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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
DOS Score update from Doug Adams
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Silmaril
Rohan


Oct 12 2013, 5:50pm

Post #1 of 29 (1957 views)
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DOS Score update from Doug Adams Can't Post

Doug Adams wrote about Howard Shore and the DOS score: "He's not scoring Wolf of Wall Street and he's completely and utterly healthy. The schedule--and travel--simply worked better with a few tasks divvied up. The NZ performance is great and the music is entirely Shore's, don't sweat it. There's no news because people are ... you know ... working!This score is going to knock everyone's socks off; it's *phenomenal*. But don't look for details for a while yet. Work comes first, promotion after. The play's the thing. "

Updates on twitter

Working late. Finish line in sight. Exhausting, but such an astonishing pleasure all the same. Just you wait ... #Hobbit

Delivery number one: made! #Hobbit #Phew

MT “@LDNVoices: Excellent film session this afternoon with @benparrymusic for Belle et la Bête. More Middle Earth music tomorrow morning!”

Almost there ... #Hobbit


(This post was edited by Silmaril on Oct 12 2013, 5:55pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 12 2013, 6:39pm

Post #2 of 29 (1052 views)
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Thanks for posting that! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's good to hear real news from a reliable source (and we obviously have something special to look forward to!)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 12 2013, 6:40pm

Post #3 of 29 (1062 views)
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As a Fan of PJ&HS..Bomby knows what a BURDEN they BEAR! [In reply to] Can't Post

They are Aware
of their Legacy
None of us will
Never understand?

Bomby just is sooo. Thrilled
that they NEVER
Let us down.

Those TWO in combination
...UNBeatable combination

OUR EYES&EARS will never
Be the Same! a GOOD Thing

Ain't it Great? GO GO!
TeamJackson&Shore!

You may have noticed that
Bomby
can be Quite a Cheerleader..?.
when it comes to this Project?


Avandel
Half-elven

Oct 12 2013, 7:14pm

Post #4 of 29 (1053 views)
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"There's no news because people are ... you know ... working!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Very gentle, polite, funny.......good for them to remind us. Hope they appreciate intense interest = much love from fandomHeart


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 12 2013, 9:33pm

Post #5 of 29 (1004 views)
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I thought the reacions last week were rather hyperbole. [In reply to] Can't Post

 



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Mahtion
Rivendell

Oct 12 2013, 10:48pm

Post #6 of 29 (923 views)
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Hyperbole and Hysteria [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


So many people find things to fault the Hobbit trilogy which stems from a fear of losing the continuation of the same talents beloved since LOTR. Even if Howard Shore only composed the score rather conduct it would have very little effect on the overall tonal music. The conductor would still have to follow the musical sheets which were composed by Shore.

Just silly overreactions and criticisms which continue to be one of commonplace now on theonering.net. It may be due to people being starved of information for the movie but even with the first trailer there was so much baseless criticism leveled against Tauriel, the Elves, and any interpreted deviations from the book or emphasis on action.


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 12 2013, 11:11pm

Post #7 of 29 (907 views)
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I do not agree 100% [In reply to] Can't Post

Though I argue with some critics here and sometimes straight against them, I am glad they are here.

Not all of it is hysteria (as in the Shore case imho), there are also many valid points and I do not want others to think they should not raise negative points here anymore (I have done so myself).



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


sycorax82
Rohan

Oct 13 2013, 12:41am

Post #8 of 29 (917 views)
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I'm guessing Howard will be firing on all cylinders after AUJ had the rugged snatched... [In reply to] Can't Post

...from under it. I'm still disappointed that Bilbo's theme hardly made it into the movie.


Mahtion
Rivendell


Oct 13 2013, 4:51am

Post #9 of 29 (800 views)
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Criticism vs Eager Doomsaying [In reply to] Can't Post

Constructive criticism is fine and expected, it is the eagerness to expect doom or problems which I have issues with because it is a negative bias. I am not saying we should suppress opinions just that we should be less erratic and quick to judge.

PJ is not without fault, his production is monumental and successful though it is not perfect. I see a familiar pattern and even an expectation to sacrifice faithful adaptation with cinematic purpose and vision. I think a lot of the expectations are idealistic or unfair considering the past.

Should we really be surprised by the deviations when they already existed in similar fashion in the LOTR trilogy?

Allow not the shadows of the Enemy to dull your courage or shatter your resolve. We are yet to all pass from the walls of Arda. The light of Aman still shines upon our fair faces, for we are the Calaquendi.


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 13 2013, 9:31am

Post #10 of 29 (734 views)
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I am not arguing with you about the adaption or PJ's approach. [In reply to] Can't Post

I just meant that one has to see this both ways... many people here might say that we have a positive bias.

And some people have have already been unhappy with LotR, so saying that they already know what PJ is doing will not help them. They can and should be heard nontheless imho.

But I agree with you that hysteria in both ways should be avoided. Both the hating and the fanboying.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 13 2013, 10:34am

Post #11 of 29 (761 views)
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Howard is SOO in Demand, his time to create [In reply to] Can't Post

new things has ended.

He is working other Movie projects..
But Honestly, he probably makes
it a Priority
to help PJ!

since this has been his BEST Success Story
of his Expansive Career
so far!

Applyng PURE GENUIS
to something as IMPORTANT
to millions has been the Delight
for Millions of us ordinary folks,
Film-goers THAT in the Long Term,
we will ba able to LOOK Back There
and know what Fine Time Everyone had.

A TOTAL WIN for everyone WORLDWIDE...


elaen32
Gondor


Oct 13 2013, 12:06pm

Post #12 of 29 (701 views)
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Too right Bomby! [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree wholeheartedly and it can be both a blessing and a curse when those whose work we love becomes so popular. I just think that it is great that HS was able to come back on board for this project. It is actually pretty unusual in the film industry for composers to write, orchestrate and conduct the whole score- we were spoilt with LOTR. However, it doesn't mean to say that DoS and TABA scores won't be as great as expected by any means!Smile


Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!



Mahtion
Rivendell


Oct 13 2013, 1:50pm

Post #13 of 29 (658 views)
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Perspective [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course, bias goes in both directions and neither is less hysterical or appropriate than the other.

I keep forgetting about Goblintown and the impact/fall physics. That is pretty much inexcusable, unnecessary and over the top even in typical cinematic hollywood. I did not enjoy the mountain giants but I did not care for their mention in the book as well. To be fair the impractical and improbable physics existed in LOTR but with Goblintown it went in a worse direction.

I do not care for movies or stories which do not place the protagonist(s) in a real sense of danger. I want to feel the gravitas of consequence and the harsh reactions to physical and mental trauma. These instances of weakness or defeat allow for character growth and transformation. So in this regard I did not feel this inescapable sense of danger in Goblintown and if that was PJ's intention ( I dont believe it was due to the comedic and whimsical tone) he failed short.

That said I do not believe that any shortcomings can invalidate what was done well. I approach many movies and books in this manner and I think keeping opinions grounded escapes the duality of fanboy (apologetic) and hater (detractor).

Allow not the shadows of the Enemy to dull your courage or shatter your resolve. We are yet to all pass from the walls of Arda. The light of Aman still shines upon our fair faces, for we are the Calaquendi.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Oct 13 2013, 1:57pm

Post #14 of 29 (656 views)
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Okay But did you think about the Music there? [In reply to] Can't Post

Music is the Thread here...


Mahtion
Rivendell


Oct 13 2013, 6:23pm

Post #15 of 29 (604 views)
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A mistake Made [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Music is the Thread here...


I realized after posting that this post would be more appropriate in the physics thread. I didn't want to rehash the same ideas there and essentially double post.

I look forward to the music and I wonder what Thranduil's theme will sound like and if it incorporates the general Mirkwood theme. Also it would interesting to hear elements of the Rivendell or Lothlorien themes so that all the Elvish soundtracks share a common thread.

I also would hope that as PJ has said that DoS will have mostly new soundtracks considering all the effort Howard put into the AUJ themes only to see them unused. Basically Howard can compose lots of official music but how much of it will be incorporated into the finished film soundtrack?

Allow not the shadows of the Enemy to dull your courage or shatter your resolve. We are yet to all pass from the walls of Arda. The light of Aman still shines upon our fair faces, for we are the Calaquendi.

(This post was edited by Mahtion on Oct 13 2013, 6:26pm)


Sunflower
Valinor

Oct 13 2013, 10:36pm

Post #16 of 29 (561 views)
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I hate to say it [In reply to] Can't Post

but I've been reading further in the linked JWFan site thread, and something has to be going on here. Shore has apparently pulled out of the Wolf of Wall Street project too, and even though WOWS has been slightly delayed (Maybe December?) like Gravity was delayed last year. Actually a lot of Oscar season films have been shuffled this year but this may not have anything to do with schedule. Shore and Scorcese have apparently established a working relationship similar to Scorcese's with DiCaprio--we all know directors form relationships with composers too. For him to pull out of a project like this, and partially from TH when we all know what pressure he is capable of working under, is, as the poster in that thread said further down, highly unusual.

I just hope and pray Mr Shore does not really have health issues. I'm....not even going to be going there.

I am, needless to say, devastated by the news that he is not orchestrating and conducting the rest of TH scores. I have always said that Middle-earth deserves only 100% complete singular obsession. Whoever works on the project has to be dedicated to that project. if you're an actor you can get away with it--it's possible to do fantastic work on multiple projects at the same time. But again, I think the best performances and compositions etc are when the fcus is completely on a singular passion and the soul of the creator becomes obsessed.

Yes, the music will be just as GOOD but will it be GREAT? One of my all-time favorite musicians (of any genre or caliber) was, God keep him, Ennio Morricone. His best work being, IMO, not what comes to the mind of most people when you mention his name--The Good, The Bad and the Ugly--but The Mission and the TV miniseries Marco Polo (which you can now watch in its entirety on YouTube BTW.I kowtow to the person who uploaded it last yr as it is VERY hard to find on DVD. Do yourself a favor and watch the first 20 minutes of Marco Polo and tell me you're not haunted for life. And that's only the tip of the iceberg as far as that score went. That score was so great that 20 yrs later I was still able to recall entire passages from memory even though I hadn't watched it since 1982, and never had a tape or CD of it. And when I was finally able to watch it again on YouTube I was astonished that I had remembered whole scenes note for note. One of the comments on the YouTUbe video, Part 1, was a former POW who said that the only thing that kept him going while he rotted in a Iranian prison in the early 80's listening to fellow prisoners being tortured by the minions of Ayatollah Khomeini was him playing that score over in his head.)
I always consider what could have been had Morricone written the score for Titanic instead of James Horner. he asked Cameron if he could do it and Cameron declined as he wanted a more "modern" score. Horner delivered a fantastic score of course, but it would have been fascinating to hear Morricone too.

Sorry about the OT on Morricone but do you think he could have delivered his best work if he'd farmed part of that work out to someone else.

I will not criticize Mr Shore though. To me it really doesn't matter as much, as the quality of TH IMO has already been compromised and diminished by tyrannical WB. Who interfered with Peter's vision. I still think WB forced Peter to do a trilogy. It was also highly unusual of Peter Jackson to talk about "long and exhausting days" last yr--this from the man who worked on LOTR? He was forced to divide his work at the last minute. Seems to me a LOT of things are being "forced" in Hollywood these days. Whether it's WB treating NZlanders like peasants, "asking" Jo Rowling for a new franchise set in harry Potter-world b/c its Superman franchise fell through, or Disney "asking" 80-something John Williams to do the new SW films b/c they don't give a crud about artistic quality, they want JW b/c they want what's OLD and FAMILAR--like nobody wanted brand new Trek characters, they also wanted old and familiar.

I am still excited by the project of course, and grateful for the films, but I'm not breathless as I was last yr. Due to studio meddling, I am of the opinion that TH will never be what it could have been, so this new development regarding Shore is just another variation. I could still be surprised, and that is why I am remaining spoiler-free, but I'm not betting on it.


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Oct 13 2013, 10:43pm)


Lindele
Gondor


Oct 14 2013, 12:24am

Post #17 of 29 (532 views)
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I pretty much [In reply to] Can't Post

Disagree with everything you've said here (relating to TH)...

If you think Doug Adams is flat out lying, then it seems apparent tro me that you haven't followed him very closely over the last few years.
And I could say the same about saying it was WBs idea to make a trilogy. That was obviously a PJ decision.


Sunflower
Valinor

Oct 14 2013, 5:52am

Post #18 of 29 (518 views)
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*scratches head* [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm confused. What did I say Mr Adams was lying about? I think I did admit to being ignorant of whatever controversy was brewing last week, I decided to not go back and seek out whatever thread that was. I admit to ignorance of recent events, due to my computer being out of whack. All I did was read further in the linked thread, where they talked about things like an onlne spokesman for Jerry Goldsmith denying rumors that Mr Goldsmith was in bad health...right up until Mr Goldsmith passed away of cancer. Like the spokesman for Mr Goldsmith, Mr Adams has signed an NDA. So if he knew something we didn't, and Mr Shore or others decided we should not know it, than he would have deny it, even though it was true.
Now, if that is "lying", than yes, he'd be guilty of that. But I don't believe in the concept, when an NDA is involved.

When TPTB decided we should know, or if we shouldn't know at all, than whatever happens is up to them, and it's their business.

HOWEVER...that does not mean we should not be free to speculate, which is what I was doing above, based on the reactions of people in the JW Fans thread. Please read that thread up until the last page before you judge me. And I can also stat my opinion of the merits of musical scores.

And please be aware I would be the LAST one to speak ill of either Mr Adams or Mr Shore. I repeat: I am NOT criticizing them. Up until this summer, I HAVE followed Mr Adams's blog closely. And I have even had the opportunity to meet Mr Shore in person, at the presentation he did during the festivities for the FOTR Symphony at Radio City Music Hall 4 yr ago. (There's a pic of myself with him in the TORN Journal site from a couple yrs back.) Whatever may or may not have happened, I always give them the benefit of the doubt. I have only the highest respect and regard for both of them, and I sincerely and with all my heart hope and pray that that nothing serious is happening behind the scenes.

I don't wish to spoil this thread so I want that to be clear. And I won't dwell on this. I still eagerly await the score as I will hear it in the theater.
************

I will say, however, that regarding TH being made into a trilogy, I too thought in the beginning as you did..that it was Peter's fault. I am not in the "Peter Jackson can do no wrong" camp--far from it. The 4-D controversy last yr being one such thing he handled badly. However, the more time went on, and the more I read about WB's relationship and treatment of New Zealanders in this production, right down to their forbidding the owners and operators of Tolkien-film related sites the right to advertise for tourists, and what may have happened when WB execs flew out to NZ during the labor dispute, I slowly changed my mind. Subsequent evets regarding major studios over the past 2 yrs attempting to shore up their bottom line with the extension of several faltering franchises IMO that should have been left alone (ANOTHER Spider-man, so soon after the first?) make me skeptical that it is the design of Peter.

the Hobbit being made into a trilogy is right up there with WB needing a new set of films set in the Potterverse, even though Jo Rowling has said Harry's story is done. This shows WB;s desperation to stick to the familiar and how much they feel they need a blockbuster franchise of familiar material. And the fewer complications the better. Notice how they want Jo to write a screenplay, even though she's never written one before. They can't even wait for her to dash out a book first. And why now, and not 2 yrs ago right after Potter ended.
Yeah. Right.
It's Jo's fault..she's just a money-hungry whore. Like Peter Jackson is. *SNARK ALERT*

Anyway...have to be positive so I'll end here...


(This post was edited by Sunflower on Oct 14 2013, 5:59am)


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 14 2013, 7:47am

Post #19 of 29 (498 views)
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Well, to be fair..... [In reply to] Can't Post

Doug Adams did say that Howard Shore is 'completely and utterly healthy', so to go from that to suggest that something must be wrong, and you really hope Howard Shore isn't ill, did sound a lot like saying you didn't believe Doug Adams. Non-disclosure agreements don't force people to make statements that aren't true, and Doug Adams never seems to be afraid of saying 'I can't talk about that', so if he says Howard Shore is well, it seems only decent to respect what he says.

Don't you think maybe there's a difference between being free to speculate, and being careful not to actually post speculations that question other people's health, working relationships and the like? I do, and always feel uncomfortable when that kind of speculation is posted, because that's how rumours start.

Sorry, not getting at you particularly, just the way I feel about it.


Faleel
Rohan

Oct 14 2013, 2:00pm

Post #20 of 29 (460 views)
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You do know [In reply to] Can't Post

That John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Hans Zimmer, and other composers have Orchestrator's right?

Alexander Courage composed music for some of JG's scores, Star Trek The Motion Picture for example, Courage composed all of the music using his TOS theme, Fred Steiner composed some cues, and Ian Fraser did all the Ilia's theme moments.

David Newman wrote Remembering Childhood from Hook, And you know the scene in Star Wars where Luke goes down into the Death Star trench and the voice says "Use the Force, Luke"? that was orchestrated by Angela Morely,

Armin Steiner conducted Jurassic Park, after JW hurt his back or something, Tim Simonec conducts all of Michael Giacchino's scores.


Sunflower
Valinor

Oct 15 2013, 1:20am

Post #21 of 29 (404 views)
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Clearly [In reply to] Can't Post

that site does not have the same "high standards" TORN does, and the posters there work under a different, and far looser, set of rules. We are much more in the spotlight and are therefore held to account. I had forgotten the amount of potential damage even quoting from the idle speculation of others might cause--and for that I am truly sorry. It's tough getting back into the loop after so long out of it, and I feel as if I've been dropped into a maw.

I think I'd better zip my lips, so to speak, before I insert my foot any deeper. And I have some serious catching up to do...sorry, really, folks..ta ta on this thread, for now! (and Doug if you are reading this...well, I refer to part of my post above. Sorry, again!


Silmaril
Rohan


Oct 15 2013, 7:01pm

Post #22 of 29 (355 views)
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some pics [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151771809480326&type=3&l=9de83d67cc


Faleel
Rohan

Oct 15 2013, 9:48pm

Post #23 of 29 (331 views)
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And [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23304&page=22#entry944079


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2013, 10:41am

Post #24 of 29 (314 views)
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wait wait.... I have missed something crucial it seems. Shore is *not* going to be doing TH's music now? :¬( how terrible [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am, needless to say, devastated by the news that he is not orchestrating and conducting the rest of TH scores. I have always said that Middle-earth deserves only 100% complete singular obsession. Whoever works on the project has to be dedicated to that project. if you're an actor you can get away with it--it's possible to do fantastic work on multiple projects at the same time. But again, I think the best performances and compositions etc are when the fcus is completely on a singular passion and the soul of the creator becomes obsessed.


"So your own praise will forever keep your name green,
Both here on Earth and on the stage of the stars" - J.G.Kittel, writing about the composer Jan Dismas Zelenka (1740)
__________________________________________

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
__________________________________________




entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Oct 16 2013, 12:46pm

Post #25 of 29 (306 views)
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No, he is. [In reply to] Can't Post

The "news" being discussed here, which is not new, is that he is not conducting the orchestra while the music is recorded for the film. Howard Shore composed all the music, but the recordings are conducted by other people.

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