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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Major EE Spoilers
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Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2013, 7:23pm

Post #51 of 75 (869 views)
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I wonder if [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili's desire for a woman with a "good beard" is due to his wishing to make up for his own?

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Oct 16 2013, 8:03pm

Post #52 of 75 (782 views)
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Hereditary or a species trait... [In reply to] Can't Post

  

As I understand it, whilst Dwarves have a natural affinity and desire for gold, it was the Seven Rings that Sauron gave to the Dwarven lords that triggered that avarice...

Gandalf mentions a rumour that the seven hoards of the dwarves began each with a single golden ring, and although the Dwarves used their rings to increase their treasure, Tolkien does not explain how the rings accomplished this (save for a reference that the rings "need gold to breed gold").The main power of the Seven on their wearers was to excite their sense of avarice. According to UT,the rings amplified their wearer's natural skills and desire of dominion which as a consequence, they became greedy and exceedingly rich; the Rings gave them the power to multiply whatever they mined. The wearers did not become invisible, did not get extended life-spans, nor succumb directly to Sauron's control though he could still influence them to anger and greed.

Since the last of the Seven was taken from Thrain by Sauron in Dol Guldur, Thorin cannot have been tainted by the power of that Ring. His natural Dwarven desire for precious metals and jewels was exacerbated by Smaug's contamination of the hoard:

",,But also he did not reckon with the power that gold has upon which a dragon has long brooded, nor with dwarvish hearts. Long hours in the past days Thorin had spent in the treasury, and the lust of it was heavy on him. Though he had hunted chiefly for the Arkenstone, yet he had an eye for many another wonderful thing that was lying there, about which were wound old memories of the labours and the sorrows of his race."

Dragon hoards are often curse in myth and fairytale...and similarly Tolkien uses this device with the treasure on the Barrow Downs. Bombadil breaks the curse by leaving tor treasure for others to find, so perhaps that is the key with Smaug's hoard - both Bilbo and indeed, Dain were willing to share the spoils with others, and were unaffected by the Dragon-sickness...unlike the Master of Laketown!


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Snowghost77
Lorien

Oct 16 2013, 10:41pm

Post #53 of 75 (697 views)
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seven rings for the dwarf lords [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think Sauron was the one to give the rings to the dwarves...I believe they were forged by the elves and gifted to them. Sauron did however try to take them, and succeeded in obtaining three I believe. The others were lost with the fall of Nogrod and Belegost, as well as just being lost God knows where if I remember correctly from the books. Some of you Tolkien experts can chime in with more accurate info I'm sure....I could be wrong

The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty heroes of seal team 6, the PJ, and the civies who fell in Tangi
- Task force Warrior will not forget you


Lio
Lorien


Oct 16 2013, 11:11pm

Post #54 of 75 (667 views)
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Looking forward to more songs! [In reply to] Can't Post

So apparently we'll get more singing from Bofur and the Goblin King? Can't wait!

I wonder, is the "new" Goblin-town song the same one as in the book? That would be awesome. Cool

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

"Don't laugh at the Dwarves because they will mess you up." Dean O'Gorman (Fili)

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!


flameofudun
Lorien

Oct 17 2013, 12:43am

Post #55 of 75 (639 views)
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Just read this and u beat me to the post! [In reply to] Can't Post

But so pumped! My favourite things in the EE are now
1. Bilbo seeing Narsil
2. The dwarves singing their song
3.girion attempting and failing to kill smaug
4. Bilbo and thorin tailing elrond and gandalf.
Of course I will enjoy all of it, but those are what I'm excited for most!

''We are very dangerous over short distances''

-Gimli


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Oct 17 2013, 1:33am

Post #56 of 75 (624 views)
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If this is true [In reply to] Can't Post

I will definitely get the extended edition. That sounds interesting.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 17 2013, 4:28am

Post #57 of 75 (583 views)
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This sounds WONDERFUL. [In reply to] Can't Post

God, from young Bilbo and ever old Gandalf, to Elf flirty Kili ( I am with the poster on being up for an extra extended of Kili's dalliances in Rivendell!!! lol), it sounds like the sort of wonderful material for which I would gladly (eagerly in fact) have given up the wargs chasing rabbits (the ONLY great thing about that scene was the initial introduction of the wargs, which was creepy and did at least present them as very wolflike.. . "that is no wolf"), and sat for an extra 15 minutes in the theater.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by Altaira on Oct 17 2013, 3:05pm)


Avnar
Lorien


Oct 17 2013, 4:40am

Post #58 of 75 (579 views)
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Sounds like... [In reply to] Can't Post

This film is going to get even more childish than it already is.

Good lord.


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Oct 17 2013, 5:43am

Post #59 of 75 (545 views)
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Why would the airline [In reply to] Can't Post

Risk a major lawsuit showing what seems to be pirated material????

If the digital release isn't until the 22nd, and the hard copy isn't released until the 5th of November, then wouldn't this be an illegal showing?

It does seem as though the writer has been quite involved in research regarding the upcoming EE (and up to date on speculations), but either Air New Zealand has a phenomenal deal with PJ&co (and Warner Bros), or they are looking for a lawsuit, or....

This isn't legit.

I was excited reading through it, don't get me wrong. And at first I totally thought it was legit (the Kili elves thing worries me now, though....so anti-Tolkien, and while I am no purist, I am not sure about it....and I have been opposed to the Tauriel/Kili idea from the get go, hoping it was just a publicity stunt, even though I have embraced all the other changes. The romance anti-Tolkien theme, however, feels to me like a slap in the face to the professor-again, love the rest of the changes!- because Tolkien was VERY specific about romantic mores and rules in his world)

But I wonder if this is just a brilliant hoax.....

Something doesn't seem quite right on this, but if I am proven wrong, I am proven wrong.

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Oct 17 2013, 5:59am

Post #60 of 75 (549 views)
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It appears to be legitimate [In reply to] Can't Post

Air New Zealand has a nice website where you can check all the inflight entertainment, so I looked for the Auckland to Melbourne flight, and found that indeed The Hobbit EE is listed, running 3 hours and 2 minutes. You can check it out here:

Link

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




gliido
Bree

Oct 17 2013, 6:04am

Post #61 of 75 (537 views)
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Beat me to it! [In reply to] Can't Post

I just did the same thing!


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Oct 17 2013, 6:16am

Post #62 of 75 (529 views)
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Oh they were most certainly given by Sauron.... [In reply to] Can't Post

in the guise of Annatar.

See this summary on Tolkien Gateway Smile


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Shagrat
Gondor

Oct 17 2013, 8:31am

Post #63 of 75 (527 views)
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Some more stuff [In reply to] Can't Post

http://madammadhatter.tumblr.com/post/64246754623/fortysixthhour-these-are-the-extended-edition

Confirmation that Saruman's discussion about the rings is in.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Oct 17 2013, 8:33am)


patrickk
Rohan

Oct 17 2013, 9:05am

Post #64 of 75 (477 views)
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You forget Air New Zealand is a major sponsor of a New Zealand product [In reply to] Can't Post

This isn't about any old airline pirating material. This is about a major sponsor getting first dibs at a new version of something that they have been showin for nearly a year now (remember the safety video).


Snowghost77
Lorien

Oct 17 2013, 12:28pm

Post #65 of 75 (402 views)
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dwarven rings [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, so I always thought that sauron pretty much tutored and taught the elves on making the rings whilst the elves themselves actually made them and gave them out....except for the one...you learn something everyday

The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty heroes of seal team 6, the PJ, and the civies who fell in Tangi
- Task force Warrior will not forget you


Peterthorn of Rohan
Rivendell

Oct 17 2013, 12:36pm

Post #66 of 75 (439 views)
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Great News! [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's hope the tauriel-kili thing will be like the rivendell scene!


Cirashala
Grey Havens


Oct 17 2013, 2:28pm

Post #67 of 75 (385 views)
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if it is [In reply to] Can't Post

I will be SO utterly thankful to the crew!!!!!

Sly

I sure hope so!!!!

Race is meaningless. We all bleed red-no matter who or what we are. What matters is the heart. For each race has those with good hearts and those with bad hearts. You have a good heart. You do not deserve to die.


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Oct 17 2013, 5:31pm

Post #68 of 75 (325 views)
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I read in a Letter or note.... [In reply to] Can't Post

That the Elves made all of the rings, under Annatar's direction. Then as soon as he revealed himself as Sauron with the One, the Elves tried to hide or destroy all of the rings they could. They hid the Three, destroyed many, but Sauron (somehow) got the Nine and Seven. How he gave them out, I am not sure it was finally decided or elaborated upon, sadly. So at first Gandalf thought that Bilvo's ring was one of the lesser ones that were not destroyed by the Elves.


Snowghost77
Lorien

Oct 18 2013, 2:11am

Post #69 of 75 (243 views)
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dwarven rings [In reply to] Can't Post

 Ahh, I see now...thanks for that clarification Rembrethil

The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty heroes of seal team 6, the PJ, and the civies who fell in Tangi
- Task force Warrior will not forget you

(This post was edited by Snowghost77 on Oct 18 2013, 2:16am)


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Oct 18 2013, 2:39am

Post #70 of 75 (237 views)
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To complicate things... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Dwarves maintain that the Elves gave Durin his ring.

We were discussing this elsewhere on the forum, so the answers of others are fresh in my mind.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Oct 18 2013, 5:43am

Post #71 of 75 (223 views)
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Sauronwas directly involved in the making of The Seven, and his power was on them, [In reply to] Can't Post

but Durin's Ring was given him by the Elves, though it was still one made under Sauron's direction and instruction.


The Ring is believed to have worked on Thror's mind, and to have played a role in his venture into Moria. It not only inspired avarice, it had the effect of making all other things seem worthless in the absence of great treasure, and the latter had a destabalizing effect on the minds of Thror and of Thrain, so that neither were able to have any peace of mind and sought ever for lost treasuries.

I do VERY much hope that it is pointed out that it was an aspect of madness that drove Thror to Moria in the first place, in light of what drove the Dwarves out of their most sacred kingdom to begin with.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Oct 18 2013, 1:57pm

Post #72 of 75 (194 views)
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Clarification [In reply to] Can't Post

In Dwarvish tradition, the Elves gave Durin his ring, but in the Sil and HoME, written from an Elvish perspective, it is implied/stated that Sauron gave them all out.

I don't think that Tolkien finished ironing the detail out, and we are left with the 'Tradition' of both races, Dwarves and Elves, who both had reasons to stretch the truth to their own ends.

Personally, I don't see Durin taking the ring from Sauron, unless there was subterfuge involved. Maybe he sent it with his last batch of orc army rejects and they were conveniently 'ambushed' as they 'accidentally' strayed too close to Moria?

Just theorizing......


Snowghost77
Lorien

Oct 18 2013, 2:46pm

Post #73 of 75 (187 views)
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Dwarven rings [In reply to] Can't Post

Again, all this info has shed new light on the subject for me, and is much appreciated.....as usual you guys come through in the clutch.

The path of the Warrior is paved in blood, sweat, tears and ultimately death. He weeps for the fallen, bleeds for the cause, and sweats till he dies.
In memory of operation FALLEN ANGEL and the mighty heroes of seal team 6, the PJ, and the civies who fell in Tangi
- Task force Warrior will not forget you


adnan
Rivendell


Oct 21 2013, 4:09pm

Post #74 of 75 (147 views)
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Great stuff added it seems... [In reply to] Can't Post

I am just glad a majority of what is added is dialogue moments..there was enough action in the movie. I can't wait to get the extended editions, when they are all packaged together....what a long wait that will be! :)

Rivendell


gliido
Bree

Oct 21 2013, 4:22pm

Post #75 of 75 (146 views)
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Why wait!? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why wait?!

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