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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The thing that bothers me most about PJ's approach

frodolives
Rivendell

Oct 8 2013, 2:03pm


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The thing that bothers me most about PJ's approach Can't Post

Not the new scenes. Not Azog. Not Tauriel. No, the stuff that grates most is PJ's penchant for making changes to moments from the book that were perfect from the get-go. Witness:

- The troll scene. In the book, this is Bilbo's first 'test' and he utterly fails at it. He's terrified and completely out of his league. He tries to impress the dwarves by picking a troll's pocket and is discovered. It is only through Gandalf's wonderful voice throwing that the trolls are defeated. In the movie... Bilbo is heroic throughout the scene. He isn't picking a pocket, he's rescuing ponies. He doesn't get caught being a poor thief, he gets caught because a troll sneezes. Gandalf doesn't trick the trolls, Bilbo does. WHY change such a wonderful scene? Why make Bilbo heroic on his first real encounter with adventure? He's supposed to earn his heroism after getting over his first few misadventures. Its like PJ and company completely misunderstood the scene and its significance to Bilbo's development.

2) The riddle scene. It is perfect up until the moment that Gollum mistakenly gives away the solution to the final riddle. In the novel, Bilbo yells "Time!" by coincidence. Its a sublime moment and, again, points to Bilbo's dumb luck and amateur status. Here, the moment is less about Bilbo than it is about Gollum.

3) Bilbo rescuing Thorin in the final scene. It is far too early for Bilbo to be gaining his prowess with Sting, and far too early to earn Thorin's respect. This doesn't happen in the book until Mirkwood when Bilbo puts on the ring and slays spiders, and even then, the dwarves complain about the barrels later on. This again points to PJ's misunderstanding of Bilbo's development. Yes, I understand the need to have a climactic moment and subsequent uplift at the end, but it puts the series in a bind, since now Bilbo has been accepted by Thorin (for a time anyways) and is now capable of killing wargs and orcs.

4) While Martin Freeman is very good, he rarely seems scared. In the novel, Bilbo is terrified until he finds joy in intimidating the spiders. In the film, he seems annoyed but never truly frightened, even by the trolls. He may seem worried as he is being held by the trolls, but not much else. He was frightened of Gollum in the book, but in the film he's (again) annoyed and frustrated.

Looking at the DOS trailers, it seems that Bilbo's heroism in Mirkwood will be undercut by elves helping fight the spiders. I'll wager that Smaug's wrath isn't lit by Bilbo stealing a cup, but by the dwarves trying to attack him with bombs (as PJ has hinted at). Even the cleverness of the barrel escape looks different since the elves clearly know the have escaped in barrels and try to recapture them.

I enjoyed the first film and I have no doubt I will enjoy the next one. But they seem to betray a frustrating lack of understanding of what makes certain moments from the book so special. I can only imagine what will happen with the Arkenstone, Beorn, and the final death of Smaug. I'll bet they're all changed.

Sorry for the rant. I really want to love these movies!

Subject User Time
The thing that bothers me most about PJ's approach frodolives Send a private message to frodolives Oct 8 2013, 2:03pm
    I must say none of the things mentioned in your first four points bother me Glorfindela Send a private message to Glorfindela Oct 8 2013, 2:09pm
        I suspect most people would agree with you frodolives Send a private message to frodolives Oct 8 2013, 2:11pm
        It really does rankle Ziggy Stardust Send a private message to Ziggy Stardust Oct 9 2013, 12:34am
    The only thing that rankles me about the movies.. Patty Send a private message to Patty Oct 8 2013, 2:34pm
        Biggest Problem IMHO Radagast's Lead Bunny Send a private message to Radagast's Lead Bunny Oct 8 2013, 3:39pm
        I sort of agree Glorfindela Send a private message to Glorfindela Oct 8 2013, 3:45pm
            Sometimes it's the little things that rankle more than the large things for me… Patty Send a private message to Patty Oct 8 2013, 3:53pm
                Oh, I've never appreciated gross stuff like that Glorfindela Send a private message to Glorfindela Oct 8 2013, 4:01pm
                    Gross. That's the right word for it. Patty Send a private message to Patty Oct 8 2013, 4:03pm
    The Usual Suspects JWPlatt Oct 8 2013, 4:17pm
        I agree, but... frodolives Send a private message to frodolives Oct 8 2013, 4:23pm
            Change for the sake of change JWPlatt Oct 8 2013, 4:27pm
                Exactly! frodolives Send a private message to frodolives Oct 8 2013, 4:41pm
    Bilbo & Gollum Kilidoescartwheels Send a private message to Kilidoescartwheels Oct 8 2013, 5:13pm
    The Difference Between Writing and Film DwellerInDale Send a private message to DwellerInDale Oct 8 2013, 6:01pm
        I am a filmmaker frodolives Send a private message to frodolives Oct 8 2013, 6:19pm
            Possibility vs Necessity DwellerInDale Send a private message to DwellerInDale Oct 9 2013, 3:05am
                I respect your opinion... frodolives Send a private message to frodolives Oct 9 2013, 1:42pm
                    The Trolls: classic no-win situation DwellerInDale Send a private message to DwellerInDale Oct 9 2013, 2:24pm
                        I agree about the dwarves frodolives Send a private message to frodolives Oct 9 2013, 2:32pm
                        Sounds about right. Arannir Send a private message to Arannir Oct 9 2013, 2:43pm
                        As I mentioned above... RosieLass Send a private message to RosieLass Oct 9 2013, 4:10pm
                            I do not think so. Arannir Send a private message to Arannir Oct 9 2013, 4:18pm
                    Changes and excuses... Eleniel Send a private message to Eleniel Oct 9 2013, 4:22pm
                        I said something similar so I will respond. Arannir Send a private message to Arannir Oct 9 2013, 4:32pm
                        This was also a motivation for Goblin Town changes DwellerInDale Send a private message to DwellerInDale Oct 9 2013, 4:44pm
            What films have you worked on?// Owain Send a private message to Owain Oct 9 2013, 4:02am
    What bothers me most is the second half of the troll scene Brandybuckled Send a private message to Brandybuckled Oct 8 2013, 6:10pm
        The troll scene Kilidoescartwheels Send a private message to Kilidoescartwheels Oct 8 2013, 8:46pm
            But Brandybuckled Send a private message to Brandybuckled Oct 8 2013, 8:54pm
                Because they thought it was funny maybe? imin Send a private message to imin Oct 8 2013, 9:09pm
                Because in those circumstances.... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Oct 8 2013, 10:13pm
                    Agreed. Arannir Send a private message to Arannir Oct 8 2013, 10:23pm
                        It was comic in the book, yes. RosieLass Send a private message to RosieLass Oct 8 2013, 10:54pm
                    Troll scene Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Oct 8 2013, 11:01pm
                        Yes Brandybuckled Send a private message to Brandybuckled Oct 8 2013, 11:24pm
                        Especially considering the line in the new DoS trailer duats Send a private message to duats Oct 9 2013, 1:27am
                        The bit inbetween scenes ... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 9 2013, 6:40am
                            I myself simply can't think of a scenario where it would make sense the way it happened... Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Oct 9 2013, 12:57pm
                                You think one troll wouldn't have been capable of killing Bilbo? dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Oct 9 2013, 1:13pm
                                    One troll, two trolls... Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Oct 9 2013, 1:26pm
                                Jumping ahead of yourself. DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 9 2013, 1:31pm
                                    I didn't exactly attribute any statement to you, did I? Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Oct 9 2013, 1:42pm
                                        I wasn't having a pop at you. I was being playful, hence the ;-). Must've fallen flat on the floor. / DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Oct 9 2013, 1:55pm
                                            Fair enough... Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Oct 9 2013, 2:52pm
                        So, what could they do? dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Oct 9 2013, 7:33am
                            Well... Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Oct 9 2013, 12:32pm
                    Can you imagine the dwarves all giving up in the Bo5A 'cause Thorin was about to ... you know Brandybuckled Send a private message to Brandybuckled Oct 8 2013, 11:30pm
                        I'm absolutely certain you can see the difference... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Oct 9 2013, 7:36am
                            Dwarf personality characteristics -- Surrender? Brandybuckled Send a private message to Brandybuckled Oct 9 2013, 5:17pm
                                Right..... dormouse Send a private message to dormouse Oct 9 2013, 5:40pm
                                    No need. Brandybuckled Send a private message to Brandybuckled Oct 9 2013, 5:43pm
            Safety JWPlatt Oct 8 2013, 9:46pm
    I agree... Cave Troll Send a private message to Cave Troll Oct 8 2013, 7:25pm
    Yep. IDLookout Send a private message to IDLookout Oct 8 2013, 11:46pm
    I have a problem Bishop Send a private message to Bishop Oct 9 2013, 5:17am
        A bit of homework is needed here... DwellerInDale Send a private message to DwellerInDale Oct 9 2013, 6:07am
        Obsession and addiction are never good, especially if you don't enjoy it. Noria Send a private message to Noria Oct 9 2013, 1:13pm
        I watch AUJ too much. It's like I'm addicted to it. I'd love to believe it's because it's a lush, visually dazzling, well acted and fully loaded romp through Middle Earth, and perhaps the film I had been waiting for since I was a kid. But it's not, exactl Lusitano Send a private message to Lusitano Oct 11 2013, 11:28pm
    I have a different interpretation of several of these scenes elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Oct 9 2013, 1:29pm
    Prediction time frodolives Send a private message to frodolives Oct 9 2013, 1:45pm
        why even try to make predictions about such things? elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Oct 9 2013, 4:08pm
            Err... frodolives Send a private message to frodolives Oct 9 2013, 4:14pm
                well, yes, but still elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Oct 9 2013, 7:59pm

 
 
 

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