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Bladerunner
Gondor
Oct 5 2013, 1:44am
Post #1 of 19
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"How do we know that he won't betray us?"..."We don't"
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Around 0:29 of the trailer, the editing makes it seem as if Dwalin and Thorin are discussing Thranduil; however, based on their location during this discussion, I think they are actually referring to someone else entirely.
Perhaps they are talking about Bard or Alfrid (or Bilbo?).
I can't quite place where they are but it seems to be somewhere in Long Lake. The ruins seem to be part of Dale or perhaps part of the older Laketown?
Anyone have suggestions on their location or whom the dwarves are discussing at that moment?
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Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan
Oct 5 2013, 2:10am
Post #3 of 19
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He is the one giving them a boat ride after finding them down river.
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elentari3018
Rohan
Oct 5 2013, 2:48am
Post #4 of 19
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because i remember at towards sthe end of the trailer Bard says "He cannot see beyond his own desire." 1:36 Which shows that Bard always has his doubts also. So Thorin and Bard do not have an agreeable relationship.
"By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo
"And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series
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Earl
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Oct 5 2013, 4:05am
Post #5 of 19
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I'm thinking they're discussing the Master of Laketown
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It is clear from the trailer that Bard is openly against the Dwarves' quest, so it seems strange that they would even discuss his trustworthiness.
The Master on the other hand is someone we know is a slimy character who feigns support to the Dwarves. He's probably the one who gives them the boats in a show of mock-goodwill, and it looks like Thorin at least sees him for what he really is.
(This post was edited by Earl on Oct 5 2013, 4:06am)
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patrickk
Rohan
Oct 5 2013, 4:54am
Post #6 of 19
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They would not know Bard was agaisnt their quest when he first picked them up.
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It is clear from the trailer that Bard is openly against the Dwarves' quest, so it seems strange that they would even discuss his trustworthiness.
The Master on the other hand is someone we know is a slimy character who feigns support to the Dwarves. He's probably the one who gives them the boats in a show of mock-goodwill, and it looks like Thorin at least sees him for what he really is.
Note trailer scenes are deliberately not in the order of the film, hence are hard to make sense of them. The 'trust' question may be just after they are picked up from the barrels and are being taken to Laketown not from it.
For example The Bilbo/Gandalf scene is in broad dallingt in open country so must be right at the begnning of the film before they get to Beorns place.
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Oct 5 2013, 6:13am
Post #7 of 19
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In the Earlier Trailer when they enter Laketown
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It showed the 14 Barrels with their covers on,
so it seems Bard sneaks them in.
Looked as though it is early Dawn.
Sooo it seems that Laketown is gunna be surprised
that our Company got past their sentries?
That reveal should be outstanding, since it seems
commerce w/ the Elves was very important.
Thinking about it some more, their lids were gone, so
it may mean they put the barrels on,
Upside down in the Boat, just before the eyes of
Any Guards.
Another interesting idea from New Zealand.
OR is Bomby jus' seeing things?
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DanielLB
Immortal
Oct 5 2013, 8:08am
Post #9 of 19
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Looks to me like Bard will ...
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Hide the Dwarves in the barrels, and cover them with fish. Perhaps Bard will try and sneak the Dwarves into Laketown, since the Master is also anti-Dwarf. We've also seen a shot of them trying to climb through a window in Laketown.
That makes sense, if Thorin is discussing whether they can trust Bard or not. Which begs the question ... why does Bard later try and stop the Dwarves from going to the Erebor. Surely he would want to know about the Quest first, before smuggling them all in.
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Cave Troll
Rivendell
Oct 5 2013, 8:27am
Post #10 of 19
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Bard is acting when he goes on his "destroy us all" rant, and he goes on to speak about how much gold there is there and the Master's all like "woah" and Bard's all like "yeah" and the dwarves are all like "yeah, there's gold but it is dangerous - we'll go home" and the Master's all like "now wait, hang on a second..."
(This post was edited by Cave Troll on Oct 5 2013, 8:28am)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Oct 5 2013, 8:47am
Post #11 of 19
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I think they're talking about the Master //
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Bernhardina
Rohan
Oct 5 2013, 11:21am
Post #12 of 19
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There are two different boats in those clips and I can't figure out why. Anyone have a clue?
ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY WALK INTO MORDOR - ONE FLIES, YOU FOOLS!
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Old Pilgrim
Rivendell
Oct 5 2013, 12:24pm
Post #13 of 19
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Because one boat is too small for the whole company?
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We have 13 Dwarves and a Hobbit so I guess one boat will be too small for all of them them since in FOTR there were only 3 member of the Fellowship in each boat. Or maybe the second boat will be using someone who guides them across the Long Lake.
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FaramirAndEowynMorningStar
Rohan
Oct 5 2013, 12:27pm
Post #14 of 19
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I am 99.9% certain that it is Bard!//
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 ....."Loyalty, Honor,
......A Willing Heart.
I can ask no more than that."
...... ~ Thorin Oakenshield
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Oct 5 2013, 12:44pm
Post #15 of 19
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http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-official-teaser-trailer-hd-mp4_000046421.jpg
It shows Clearly 14 Barrels in one Boat.
But can't make out if they covered in Fish,
It could just be Cloth.
It also looks like Bard is steering him through the Canal
towards to DrawBridge.
(This post was edited by Bombadil on Oct 5 2013, 12:46pm)
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Fleuz
Lorien
Oct 5 2013, 1:22pm
Post #16 of 19
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doesn't know the episode, where we saw the dwarfes with Bilbo in a boat they were not in the barrels anymore.
Maybe one boat is loaded with barrels an on the other the company ships to Esgaroth.
Bard is a fisher man.
But maybe two boats left Laketown to get some fish AND collect the monthly wine-delivery.
So two boats are plausible.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Oct 5 2013, 3:52pm
Post #17 of 19
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This is a Laketown scene so I say Bard most definitely.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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Bladerunner
Gondor
Oct 6 2013, 5:15pm
Post #18 of 19
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I'm inclined to agree but curious about which form of betrayal the dwarves are concerned.
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Is Bard promising to slip them into Laketown? if so past whom? - the Master's guards? or a Mirkwood elves search party? (led by Tauriel?) or an Orc patrol? Or is he promising to take them closer to the Lonely Mountain only to present them to the Master instead.
I had also considered if this scene is of the dwarves "escaping" from Laketown on way to Erebor and being ferried through the edge of Dale so as to escape Elves or Orc patrols, but not sure about this. If so, this would make an intersting connection between this "barrel escape" from Lake-Town and the earlier barrel escape from Mirkwood. However, I can't make a convincing connection between the boat scene of Trailer 2 and the boat scene approaching the Lonely Mountain of Trailer 1.
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Dragonrnbw
Rivendell
Oct 6 2013, 7:41pm
Post #19 of 19
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This is what I think:
I have looked at screencaps of both scenes and it appears to be the same just different times. On the new trailer they are out of the barrels and sitting in front ( if you watch the Live Edition Sneak peek of Desolation of Smaug there is a scene where they are all out of the barrels and on the ship with Bard. Bard askes Bilbo what the quote the Hobbits have about going East...or something like that. If you compare pictures it looks the same!) It is also the same as when they ask "Can we trust him?" The ruins look to be similar to the battle scene with Azog. I think this is an outpost. If I am not mistaken in the book there are several places along the river where the elves gather the barrels, bind them together, and help them go up or down the river. It makes sense to me this is one of the areas. If you look at the screencaps of main trailer where the elves are in armor you can see a bucket - so I am making a leap there is water nearby. This would be an area where Bard would be near gathering and depositing barrels. So it makes sense he is in this area. So i am guessing it is an outpost of some sort. Due to Smaug it is no longer as busy as it was and therefor has fallen into ruin. Yet, the elves and men still use it.
The company looks to be staying out of sight of elves and orcs but they don't have to actually hide in the barrels.
They do hide in the barrels when they go into Laketown. If you look at V-log (8? I think) You see them in the barrels in Lake Town with fish...they are all wearing same outfits. When you look at screencaps from the new trailer where it is snowing and Bard and the company are in the town - the dwarfs have coats on them so I am guessing it is after they get off the boat and out of the barrels.
So in summary - first scene with ruins...start of trip...in boat going through Laketown..same trip just almost there hiding in barrels.
just my best guess
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for thou are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
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