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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Over-thinking is part of the fun of speculation!

Thranderz
Rohan


Sep 26 2013, 7:40pm


Views: 177
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Over-thinking is part of the fun of speculation! [In reply to] Can't Post


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how did Saruman know that the dwarves were coming to Rivendell - and enough in advance that he had time to get there and make a fuss about it? It's quite a trip from Isengard to Rivendell, and he wasn't usually a roamer. The dwarves *may* have been there a while by the time he arrived, but Elrond didn't seem sure what their quest was until he read their map, and by that time Saruman was already there and upset, based on Elrond's comment to Gandalf. So just what did Saruman hear, and from whom, that sent him up to Rivendell in a temper?

It's possible that Saruman was watching Gandalf via palantir and that's why he knew things he hadn't been told. They might be beginning the "traitor" setup already, but it would be a little early for the orc connection, as I've always thought Saruman's breeding program didn't start until he came under the influence of Sauron - and that would have been after Sauron set up in Mordor, I think. (Am I wrong? Do we have any solid dates for when Saruman turned?)

Azog has clearly sent word throughout orcdom that he is after Thorin, because the Goblin King tells Thorin he knows someone who is looking for him and then sends word. But the question is, who told Azog where to find Thorin? It's possible that it's TraitorSaruman who set Azog on their track, but if it wasn't, clearly somebody somewhere was talking about Thorin's quest to the wrong people.

Let's see, non-Saruman options....it isn't likely that Gandalf had told anyone that he was getting involved with Thorin's obsession, but someone might have seen them meeting and talking together before he started searching for a Thief to make the Lucky 14. Suspect #1: Somebody at the Prancing Pony in Bree. This would be a possible Saruman connection too, if someone there (a Bill Ferny or half-orc type) was in his pay as an informant.

Thorin was also meeting with all his kin, trying to convince them to join him on his quest, but the only one mentioned by name is Dain. Is there a spy among Dain's people, perhaps? Dain himself seems unlikely, unless he were tricked or they were going for a massive redemption arc. I haven't seen anything to indicate that his role is big enough for the latter, though. But maybe he's got a shifty second-in command?

Or possibly I'm overthinking this. Crazy


I simply walked into Mordor.

Subject User Time
Is there an informant or spy? Blkcpt Send a private message to Blkcpt Sep 26 2013, 4:58am
    I thought that, too Fleuz Send a private message to Fleuz Sep 26 2013, 5:05am
    It can be Old Pilgrim Send a private message to Old Pilgrim Sep 26 2013, 5:29am
    In canon Cirashala Send a private message to Cirashala Sep 26 2013, 5:35am
    Come to that... Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Sep 26 2013, 6:14am
        From the Tale of Years, Appendix B... Eleniel Send a private message to Eleniel Sep 26 2013, 6:21am
            Hmm... Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Sep 26 2013, 6:49am
                That is true, but Cillendor Send a private message to Cillendor Sep 27 2013, 7:59pm
        Thrain would Old Pilgrim Send a private message to Old Pilgrim Sep 26 2013, 6:38am
            If we focus on Thrain, then the question becomes Riven Delve Send a private message to Riven Delve Sep 26 2013, 5:12pm
        I had the impression that ... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Sep 26 2013, 6:56am
        I cannot really say anything about the filmverse based on the historic lore anymore, at least for some things, because AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 26 2013, 9:30am
        Over-thinking is part of the fun of speculation! Thranderz Send a private message to Thranderz Sep 26 2013, 7:40pm
    There is the Pallantir once harboured in Minas Ithil. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 26 2013, 9:23am
    I do not believe that there is a spy within Thorin's company Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 26 2013, 1:48pm
    Thrain nhui06 Send a private message to nhui06 Sep 26 2013, 3:58pm
        Pallantir, Pallantir, Pallantir. Sauron had one. He did NOT leave it idling in Minas Ithil. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 28 2013, 12:57am
            Sauruman did not use the Palantir til later, but Yngwulff Send a private message to Yngwulff Sep 29 2013, 3:54am
                Not Saruman's pallantir in Orthanc. Sauron's Pallantir, the Ithil Stone. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 29 2013, 6:14am

 
 
 

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