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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Chapter of the Week: An unexpected Party

Old Pilgrim
Rivendell


Oct 4 2013, 6:10pm

Post #1 of 13 (531 views)
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Chapter of the Week: An unexpected Party Can't Post

Another week and another scene that need to be discussed. An unexpected Party is one of the most interesting scenes for me, because we first see Dwarves who are without their leader Thorin and as a result they are more witty, laughable and comfortable.






This scene starts with Bilbo having his supper. This is one of the rare moments in the first movie when he is living his normal live without any knowledge of the adventure and I find that very nice.

1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?
2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?


The Doorbell is ringing but before that we saw a mark on his door and a shadowy figure approaching. I find this a little scary especially because it is dark but I like idea of glowing mark because it sounds more magical then in the book.

3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?


I found bell ringing very nice, because it is not too laud and not too quite and there is something homely in it. Whenever we heard it, we are eager to see the next visitor while Bilbo is ever more confused. Since there were no bell ringing in the Lord of the Rings I am satisfied that they included this from the book.

4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?


Dwalin is the first dwarf of the Company that arrives at Bag End. At this moment Bilbo is still trying to be polite and is showing Dwalin respect by bowing and saying »Bilbo Baggins at yours.« Then we have some comical moments with Dwalin eating Bilbo's dinner and he being completely shocked.

6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo.


The next Dwarf that arrives is Balin and he is the only one who showed some respect to our Hobbit. I liked him from that very beginning, his statement about raining is just great and he sounded like a nice grandfather to me.

7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?
8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.


Then we have Kili and Fili, the youngest Dwarves in Thorin's Company. They are the first Dwarves that arrived in pair and contrary to previous two dwarves Bilbo is not so nice anymore. He is even trying to close the door before they want to enter but once they are inside, their behaviour is on the same level than that of Dwalin.

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?

All other Dwarves arrives together and with them is also Gandalf. I find it funny how they fall in Bag End's hall once Bilbo opened the door as we can guess that they were hungry and tired and their only wish was to eat and sit in warm room. Who knows what Gandalf told them about Bilbo and his home?

10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?
11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?


Now we can talk a little bit about great music from Howard Shore that was funny and light in this very scene. It is a result of Bilbo strange behaviour towards unexpected guests and we also get a hint of magestic dwarven theme from Erebor when dwarves are arriving and later when Dwalin is telling about Thorin's absence. We heard also Blunt the Knives song which shows us just how funny and playful dwarves can be.

13) Do you like those new changes in Bilbo's theme that reflects his unusual behaviour towards visitors?
14) Blunt the Knives is one of the few songs in those movie sing by dwarves and is not in original soundtrack. What is your opinion of it?

For the end we can talk about preparations for the big supper in the dining room, Gandalf's similar behaviour then in Fellowship of the Ring and Bilbo's reaction to all this chaos in his house. For me this scene wasn't so great on first watching mainly because dwarves were so merry and unrespectable to Bilbo and I also didn't like that Gandalf supported them instead of holding them down since this all was the result of his doing.

15) Weren't you upset about dwarfs behaviour towards Bilbo? Did you found it annoyable or funny?
16) Why they were so comfortable and playful at that time? Do you think it has to do with the fact that Thorin wasn't there and Bilbo looked funny to them?
17) Do you like that Gandalf hit himself on the ceiling like in the Fellowship of the Ring or that he asked for a red wine instead of tea?
18) How did the ending of this scene prepare you for the next scene?



DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 4 2013, 7:37pm

Post #2 of 13 (312 views)
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The beginning of the film has great scenes! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for starting us off this week, Old Pilgrim.

1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?

I think the extended edition will give us a better perspective of Bilbo's life - how he and the rest of the Hobbits interact with one another. He was a lonely Hobbit, after all.

2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?

Fish and me don't go well. It doesn't look very appetizing to me. PO-TA-TOES might have made for a better meal. Wink

3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?

It works well - Dwalin's shadowy figure is very imposing. Anyone not familiar with the story might be concerned for Bilbo. It's not only Bilbo who grows to know the Dwarves, but also the audience. And I suppose that also leads into why they all have very different appearances (and introductions).

4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?

Do we ever see the doorbell in Bag End? How does it work?

7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?

Balin is just the best.

8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.

I suppose it makes sense for there to be cultural differences. It's quite amusing, really. And now whenever someone says "good evening", I can't help think of this scene.

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?

Yes, it is inappropriate. But Bilbo needed to be wary of them - if they were all friendly and appropriate, then the scene wouldn't work. Neither would the mutual distrust between Bilbo and the Dwarves (especially Thorin), throughout the rest of the story.

11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?

I felt that Gandalf was annoyed at the Dwarves for being so clumsy.

14) Blunt the Knives is one of the few songs in those movie sing by dwarves and is not in original soundtrack. What is your opinion of it?

Overall, I liked the song. But I thought the scene was a little over the top. Still, it was fun.

17) Do you like that Gandalf hit himself on the ceiling like in the Fellowship of the Ring or that he asked for a red wine instead of tea?

I thought it was rather forced, especially since the scene in FOTR was an accident.

18) How did the ending of this scene prepare you for the next scene?

Boom boom boom. "He is here". It leads nicely into the next scene!

General remarks:

I love the shot of Gandalf's rune in this scene. Hence, it ended up in the ring-motif in the top left of the forum! And this shot of Gandalf just makes me smile.



(This post was edited by DanielLB on Oct 4 2013, 7:40pm)


Bernhardina
Rohan


Oct 4 2013, 8:21pm

Post #3 of 13 (279 views)
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Fun [In reply to] Can't Post

1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?

Pretty much, yes Cool

2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?

Ew, no thank you.

3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?

Yes, I think it builds up to Bilbo opening the door very well.

4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?

I was a little suprised about the door ringing. I though they would knock, as Gandalf did in the FOTR when visiting Bilbo, but I am glad they used the doorbell, it has more of a comic relief to it also, which fits the scene very well.

6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo.

I loved Dwalin from the moment I saw him! Perfect cast!

7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?

I think Balin is one of the most likeable dwarves in the bunch. I think it is interesting how he and Dwalin are nothing alike!

8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.

Cool!

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?

It certainly is! But the confidence of the dwarves makes them intruiging in my opinion, because they seem fun to hang out with although I think they are very disrespectful at the same time Evil

10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?

As a filmmaker myself, I believe it was nessecary.


11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?

Not really, no.

13) Do you like those new changes in Bilbo's theme that reflects his unusual behaviour towards visitors?

I didn't notice actually.

14) Blunt the Knives is one of the few songs in those movie sing by dwarves and is not in original soundtrack. What is your opinion of it?

I love this song and this part is my favourite in the entire movie. I honestly think this is the kind of homour we should have seen more for the rest of the movie instead of trollsnot and quotes like "That'll do it!"

15) Weren't you upset about dwarfs behaviour towards Bilbo? Did you found it annoyable or funny?

Mostly funny although I though the burping was a bit much. It was so childish in a way and felt a bit forced. I have no doubt that the dwarves actually would have burped if they were real I just thought they could have left that part out.

16) Why they were so comfortable and playful at that time? Do you think it has to do with the fact that Thorin wasn't there and Bilbo looked funny to them?

Yup. Probably. I think they liked the food in perticular.

17) Do you like that Gandalf hit himself on the ceiling like in the Fellowship of the Ring or that he asked for a red wine instead of tea?

I love the fact that he hit the lamp.

18) How did the ending of this scene prepare you for the next scene?

I haven't got a clue Angelic

ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK INTO MORDOR - ONE FLIES, YOU FOOLS!


(This post was edited by Bernhardina on Oct 4 2013, 8:22pm)


Brethil
Half-elven


Oct 4 2013, 9:32pm

Post #4 of 13 (253 views)
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Another great scene. These are so fun! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Another week and another scene that need to be discussed. An unexpected Party is one of the most interesting scenes for me, because we first see Dwarves who are without their leader Thorin and as a result they are more witty, laughable and comfortable. While the cat's away... Laugh


This scene starts with Bilbo having his supper. This is one of the rare moments in the first movie when he is living his normal live without any knowledge of the adventure and I find that very nice.
1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?
2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?
Good point - its sort of insular, homebody Bilbo living his fussy bachelor life. No one to fret over, no large goals. Comfort and peace. I would actually like him to cook for me; fish is not my favorite but his pantry is full of other yummy things and I bet he can make all them wonderfully and very 'country'.
The Doorbell is ringing but before that we saw a mark on his door and a shadowy figure approaching. I find this a little scary especially because it is dark but I like idea of glowing mark because it sounds more magical then in the book.
3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?
I was grinning...like a child. Because I knew it would be a Dwarf. And as Dwalin (excepting here all the silly comments I make about Thorin. Indulge me) is the Dwarf I feel the most liking and closeness to, I loved the look an sound of him from the first.
found bell ringing very nice, because it is not too laud and not too quite and there is something homely in it. Whenever we heard it, we are eager to see the next visitor while Bilbo is ever more confused. Since there were no bell ringing in the Lord of the Rings I am satisfied that they included this from the book.
4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?
Yes it sounds like a cowbell! All I can say is that rough and tumble Dwarves are still more polite than the S-Bs when they visit. Thorin I acquit, as he probably rang the bell first but got no answer as the party was a bit loud at that point.

Dwalin is the first dwarf of the Company that arrives at Bag End. At this moment Bilbo is still trying to be polite and is showing Dwalin respect by bowing and saying »Bilbo Baggins at yours.« Then we have some comical moments with Dwalin eating Bilbo's dinner and he being completely shocked.
6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo. Well I find Dwalin just to be both the quintessential warrior as well as very reserved in his real feelings. Softness to a stranger is just not going to happen. He still made me smile. I love him biting off that fish head with such joy. And he was polite enough to compliment the chef.


The next Dwarf that arrives is Balin and he is the only one who showed some respect to our Hobbit. I liked him from that very beginning, his statement about raining is just great and he sounded like a nice grandfather to me.
7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?
8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.
That's a great point Pilgrim!!!! So true! Balin is so polite and kind; but still a Dwarf and looking for the food...and I presume his brother as well.


Then we have Kili and Fili, the youngest Dwarves in Thorin's Company. They are the first Dwarves that arrived in pair and contrary to previous two dwarves Bilbo is not so nice anymore. He is even trying to close the door before they want to enter but once they are inside, their behaviour is on the same level than that of Dwalin.
9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?
I don't just love Fili in this scene: I adore the cockiness with which he strides into bag End. Kili and the boot-wiping is the most egregious of the manners I think...but he is very young, and it shows here! And I think trying very hard to be thought Tough.

All other Dwarves arrives together and with them is also Gandalf. I find it funny how they fall in Bag End's hall once Bilbo opened the door as we can guess that they were hungry and tired and their only wish was to eat and sit in warm room. Who knows what Gandalf told them about Bilbo and his home?
10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?
11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that? I like the group fall with Gandalf in the back, looking in...that is just great. Great. He and MF play it perfectly. Visually it works wth Gandalf 'behind' it all so to speak.


Now we can talk a little bit about great music from Howard Shore that was funny and light in this very scene. It is a result of Bilbo strange behaviour towards unexpected guests and we also get a hint of magestic dwarven theme from Erebor when dwarves are arriving and later when Dwalin is telling about Thorin's absence. We heard also Blunt the Knives song which shows us just how funny and playful dwarves can be.
13) Do you like those new changes in Bilbo's theme that reflects his unusual behaviour towards visitors?
14) Blunt the Knives is one of the few songs in those movie sing by dwarves and is not in original soundtrack. What is your opinion of it?
I love the song and the scene. I think the physicality of the Dwarves, the balancing and unity in song, is almost 'magical'. And that one-ness speaks right away to their people and how closely they stick together and work together. It sets up the fight scenes later on, where they work seamlessly as a team and are strongest as a group.

For the end we can talk about preparations for the big supper in the dining room, Gandalf's similar behaviour then in Fellowship of the Ring and Bilbo's reaction to all this chaos in his house. For me this scene wasn't so great on first watching mainly because dwarves were so merry and unrespectable to Bilbo and I also didn't like that Gandalf supported them instead of holding them down since this all was the result of his doing.
15) Weren't you upset about dwarfs behaviour towards Bilbo? Did you found it annoyable or funny?
16) Why they were so comfortable and playful at that time? Do you think it has to do with the fact that Thorin wasn't there and Bilbo looked funny to them?

17) Do you like that Gandalf hit himself on the ceiling like in the Fellowship of the Ring or that he asked for a red wine instead of tea?
18) How did the ending of this scene prepare you for the next scene? I loved how the Dwarves are: being Dwarves. They aren't Elves or Hobbits and never will be! Yes the mirth is them enjoying good a meal and the hilarity perhaps that a group of soldiers might get before deploying. They know dark times are ahead, and it will begin when Thorin gets there. But in the meantime they can relax and enjoy life, perhaps a bit fecklessly! LOVE Gandalf hitting the lamp again (well, first time actually in the timeline! It sets up for the next scene in contrast: to show how much depth these Dwarves have. They have a childlike lightness of spirit at times, but also a deep sense of duty, which shows as soon as the King appears. GREAT discussion Pilgrim! Thanks!!!!Angelic


Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!

















The Tenth Walker
The Shire


Oct 4 2013, 10:47pm

Post #5 of 13 (239 views)
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Sorry, I haven't time to answer every question [In reply to] Can't Post

So I'll just say I really enjoyed reading your post.(and add a few comments) :)

An Unexpected Party is one of my favorite scenes in AUJ, mostly because of Martin Freemans excellent portrayal of Bilbo. I just knew Bilbo was perfect after seeing this scene for the first time.

I love Balin as well. He is one of my favorite dwarves. I like how the friendship between Bilbo and Balin will develop in the next film as seen by the new trailer.

I really love how we are introduced to the dwarves here when they are relaxed and are just being themselves
.
So all in all when I put AUJ in the DVD player I especially look forward to seeing this scene.

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." J.R.R Tolkien


elostirion74
Rohan

Oct 5 2013, 9:04am

Post #6 of 13 (193 views)
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so many great moments! [In reply to] Can't Post

 




First - thanks for all the great questions!

This scene starts with Bilbo having his supper. This is one of the rare moments in the first movie when he is living his normal live without any knowledge of the adventure and I find that very nice.

1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?
2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?

It looks very plausible as a depiction of Bilbo´s ordinary life, quiet and comfortable. I agree with you that this little part is very nice, I love the sense of contentment Bilbo relishes in when preparing to eat his meal. I think it shows one of the qualities that distinguish Bilbo from most of the dwarves. Bilbo actually seems to enjoy and truly appreciate his meal, to make of it a kind of ritual, whereas the dwarves with few exceptions only seem like they enjoy binge-eating or eating as quick as possible, stuffing themselves.



3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?


I thought this scene was very beautiful, very atmospheric. Dwalin´s shadow certainly could look scary, if I didn´t already know who it was.

6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo.

Oh, where to begin? The exchange between Dwalin and Bilbo was such a joy to me, couldn´t have been better! First you have Bilbo´s wonderful little squeak while hastily trying to look more proper and not forget his manners. Then you´ve got his mixture of anxiety and shock sitting beside Dwalin, probably fearing that there wouldn´t be any food left for him and probably a little frightened by Dwalin´s tough appearance.

I found Dwalin very blunt, but at least he complimented Bilbo´s cooking and he bowed to Bilbo before entering. It´s clearly set up that Dwalin is a no-nonsense, straight to the point kind of character, who doesn´t like to say more than neccessary.


7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?
8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.

Balin´s introduction is very elegant, with his gracious bow and the seconds where we are allowed to have a good look at him before he enters. Both this and his take on good evening helped set Balin apart and make us as the audience connect with him from the get-go.

Balin´s take on "good evening", seeing it as a statement, echoed the "good morning" sequence, very Tolkienian humour.

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?

I found them very amusing, with their cocky and distinctly "young" behaviour, walking in like they own the place. They did actually make comments about Bilbo´s home, which is a common thing to do, so I did find that they showed some manners at least.


10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?
11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?

The group fall in the hall was a great ending to a very fine sequence. I loved Bilbo´s annoyance, striding briskly towards the door, practically shouting into the room. His exasperation when looking at Gandalf was priceless!

Like others have said I think Gandalf is more frustrated with the clumsiness of the dwarves than anything else.


14) Blunt the Knives is one of the few songs in those movie sing by dwarves and is not in original soundtrack. What is your opinion of it?

Blunt the knives was pure unadulterated fun. First it had a great rhythm, second it highlighted how well the dwarves could work as a theme, third it had the perfect introduction with Bofur´s sense of glee and mischief, making fun of Bilbo.


15) Weren't you upset about dwarfs behaviour towards Bilbo? Did you found it annoyable or funny?

At this point I was so far into the playful mood that I didn´t react very much to their behaviour towards Bilbo, I just loved seeing Bilbo´s frustration, fussing over his crockery and his premium snack tomatoes etc. I did note, though, that they didn´t care to ask Bilbo about anything, which was rather rude.

There was one thing, though, which I thought could have been left out. All the burping and spilling of drink etc just felt very childish and really didn´t need to be there; it didn´t contribute anything to the scene.

17) Do you like that Gandalf hit himself on the ceiling like in the Fellowship of the Ring or that he asked for a red wine instead of tea?

Gandalf hitting himself on the ceiling felt forced. But I absolutely adored the exchange between him and Dori about red wine. Dori is such a polite dwarf, thank god there´s actually someone in the group you can reason with!


cats16
Valinor


Oct 5 2013, 9:38am

Post #7 of 13 (186 views)
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Great thoughts. [In reply to] Can't Post

Feel free to stop back in and share some more if the mood strikes you. You're more than welcome to do so.

Smile


Riven Delve
Grey Havens


Oct 5 2013, 1:23pm

Post #8 of 13 (172 views)
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An unexpected pleasure! [In reply to] Can't Post

I enjoy this chapter because there's so much of the spirit and charm of the book in the Bag End scenes! Smile

This scene starts with Bilbo having his supper. This is one of the rare moments in the first movie when he is living his normal live without any knowledge of the adventure and I find that very nice.

1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?
2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?


Yes, this is pretty much how I imagined Bilbo living. I think the way he eats his supper--with all the condiments and things he needs neatly organized around him on the table--says a lot about his personality.

I dislike cooking, so I would love to have Bilbo as my cook! Apparently he even enjoys it. Wink

The Doorbell is ringing but before that we saw a mark on his door and a shadowy figure approaching. I find this a little scary especially because it is dark but I like idea of glowing mark because it sounds more magical then in the book.

3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?

4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?

Well, I knew it was going to be a Dwarf, so I wasn't too worried. I thought the little tinkling bell made it a little less scary. Really bad dudes bang on the door. Angelic

Dwalin is the first dwarf of the Company that arrives at Bag End. At this moment Bilbo is still trying to be polite and is showing Dwalin respect by bowing and saying »Bilbo Baggins at yours.« Then we have some comical moments with Dwalin eating Bilbo's dinner and he being completely shocked.

6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo.


Dwalin was certainly rather rude when he threw his cloak at Bilbo. I still haven't figured out why he didn't just hang it up on the dozens of pegs by the door. And he had the nerve to eat all Bilbo's supper without offering to share! On the other hand, he was promised food, and lots of it. Wink

The next Dwarf that arrives is Balin and he is the only one who showed some respect to our Hobbit. I liked him from that very beginning, his statement about raining is just great and he sounded like a nice grandfather to me.

7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?
8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.


Balin is pretty sweet, isn't he? Heart I like his literal interpretation of "good evening" (although I wonder if this is a Dwarf thing, or just him). It's a nice parallel to the "good morning" conversation with Gandalf. But there's no mistaking he's a Dwarf, regardless of niceness, when he comes in a takes over Bag End! Laugh

Then we have Kili and Fili, the youngest Dwarves in Thorin's Company. They are the first Dwarves that arrived in pair and contrary to previous two dwarves Bilbo is not so nice anymore. He is even trying to close the door before they want to enter but once they are inside, their behaviour is on the same level than that of Dwalin.

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?


I think it's hilarious how Bilbo didn't see the old stick-your-foot-in-the-door-to-prevent-it-from-closing trick coming. And with Dwarf boots! Silly Hobbit. And after poor Kili was trying to be so friendly!

I love the interaction between the two brothers here. Kili is so crestfallen when Bilbo won't let them in, and Fili is getting ready to take names for messing with his brother. His swagger when they walk in is priceless! (As is his hidden weapons arsenal. I hope that boy doesn't try to go through airport security much.)

Kili's compliment to Bag End is very sweet. I don't even think he's trying to distract Bilbo's attention away from his desecration of the glory box--because Kili really seems to have no idea he's behaving badly!

All other Dwarves arrives together and with them is also Gandalf. I find it funny how they fall in Bag End's hall once Bilbo opened the door as we can guess that they were hungry and tired and their only wish was to eat and sit in warm room. Who knows what Gandalf told them about Bilbo and his home?

10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?

11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?


It would take too much time to introduce them all individually, so cinematically I approve. The group fall is canon, so I'll accept it. I think Gandalf looks adorably guilty. Evil No so guilty that he'll change his ways, of course.Wink

Overall, a great start and introduction to the company! (Though the spotlight is still searching for majestic hair...)


"Our perennial spiritual and psychological task is to look at things familiar until they become unfamiliar again." --G. K. Chesterton



Noria
Rohan

Oct 5 2013, 2:03pm

Post #9 of 13 (175 views)
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Thanks Pilgrim. [In reply to] Can't Post

This scene starts with Bilbo having his supper. This is one of the rare moments in the first movie when he is living his normal live without any knowledge of the adventure and I find that very nice.

1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?
-More-or-less. It’s a great scene, showing us that Bilbo is particular, even fussy in the way that he has everything just so as he sits down to eat. He lives alone so naturally he prepares his own meals.

2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?

-Not what I’d eat before going to bed, but Bilbo is a Hobbit. Dwalin liked the food so Bilbo is probably a good cook.

The Doorbell is ringing but before that we saw a mark on his door and a shadowy figure approaching. I find this a little scary especially because it is dark but I like idea of glowing mark because it sounds more magical then in the book.

3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?

-Even though it wasn't scary to me since I figured it was a Dwarf at the door, I like the glowing mark and the shadowy figure just fine.

I found bell ringing very nice, because it is not too laud and not too quite and there is something homely in it. Whenever we heard it, we are eager to see the next visitor while Bilbo is ever more confused. Since there were no bell ringing in the Lord of the Rings I am satisfied that they included this from the book.

4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?

-The doorbell was fine, though like a lot of things in the Shire, it struck me as a bit anachronistic in the largely medieval world of ME. But since I have no idea how long mechanical doorbells have been around in our world, I may be wrong.

Dwalin is the first dwarf of the Company that arrives at Bag End. At this moment Bilbo is still trying to be polite and is showing Dwalin respect by bowing and saying »Bilbo Baggins at yours.« Then we have some comical moments with Dwalin eating Bilbo's dinner and he being completely shocked.

6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo.

-I thought Dwalin was great, very Dwarvish. After all, he thought he was expected at Bag End, expected to be offered food, and was probably as mystified at Bilbo’s behavior as Bilbo was at the Dwarf’s arrival. Dwalin is just too gruff to care overmuch and probably doesn't see the problem. He did complement Bilbo’s cooking at least.


The next Dwarf that arrives is Balin and he is the only one who showed some respect to our Hobbit. I liked him from that very beginning, his statement about raining is just great and he sounded like a nice grandfather to me.

7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?

-Loved Balin from the first moment, he was so genial and straightforward. Ken Stott was superb in this role. It was a great introduction of a very different Dwarf and Bilbo is rightly mystified by the arrival of another one.

8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.

-Yes I noticed that, and I liked how Balin just rolled with it even though it wasn't the usual Dwarf greeting.

Then we have Kili and Fili, the youngest Dwarves in Thorin's Company. They are the first Dwarves that arrived in pair and contrary to previous two dwarves Bilbo is not so nice anymore. He is even trying to close the door before they want to enter but once they are inside, their behaviour is on the same level than that of Dwalin.

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?

For humans and Hobbits, probably not for Dwarves. Again they thought they were expected. I thought the young Dwarves were cute - loved their swagger - and I like the contrast between the two of them and the first arrivals. The thing with all of these Dwarves is that they are obnoxious without meaning to be at all. They are just different.

All other Dwarves arrives together and with them is also Gandalf. I find it funny how they fall in Bag End's hall once Bilbo opened the door as we can guess that they were hungry and tired and their only wish was to eat and sit in warm room. Who knows what Gandalf told them about Bilbo and his home?

10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?

-No, individual arrivals would have taken way too long. The group fall is right out of the book and works in the movie so it’s OK by me.

11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?

-I thought that Gandalf knew that Bilbo would be pissed but didn't care that much.

Now we can talk a little bit about great music from Howard Shore that was funny and light in this very scene. It is a result of Bilbo strange behaviour towards unexpected guests and we also get a hint of magestic dwarven theme from Erebor when dwarves are arriving and later when Dwalin is telling about Thorin's absence. We heard also Blunt the Knives song which shows us just how funny and playful dwarves can be.

13) Do you like those new changes in Bilbo's theme that reflects his unusual behaviour towards visitors?

-Sure. I like almost everything Shore does in these movies.

14) Blunt the Knives is one of the few songs in those movie sing by dwarves and is not in original soundtrack. What is your opinion of it?

-Blunt the Knives is on the Soundtrack SE. That scene in the movie is one of my favourites because to me it sums up the lighter side of the Dwarves completely. I enjoy hearing it on the CD as well. But I also agree with Brethil that it foreshadows the way the Dwarves work together in a fight, like a well oiled machine of badassery. I also love how Balin sits forwarding the plates that come by him with that great expression of resignation on his face.

For the end we can talk about preparations for the big supper in the dining room, Gandalf's similar behaviour then in Fellowship of the Ring and Bilbo's reaction to all this chaos in his house. For me this scene wasn't so great on first watching mainly because dwarves were so merry and unrespectable to Bilbo and I also didn't like that Gandalf supported them instead of holding them down since this all was the result of his doing.

-I enjoyed it completely and found it amusing to see Bilbo taken so far out of his comfort zone, not least because I am more like a Hobbit than a Dwarf. We get a good idea of Bilbo’s character as well as that of the Dwarves en masse and Gandalf as well. The Dwarfs are so amiable and unpretentious, not really getting that their behavior might be considered obnoxious, that I find them charming.

-I could have done without the burping but am resigned to seeing that sort of thing in a PJ movie – that’s his sense of humour.


15) Weren't you upset about dwarfs behaviour towards Bilbo? Did you found it annoyable or funny?

-As I said above, I found it funny and charming.

16) Why they were so comfortable and playful at that time? Do you think it has to do with the fact that Thorin wasn't there and Bilbo looked funny to them?

-Sure, but I think that’s their nature when relaxed. They are confident and at comfortable with themselves. They behaved much the same way when left to their own devices in Rivendell.

17) Do you like that Gandalf hit himself on the ceiling like in the Fellowship of the Ring or that he asked for a red wine instead of tea?

-I’m not a huge fan of all these little callbacks to LotR because I find them somewhat forced but I don’t really care.

18) How did the ending of this scene prepare you for the next scene?

-I liked how all the hilarity ended abruptly with a sudden knock on the door. It was clear that a change of tone was coming.


(This post was edited by Noria on Oct 5 2013, 2:08pm)


Esmeralda
Bree


Oct 5 2013, 8:56pm

Post #10 of 13 (142 views)
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Party on, Dwarf! [In reply to] Can't Post

1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?

I think it's nice to see what it is Gandalf and the dwarves are asking him to walk away from. He talks so much about his armchair, warm hearth, and the kettle just starting to sing, it helps us to have seen all those comforts and understand what he's missing.

Personally, I can relate to settling in to a cozy evening at home alone, and understand the exaggerated irritation that an unexpected interruption can bring. And for that interruption to be 13 rowdy, unhouse-trained dwarves…oy!

2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?

I prefer my fish without the tail, skin and head (unlike Dwalin), but the seasonings looked good. I was more concerned about putting the empty pan back on the hot burner - he's going to have a scorched mess to scrape off.

3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?

That would be foreshadowing, wouldn't it? :)

4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?

Looking back, I think it sounded rather like the bell in a shop as customers continue to enter. It reinforces the comment of Mr. Baggins looking 'more like a grocer than a burglar'.

6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo.

It almost seems a little unfair to poor Bilbo to be confronted by Dwalin first - he is a tattooed mountain of a dwarf! Dwalin's pushy behavior set the tone for the onslaught to come - more like a rugby scrum than a dinner-party, with Bilbo's drawing-room manners leaving him at a complete disadvantage.

7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?

He does come across as the most mild and sympathetic of the individual arrivals, but he still walks in without an invitation and starts rummaging through Bilbo's pantry without so much as a by-your-leave. And the head-butt with his brother certainly shows that they are cut of the same rugged cloth!

8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.

Interesting observation. Perhaps another example of how Bilbo's assumptions and social niceties differ from the dwarves.

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?

Well, Fili does hand over his weapons, which is considered the civilized thing to do in most places. And Kili compliments Bilbo on the decor - or perhaps the structural engineering of his hobbit hole. And he even wipes his feet, instead of thoughtlessly tracking mud everywhere. All in all, I'd say it comes over as a parody of proper mannerisms, giving us another clue as to how difficult it may be for Bilbo to choose to throw in with these dwarves.

10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?

The last group arriving and falling in a heap due to Bilbo's abrupt throwing open of the door follows the book (other than having Thorin at the bottom of the pile) so I liked it very much.

11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?

I think Gandalf was leaning in to show Bilbo the source of the trouble, and to have his little joke. Remember he said "It will be very amusing for me," when telling Bilbo that it was all settled.

13) Do you like those new changes in Bilbo's theme that reflects his unusual behaviour towards visitors?

I think of the music in this section as the dwarfish mischief theme and hobbity irritation and uncertainty.

14) Blunt the Knives is one of the few songs in those movie sing by dwarves and is not in original soundtrack. What is your opinion of it?

The movie really brought Tolkien's songs to life in a way that didn't come across for me on the page. I'm hoping for more to come! And the coordination between the dwarves during the song revealed them to be more than just chaotic house-wreckers. They may party like drunken frat-boys, but they can fix the mess in no time flat. Remember how clean Bilbo's house was when he woke? No food on the floor, furniture all back in place - I'll bet the plumbing was even working better than ever :).

15) Weren't you upset about dwarfs behaviour towards Bilbo? Did you found it annoyable or funny?

I think it showed the character of the dwarves, and their expectation that Bilbo knew what was going on and had volunteered to host the dinner-meeting. If they had been well-mannered and polite, they would have allowed Bilbo to explain and the meeting may well never have happened. So, as Gandalf well knew, since it was all part of his plan, the misunderstandings were all quite necessary to the plot. I felt a bit sorry for Bilbo, but his whining passivity reduced my sympathy. He could have been enjoying a rousing party, instead he chose to be sulky.

16) Why they were so comfortable and playful at that time? Do you think it has to do with the fact that Thorin wasn't there and Bilbo looked funny to them?

I like the idea someone put forth that they were enjoying themselves before the seriousness of the quest settled in. Here they were together safe and warm, with good food and ale - I think the dwarves know that such things are few and far between and must be embraced while they last. It's also apparent that some of them (Balin & Dwalin) hadn't seen each other for some time. So this was something of a family reunion and an occasion for celebration.

There's also the question of whether Thorin tends to suck the fun out of a room. I think he does seem to be carrying the weight of a mountain on his shoulders, and it casts a long, dark shadow wherever he goes. He is burdened with heavy purpose and doesn't seem to have much time or patience for frivolity.

17) Do you like that Gandalf hit himself on the ceiling like in the Fellowship of the Ring or that he asked for a red wine instead of tea?

The call-backs gave me a chuckle. They provide a sense of nostalgia and continuity - even though these came first, chronologically speaking!

18) How did the ending of this scene prepare you for the next scene?

The knocking on the door and Gandalf's ominous "He's here"? I think it was an immediate tone-shift from light to serious and really set the stage for an imposing entrance. Wonderfully done :).


(This post was edited by Esmeralda on Oct 5 2013, 9:03pm)


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 5 2013, 9:12pm

Post #11 of 13 (140 views)
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My ideas [In reply to] Can't Post

1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?

Yes, pretty much. Hope to see some market scenes in the EE.

2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?

Not a fan of grilled fish, but would gladely take the Scone he tried to hide from Dwalin.

3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?

The shadow is a big much, although I like that we see the rune dissapear because of it.

4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?

Pretty close to how I thought about it when thinking about a grown-up version of TH the Book.

6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo.

I think it intorduced Dwarven culture quite nicely. Very rough, yet not totally unpleasant.

7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?

I love how he bows... he was my favourite dwarf from the very first moment.

8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.

Yes, I did.

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?

Yes, I liked how they got personalities already within that first seconds... little glimpses that have sadly been overlooked by many critics... I hear a lot of people (audience) talking about how amazed they were they were able to remember almost all of the dwarves and their actions during AUJ.

10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?

Glad it is like this.

11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?

Yes, although McKellen can play a sinner face and still you can see that Gandalf knows quite well that he does not actually feel guilty.

13) Do you like those new changes in Bilbo's theme that reflects his unusual behaviour towards visitors?

Yes, always like these little things, athough I was not that aware of it.

14) Blunt the Knives is one of the few songs in those movie sing by dwarves and is not in original soundtrack. What is your opinion of it?

Great version of the song.

15) Weren't you upset about dwarfs behaviour towards Bilbo? Did you found it annoyable or funny?

I did not find most stuff annyoing... I was surprised how many people hated the burbs. I did not find them very out of place actually.

16) Why they were so comfortable and playful at that time? Do you think it has to do with the fact that Thorin wasn't there and Bilbo looked funny to them?

Thorin's absence certainly is the major factor here... with him comes that feeling of doom and gloom... and fate. I guess many of them kind of want to hope that the dragon might be just gone... or that somehow all of this might turn out much easier than they fear. In that comfortable home in the Shire this wish probably sounds more reasonable than reality.

17) Do you like that Gandalf hit himself on the ceiling like in the Fellowship of the Ring or that he asked for a red wine instead of tea?

Yes, those were some of the references I enjoyed more than others.

18) How did the ending of this scene prepare you for the next scene?

I think Gandalf's "He is here" or whatever he says is a bit over the top. It should have come from one of the dwarves, maybe even Fili or Kili saying something like "uncle".




“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Kim
Valinor


Oct 6 2013, 7:05pm

Post #12 of 13 (104 views)
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Chapter 4 [In reply to] Can't Post

1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?
I guess. I didn’t really think about it.

2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?
Well, I’m not really a fish person, but other than that, he seems to be a good cook and has quite the set up on his table.

3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?
Yeah, that was a cool little intro, just a little ominous.

4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?
Again, I didn’t really think about it beforehand, but I liked Bilbo’s reaction to it i.e. “who in the world is interrupting my dinner?”

5) psst Old Pilgrim, what happened to question #5? Tongue

6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo.
Well, from Bilbo’s perspective, I imagine he was quite taken aback to find such a fierce looking dwarf on his doorstep, which made him rather nervous. I thought Dwalin was quite rude, barging in and eating his dinner! From Dwalin’s perspective, I love the “No” when Bilbo asked if they knew each other. I felt kind of sorry for Bilbo when he had to just sit there and watch Dwalin eat his dinner. The looks on his face were priceless! For some reason, I really like the little bit where Dwalin flicks the crumbs off his fingers, like he’s perfectly at home and enjoying his meal. And of course, “that’ll be the door”, came across as kind of sly.

7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?
I loved it! Loved his look and characterization in just the few introductory seconds, and his response to Bilbo’s “good evening” was just perfect and funny.

8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.
Oh, I don’t know about that, I think it was just meant to be more a funny contrast to Bilbo’s earlier conversation with Gandalf. The next bit was fun to watch as Dwalin and Balin greeted each other, and started rifling through Bilbo’s pantry. Bleu cheese, Bilbo’s “I have to speak my mind, I’m sorry” etc. It was kind of funny that Dwalin and Balin seemed to be ignoring everything Bilbo was saying, yet Balin still responded with the “apology accepted” (although he didn’t really acknowledge Bilbo’s other comments).

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?
It was funny how they just barged in and made themselves at home, even more so than Dwalin. I did think Kili was a little rude to be wiping his boots on the glory box.

10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?
I thought it was fun, a funny contrast to the individual entrances.

11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?
I don’t know that I’d use the word sinner, but I was certainly frustrated with him for not actually explaining to Bilbo who all these dwarves were and why he’d told them to come to Bag End, and not giving Bilbo any warning. At least Bilbo had an idea at this point why all these strange dwarves were showing up at his door. Gandalf was behind it!

Note: Chapter 4 ends when the dwarves fall through the door, and Chapter 5 starts as they start pulling food out of the pantry, so I’ll save the comments related to Blunt the Knives and the preparations for supper for the next CHOW. Thanks!


cats16
Valinor


Oct 6 2013, 8:29pm

Post #13 of 13 (108 views)
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There be dwarves... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
1) Did you imagine Bilbo's ordinary live like this?
Yeah, something of the sort. He's a homebody, and seems to live a 'simple' life. He's fussy, but he's comfortable in Bag End.
2) How do you find his supper? Would you like to have him as your cook?
Not exactly how I would eat fish...but I'm sure Bilbo is a very good cook.


3) How did you imagine this scene? Do you like the shadowy figure even before we hear bell ringing?
I also felt a great deal of mystery and magic seeing the shadowy figure come to the door. It's a great way to give the audience just a little bit of a heads up, so we're 'in' on the visitor's arrival just before Bilbo is. This makes his reaction to the doorbell quite comical.

4) Do you like the sound of doorbell in Bag End? Did you image this scene will look different?
The doorbell is a nice idea, because it's very hard to confuse that sound with anything else. We recognize it as the doorbell, so we know what's about to come. It's not a random knock, which may or may not be an animal outside or a different noise. I don't really remember how I pictured this scene, which suggests that it was fairly similar to the film version.


6) What was your first impresion when seeing Dwalin and Bilbo conversation? How did you find his behaviour which could be described as not very nice to Bilbo. Dwalin doesn't hold hobbits in high regard, and treats Bilbo with little respect. He bullies him around, doing as he pleases. I love Bilbo's decision to take one biscuit for himself as he hands over the plate to Dwalin. It's so innocent, especially with that little sigh of exasperation he gives out. It's a touching moment.

7) What is your opinion of Balin's introduction?
I thought it was fine. He is presented as a warm, friendly character from the get-go.
8) Did you notice that also Dwarves doesn't know what good evening means? Because Balin was not reffering it as a greeting but rather as a statement.
I took it as a sign that their cultures are very different--for obvious reasons. It's a similar type of thing as when a person of the U.S. says a phrase but a Brit takes its meaning for something else (and vice versa).

9) How did you like Kili and Fili in this scene? Isn't their behaviour a little inappropriate after they enter Bilbo's home?
They're young, and probably haven't seen many foreigners in their time. They're used to being around their own people. So what's 'inappropriate' for a hobbit hole may very well be proper conduct in the Blue Mountains. I think it's an honest way of showing the audience that these two have much to learn, both of themselves and other people.

10) Did you like that those Dwarves came together or would you prefer individual arrivals like before? And what do you think of this group fall in his hall?
At the rate the movie was going at that point (time wise), I'm fine with the way it was done. We're shown all of their faces quite a bit throughout the rest of this scene, so it's not as if we haven't seen any of them yet. I thought the group fall was nice; Gandalf's face afterwards is wonderful.
11) Gandalf was looking like a sinner to me in this scene because of all troubles he brought to Bilbo. Did you also notice that?
I didn't see it like that.

13) Do you like those new changes in Bilbo's theme that reflects his unusual behaviour towards visitors?
Sure. He's quite fussy in his youth, and doesn't see many foreigners. His feathers are ruffled, and he just wants it all to end ASAP.
14) Blunt the Knives is one of the few songs in those movie sing by dwarves and is not in original soundtrack. What is your opinion of it?
It's great. Every shot in that scene tells a little bit about our dwarves. The more I watch it, the more I see the little nuances about how each of them participates/reacts to the song describes their mindset about the quest and their past.

15) Weren't you upset about dwarfs behaviour towards Bilbo? Did you found it annoyable or funny?
They're dwarves, after all. Like I said above, what is deemed 'unproper' to a hobbit may be proper etiquette to dwarves. I found it funny.
16) Why they were so comfortable and playful at that time? Do you think it has to do with the fact that Thorin wasn't there and Bilbo looked funny to them?
I think your ideas are pretty close. Thorin's absence gave them some playtime. Remember that they've been traveling with him from the Blue Mountains this entire time--until now, when he's off at a meeting and they're getting free food. Some of them saw Bilbo as inferior, and they wanted to take advantage of him.
17) Do you like that Gandalf hit himself on the ceiling like in the Fellowship of the Ring or that he asked for a red wine instead of tea?
Sure. Gandalf had been away from there for many years in both scenes, so it's not unusual for him to forget to 'duck' at certain spots. It's something most of us do at some point, though of course in many different forms. I think it makes the scene feel quite real. I'm sure Gandalf needed some red wine, after dealing with those dwarves for some time. Tea wouldn't have done the job.



 
 

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