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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thieves! Fire! Murder!

Old Pilgrim
Rivendell


Oct 15 2013, 7:35am

Post #1 of 25 (1073 views)
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Thieves! Fire! Murder! Can't Post

Does anyone know why Radagast shouted those three words when first met the Company? We all know how strange and confused can be Radagast and perhaps he was still under shock after his discoveries in Dol Guldur, but on the other hand how could those three words be connected with the Necromancer and Dol Guldur?

Someone wrote in another threat that it was the Necromancer's plan to lure Gandalf in Dol Guldur by revealing himself to Radagast and confuse his minds but Radagast was always a bit odd so I don't believe that the Necromancer had any influence on his mind. However since he was so loud and his rabbits aren't very quiet at least in the movie it is possible that he was responsible that orcs found the Company.


Lucky Luke
Bree


Oct 15 2013, 10:09am

Post #2 of 25 (574 views)
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Fear! Fire! Foes! [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, it kind of sounds like the writers took a line from the LOTR book (when the Hobbits sound the alarm in Crickhollow and yell "Fear! Fire! Foes"). Only they changed 2 words out of 3! So Radagast is yelling an alternate version of that alarm cry.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 15 2013, 12:27pm

Post #3 of 25 (470 views)
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Because he's a nutter? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just took this as a sign of his eccentricity, so didn't feel the need to look into it for any depth of meaning.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 15 2013, 2:25pm

Post #4 of 25 (397 views)
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Because...Raddy is a "Very Excitable little Fellow" [In reply to] Can't Post

also, a line from the Book
when Bilbo freaks out
about Not returning
from the Quest?


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Oct 15 2013, 2:28pm

Post #5 of 25 (458 views)
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It's Smaug's line.... [In reply to] Can't Post

He said it when he noticed the missing cup in (or out!) of his hoard. Perhaps they didn't want to give Smaug the line, and instead recycled it for Radagast?

I do remember in TTT Appendices, PB or FW did say that they felt that the change of dialogue between characters was a noted concern among fans, but that they (and PJ) thought it was "...important that someone said the words..." not really who was saying them. I think it a very nice and appropriate thing for Radagast to say, and since he has all of a few dozens of words in LoTR, he needs all the help he can get for his lines! LOL!!


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Oct 15 2013, 2:57pm

Post #6 of 25 (386 views)
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no idea [In reply to] Can't Post

 
i have no idea why they took smaug's (arguably) most memorable line and gave it to radagast. i think it was not necessary (smaug could have easily kept it), and it doesn't really make sense in radagast's mouth.

i suppose one can force it to work by intellectualizing that "thieves" are the stealing of the health of the forest and "murder" is the death of the forest and the animals. "fire" makes no sense whatsoever.


.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Oct 15 2013, 3:17pm

Post #7 of 25 (381 views)
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Maybe it's a Middle-Earth colloquialism? [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe it's an idiom that, purportedly, that doesn't translate directly to English? We have a lot of such idioms that befuddle translators to convey. Just look up 'Lost in translation' and you will see what I mean.


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Oct 15 2013, 4:30pm

Post #8 of 25 (351 views)
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that is [In reply to] Can't Post

 
rembrethil -- that is an +incredibly+ inventive thought. well-done. : )

if so, that means that this phrase might have been common in middle-earth.... so it might just as easily fall from radagast's lips, from smaug's, from thorin's.

(i think it's a great way to think of the line, 'tho i still deem it would have been best to keep it with smaug.)

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Oct 15 2013, 4:46pm

Post #9 of 25 (330 views)
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Thank-you! [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps it is a general cry for attention, ('look at this')?

People 'cry bloody murder' in the English-speaking world. Perhaps in ME, the most important things to note are 'Thieves' (implied to mean 'Help me'), 'Fire' ('Let's put out the fire on my house so that yours doesn't burn down'), 'Murder' (well, this one is obvious 'catch the killer')


Darkstone
Immortal


Oct 15 2013, 6:30pm

Post #10 of 25 (307 views)
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Cause no one would help him if he yelled 'Chocolate!' / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair,
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today,
I wish he would just fly away.


Kim
Valinor


Oct 15 2013, 7:53pm

Post #11 of 25 (294 views)
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Ha! I would! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yelling "Chocolate" will always get my attention. Tongue


elaen32
Gondor


Oct 15 2013, 9:50pm

Post #12 of 25 (264 views)
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Same here, especially if it's Thorin yelling it! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Yelling "Chocolate" will always get my attention. Tongue

Just ask Brethil!TongueAngelic And you thought "Du Bekar" was a war cry? ShockedEvil


Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!



Brethil
Half-elven


Oct 15 2013, 9:54pm

Post #13 of 25 (257 views)
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Elaen and Kim, I heard you guys having fun over here...! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
Yelling "Chocolate" will always get my attention. Tongue

Just ask Brethil!TongueAngelic And you thought "Du Bekar" was a war cry? ShockedEvil




I quite agree: it would get my undivided attention too! SlyEvil

Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!





elaen32
Gondor


Oct 15 2013, 10:02pm

Post #14 of 25 (253 views)
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Hah! Were your ears burning? [In reply to] Can't Post

We hadn't got to discussing Nutella, hot tubs etc yet. This is a family friendly site you know!AngelicAngelicShocked


Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!



Kim
Valinor


Oct 15 2013, 10:05pm

Post #15 of 25 (252 views)
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Well, you gotta figure if someone mentions chocolate on this site [In reply to] Can't Post

Nutella and hot tubs aren't far behind! Evil


Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 15 2013, 10:37pm

Post #16 of 25 (246 views)
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Aha, there you are again – now with your posts re. Thorin I am in complete agreement. [In reply to] Can't Post

Must admit I prefer Thorin to chocolate any day, though…

Smile


Kim
Valinor


Oct 16 2013, 12:46am

Post #17 of 25 (218 views)
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You're not saying I have to choose, right? [In reply to] Can't Post

'cause obviously the correct answer is Thorin + chocolate = perfection Evil


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Oct 16 2013, 1:33am

Post #18 of 25 (213 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Oct 16 2013, 2:45am

Post #19 of 25 (207 views)
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Aha! [In reply to] Can't Post

Discussing Thorin in a Radagast thread! Touché.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2013, 3:10am

Post #20 of 25 (186 views)
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Alarums and excursions! [In reply to] Can't Post

Murder most foul!


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


Kim
Valinor


Oct 16 2013, 4:42am

Post #21 of 25 (182 views)
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Oh yes [In reply to] Can't Post

we can hijack any thread to discuss Thorin Cool


Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 16 2013, 11:30am

Post #22 of 25 (158 views)
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No, no – I'm afraid you have to choose. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll take Thorin, then.


In Reply To
'cause obviously the correct answer is Thorin + chocolate = perfection Evil


Smile


Old Toby
Gondor


Oct 16 2013, 3:35pm

Post #23 of 25 (130 views)
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while we're at hijacking [In reply to] Can't Post

There's this equation....

Chocolate + nutella + hot tub = Thorin

Actually, nowdays some of us (whoshallremainnameless...ahem) really consider them all synonymous! TongueHeart

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.....

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)

(This post was edited by Old Toby on Oct 16 2013, 3:37pm)


Brethil
Half-elven


Oct 16 2013, 6:53pm

Post #24 of 25 (107 views)
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[open hijiacking] I like your math Old Toby [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
There's this equation....

Chocolate + nutella + hot tub = Thorin

Actually, nowdays some of us (whoshallremainnameless...ahem) really consider them all synonymous! TongueHeart

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.....




The order of operations is spot on! Cool
Maybe just add 'unrestrained joy' in there someplace and you've got it. LaughLaugh

[hijiacking closed]

Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!





Kim
Valinor


Oct 17 2013, 1:49am

Post #25 of 25 (82 views)
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Now don't be hasty [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure we can come to some sort of agreement about this. Shocked

 
 

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