteriousness of Gandalf when he arrives on Bilbo's front step.

Bilbo's narration, talks of Dragons just being make believe in the Shire


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 3:34am

Post #8 of 72 (1195 views)
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That's my biggest complaint about Jackson's take on the Dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

Jackson treats them as uncouth buffoons, rather than the noble and dignified race that Tolkien developed them into. There is a taste of that in Jackson's version, and I don't mind them being fun-loving and irreverent to the Elves, and very tough, but the uncouthness goes too far. However, I do enjoy the song quite a bit.

I'm sure you love this bit: "Gandalf tells Elrond to "trust he knows what he is doing". Elrond Questions that." Wink

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Oct 22 2013, 3:38am

Post #9 of 72 (1116 views)
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perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

He could use the 7 to procure more gold, but he cannot use it for dominion of others, which is what he desires?

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


DjU
Lorien

Oct 22 2013, 3:44am

Post #10 of 72 (1167 views)
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Cultured Dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a line from Gandalf that says at the dinner table in Rivendell "these are cultured Dwarves, from the line of Durin" and then it cuts to Nori complaining about the music and stealing.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 22 2013, 3:47am

Post #11 of 72 (1113 views)
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I saw that clip when it was still available, and I noted that line [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it was pretty ironic. It was almost like PJ was goofing on himself.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Faleel
Rohan

Oct 22 2013, 3:54am

Post #12 of 72 (1076 views)
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M [In reply to] Can't Post

More like gagging on himself.


DarkJackal
Rohan


Oct 22 2013, 4:09am

Post #13 of 72 (1045 views)
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Thank Mahal! [In reply to] Can't Post

At least there *is* some mention of the dwarf rings!

The Hobbit Photo Gallery


Bladerunner
Gondor


Oct 22 2013, 4:15am

Post #14 of 72 (1048 views)
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i have more of a problem with the implication that the other six are "accounted for" [In reply to] Can't Post

Four were lost and unaccounted for, and two were repo'd by Sauron, but since Sauron was presumably defeated then even those two would be unaccounted as far as Gandalf would have known at the time. So actually he should have stated that six were unaccounted and the seventh was still in Thrain's possession. Unless in movie timeline, when Gandalf got the key from Thrain, he noticed that Thrain did not have the ring.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 4:19am

Post #15 of 72 (1073 views)
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Agreed entirely. And it is mostly encompassed in the belching and throwing food. [In reply to] Can't Post

Everything else is fine, but why would they throw food? And I find it hard to imagine the concientous dwarves who, in both the films and the text, clean up every inch of clutter they cause in Bilbo's home, breaking and burning the furniture of anyone who is hosting them as guests, Elves included.

The Innkeepers Cat song scene is WONDERFUL... except for them throwing food. Why is that neccessary? It is enough, as far as conveying how fun loving and buttoned down they can be, as compared to Elves (who, to be honest, are a little too buttoned up and stick up the rear-end when compared to the Elves who sang idle tunes and chuckled at the serious attitude and long beard of one Thorin son of Thrain), that they complain about the music, and that Bofur jumps up on the table and begins his singing to an eager and animated chorus. That WORKS perfectly. The food tossing just says, "also, dwarves are unruly jerks." It doesn't ruin the scene, the moment is too good for that, but it certainly damages it and detracts rather than improves.

Haruumpf to Elrond's questioning. In the end though, the old, gray Pilgrim is proved correct on all the key fronts, and that matters. lol

In Reply To
Jackson treats them as uncouth buffoons, rather than the noble and dignified race that Tolkien developed them into. There is a taste of that in Jackson's version, and I don't mind them being fun-loving and irreverent to the Elves, and very tough, but the uncouthness goes too far. However, I do enjoy the song quite a bit.

I'm sure you love this bit: "Gandalf tells Elrond to "trust he knows what he is doing". Elrond Questions that." Wink


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 4:24am

Post #16 of 72 (1024 views)
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Right, but that still counts as him using them. They are not useless, and he likely could do [In reply to] Can't Post

even more with them than the dwarves, understanding them better, but not being able to use them to his fullest desire is very different from them being useless, and Saruman would have to know it.

In Reply To
He could use the 7 to procure more gold, but he cannot use it for dominion of others, which is what he desires?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 4:28am

Post #17 of 72 (1003 views)
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The dragons could still have consumed four. But three at least should be unaccounted for. I understand the [In reply to] Can't Post

desire to make a bigger deal about the loss of Thrain's/Durin's Ring, but it seems to me that it might have been better to play it up as the greatest of The Seven, rather than the only one potentially taken.

In Reply To
Four were lost and unaccounted for, and two were repo'd by Sauron, but since Sauron was presumably defeated then even those two would be unaccounted as far as Gandalf would have known at the time. So actually he should have stated that six were unaccounted and the seventh was still in Thrain's possession. Unless in movie timeline, when Gandalf got the key from Thrain, he noticed that Thrain did not have the ring.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Bladerunner
Gondor


Oct 22 2013, 4:28am

Post #18 of 72 (1084 views)
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yes, I agree. I think Jackson lacked subtlety in his attempt to capture their irreverence. [In reply to] Can't Post

I had joked about how the scenes in Rivendell would play before the first films hit theaters, but I always thought that those types of over the top stuff would be left for the spoof films (eg Scary Movie, Epic Movie, and their ilk) to mine.



Oleander Took
Rivendell


Oct 22 2013, 5:16am

Post #19 of 72 (1073 views)
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Dwarves & Thranduil and White jewels: The Nauglamir?! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm still hitting myself in the end, i also thought those were just white jewels but when i saw a cap it had the shape of a necklace and then watching the scene in movement it hit me, were they showing Thranduil The Nauglamir?!

"There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something."


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Oct 22 2013, 7:20am

Post #20 of 72 (881 views)
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Signed [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ took it too far. Nothing irrevocable was done, but it did leave a bad aftertaste. We're not that dense, PJ, we understand their cultural differences from less.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Oct 22 2013, 7:23am

Post #21 of 72 (929 views)
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Nauglamir in spirit, like the Arkenstone is a Silmaril in spirit? [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ can't come out and say they're the Nauglamir, because he doesn't have the rights to the Silm. But at least they're certainly inspired by the famed necklace, and as long as nothing contradictory is said about the issue, they can be Nauglamir in our minds. Which is incredibly cool: a piece of Silmarillion on film!

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 7:27am

Post #22 of 72 (882 views)
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In the spoof movie... [In reply to] Can't Post

they will probably begin urinating on things. And Elves. Shocked

In Reply To
I had joked about how the scenes in Rivendell would play before the first films hit theaters, but I always thought that those types of over the top stuff would be left for the spoof films (eg Scary Movie, Epic Movie, and their ilk) to mine.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 22 2013, 7:29am

Post #23 of 72 (879 views)
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Could Saruman mean... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that possessing or finding Thrain's ring will not help the Wise much against Sauron (if Gandalf's theory of Evil rising would be true)?



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 7:30am

Post #24 of 72 (894 views)
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Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it is a nice nod (or a naughty nod lol), and I think it works well. I always liked the notion that their was interaction between the dwarves of Erebor and the Elves of Mirkwood, just as there was traffic and friendship between the Elves and the Lake Men.

It is one of the reasons why I did not entirely discredit the talk of Thranduil expounding upon Orcrist as being legendery for having been used by some prince of Gondolin to fend off a Balrog. As long as neither the Elf nor the specific Balrog are named, it remains within the bounds of what can be either found or easily inferred from the legally accessible texts.

In Reply To
PJ can't come out and say they're the Nauglamir, because he doesn't have the rights to the Silm. But at least they're certainly inspired by the famed necklace, and as long as nothing contradictory is said about the issue, they can be Nauglamir in our minds. Which is incredibly cool: a piece of Silmarillion on film!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 22 2013, 7:32am

Post #25 of 72 (870 views)
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Not if this follows the lines from the B clips on youtube from earlier in the year. [In reply to] Can't Post

Where he says, "The Seven are of no use to him, he needs the One!" A hyperbolic and misleading statement.

In Reply To
... that possessing or finding Thrain's ring will not help the Wise much against Sauron (if Gandalf's theory of Evil rising would be true)?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

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