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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Everybody Gets New Kings


Oct 6 2013, 1:01am

Post #1 of 16 (394 views)
Everybody Gets New Kings Can't Post

Something I've noticed in ROTK for a very long time I just never paid much attention to it, but when the quest is over and a new age has begun almost every realm we've visted got a new ruler I say almost because Lorien and Mirkwood still had Thranduil and Celeborn/Galadriel respectivly. Rohan got a new king in Eomer. Gondor of course got Aragorn. Erebor got Thorin Stonehelm. Dale got Bard 2. and technically if you think about it The Shire got a new Mayor in Frodo he filled the place while the actual Mayor was fattened up to look the part. So just thought I'd post it if anyone hadn't thought about it before I don't think it has any meaning.

Tol Eressea

Oct 6 2013, 3:14am

Post #2 of 16 (261 views)
Imrahil kept Dol Amroth, [In reply to] Can't Post

but IIRC, didn't Aragorn make Faramir Prince of Ithilien? Also, Mordor is under entirely new management.

They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep.


Oct 6 2013, 3:23am

Post #3 of 16 (254 views)
Priceless Meneldor! [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
Also, Mordor is under entirely new management.

Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!


Oct 6 2013, 3:33am

Post #4 of 16 (237 views)
that's right [In reply to] Can't Post

I forgot about Faramir yeah Mordor's a huge example lol


Oct 6 2013, 3:38am

Post #5 of 16 (244 views)
king me [In reply to] Can't Post

Dain Ironfoot was almost at the Dwarven old-age limit anyway, while Theoden was naturally old even after being healed by Gandalf. Brand is the odd one out, as being the son of Bard he was presumably not so old. Elves aside, the only 'old dude' who gets to rule is Aragorn, who is not so old in Numenorean terms.

As the Third Age ends the narrative often focuses on change- Legolas and Gimli discuss the future of Men and their own kindred, Gandalf is thinking of leaving, Aragorn worries about having an heir, the Ents are warned that Men will now rise to rule all the lands, the other lands send embassies, the slaves of Nurn are free at last and the Shire has now tasted the real world for a while, and of course the Elven-lords now want to sail with the now dead rings of power. Cirdan is mumbling something about the last ship, but that's probably the brandy talking.....

One could argue that the kings who died probably knew they were going to die soon; Dain is incredibly old and Theoden certainly wants to ride to his death. Brand also died defending the gate to Erebor, something expected of the king of Dale. Lotho is certainly failing horribly at running the Shire, and his number was certainly up when the Hobbit heroes arrived.

Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Oct 6 2013, 1:05pm

Post #6 of 16 (219 views)
Frodo was more of a caretaker Mayor [In reply to] Can't Post

It was actually Sam who became Mayor on seven occasions! After Frodo left for the Grey Havens and Will Whitfoot retired. Now that is what I call electoral popularity. I wonder if anyone actually stood against him? Not that the Mayor of the Shire had a great deal of power.


Oct 6 2013, 2:05pm

Post #7 of 16 (216 views)
Sam [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah I know, but I was referring to the immediate aftermath of the War Of The Ring Frodo was the deputy Mayor for a bit

Fredeghar Wayfarer

Oct 6 2013, 7:43pm

Post #8 of 16 (197 views)
It's like an Oprah special [In reply to] Can't Post

"You get a king! And you get a king! Everyone gets new kings!"

In all seriousness, I agree that this is a side effect of the emphasis on change at the end of the story. LOTR was about the end of an age and the transition to a new one. The great kingdoms of Middle-earth were largely in ruins or in their declining years in the Third Age. The Elves were departing over sea. The Dwarves were disappearing into their mountain halls. The Ents were a dying race. The Dominion of Men was soon to begin. It was just a question of whether Men would be their own masters or if Sauron would enslave the world. With the transition from the Third to the Fourth Age, it probably seemed natural to Tolkien to emphasize that change by giving all the lands new rulers. Middle-earth was being transformed and moving into its future.


Oct 6 2013, 8:30pm

Post #9 of 16 (185 views)
I see-as I though: As a final book, ROTK is four-king amazing// [In reply to] Can't Post


Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more....

"nowimë I am in the West, Furincurunir to the Dwarves (or at least, to their best friend) and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "
Or "Hold off! unhand me, grey-beard loon!"


Oct 7 2013, 1:19am

Post #10 of 16 (175 views)
The Old Passes Away [In reply to] Can't Post

There is more going on here than we see. Everything that was wonderful and magical about Middle Earth passes away with the coming of our beautiful King Elessar. All the old kings die. The elves leave. The Ents disappear because there are no Entings. The last of the great mearas Shadowfax leaves with Gandalf. The end of ROTK is very sad in this respect. And it si all designed to explain to us why these things are no longer in our world.


Oct 7 2013, 9:11pm

Post #11 of 16 (153 views)
Bree winds up under a new king again too. [In reply to] Can't Post

You're right, politics changes for almost everyone.

I wonder what happens in Dunland with Saruman no longer dominating it.


Oct 7 2013, 10:47pm

Post #12 of 16 (158 views)
The elves also got a new monarch [In reply to] Can't Post

From The Return of the King, Appendix A(v) :

"As Queen of Elves and Men she [Arwen] dwelt with Aragorn for six-score years in great glory and bliss..."

I met a Balrog on the stair,
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today,
I wish he would just fly away.


Oct 9 2013, 6:59pm

Post #13 of 16 (118 views)
I was going to try to make a pun, but I can't beat this *applause* // [In reply to] Can't Post


There's a feeling I get, when I look to the West...

Werde Spinner

Oct 11 2013, 8:24pm

Post #14 of 16 (97 views)
LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

Also, Mordor is under entirely new management.


But *who* is managing it? An uber-orc? The men of Harad or Khand? Any remaining Black Numenoreans?

Or does Aragorn himself rule Mordor? I wouldn't envy its governor, that's for sure. But doesn't his vision of Middle-earth just before he finds the seedling of the White Tree show the Morgul Vale awash in gold, or something like that? Perhaps there's hope for Mordor after all. Smile

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

Eärwen of Mithlond
The Shire

Oct 15 2013, 1:56am

Post #15 of 16 (82 views)
"Ruler" of the Shire? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would say, if you had to pick something equivalent to a ruler of the Shire, it would be the Thain. This was Pippin's father at the time, I think?

Occupation: Ship-building
Hobbies: Swimming, long walks on the shore


Oct 15 2013, 2:07am

Post #16 of 16 (95 views)
high-thain [In reply to] Can't Post

pippin's father was high-thain of all the hobbits -- fallohides, stoors, and harfoots.


aka. fili orc-enshield
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


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