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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bridging the gap.

Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 26 2013, 5:09pm

Post #1 of 16 (1025 views)
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Bridging the gap. Can't Post

It occurs to me that if they're going to round off the last film with old Bilbo writing his memoirs as he did at the beginning of AUJ - ie. at the very start of FOTR, then the film-makers have a time gap available to them, to insert a few bridging scenes just before this - Gollum leaving the mountains and being captured by Sauron etc., giving a sense that things are brewing that our heroes are unaware of. That way, the bridging scenes won't seem like they're tacked on to the end of the film, as Bilbo and Frodo will be there to give it a proper full stop. Perhaps that's why they chose the story within a story technique.

And by the way, does anyone know when I get to leave Rivendell? I've been here for bleedin' ages.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2013, 5:53pm

Post #2 of 16 (569 views)
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Not until you've made 30 more posts: [In reply to] Can't Post

From the FAQ:

Quote
2.39 I noticed that different users have different titles under their usernames ... what do they mean? The titles listed under members’ usernames are automatically assigned by the system and are based on the total number of posts that a user has created on the message boards. They represent the journey the members of the Fellowship of the Ring made through Middle-earth and beyond, and are based on the following post counts:

Up to 9 posts: Registered User
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10,000+ posts: Immortal


I like the idea of having some bridge material, but I don't like the idea of it being within The Hobbit films. The story of Gollum would make an awesome DVD easter egg (or special scene). Evil As would scenes not in the original trilogy, such as the Siege of Lorien, Ghan, and even Tom Bombadil. They've got most of the actors and sets, I say do it! Wink



Bombadil
Half-elven


Sep 26 2013, 5:59pm

Post #3 of 16 (481 views)
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DLB beat Bomby to your answer? [In reply to] Can't Post

@ 220 , you'll need to reach 500
then, Maybe? 1000
go to the Feedback section here,
since they could give you
an Account of when you move...

Bomby likes the idea,
of Gollum
leaving at the
End of Film 3.

3 Shots at most..
when everyone is
SETTLED down
...and Smokin'
SATISFIED
in BagEnd.

But Bomby's opinion is just THAT?.

It would be a CliffHanger.


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Sep 26 2013, 6:00pm)


malickfan
Gondor


Sep 26 2013, 7:11pm

Post #4 of 16 (431 views)
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No thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Bridging Material is IMO completely uncessary and irrelevant to the story, it would needlessly pad out the films, when the story already has a perfect conclusion, and the whole idea has the air of deleted scenes tacked on as a marketing tool-you know those 'special editions' you get of films which are only a minute or two longer with pointless subplotty stuff?, furthermore I don't quite see how Gollum escaping from the mountains or Aragorn setting a watch on the shire would in anyway improve the storylines introduced in FOTR-when I was introduced to LOTR through the films I loved Aragorn's and Gollum's sudden introduction in the film, adding five or ten minutes of fan fiction fan service is totally pointless imo and would ruin the mystery of the characters...and anyway if we the audince see Gollum escape in TABA won't it be a bit boring or confusing for new viewers to not see Gandalf tracking him in FOTR?.

Personally I found the Frodo/Bilbo sequences very forced anyway, and much of the material culled from the vague notes in the appendices (such as the White Council) tacked on, and in some cases boring, I'd really rather not see Gollum again anyway, as I found his appearance in AUJ to be treated a bit like an in joke.

And there is probably not much point in saying this (as we know it's not the case) but these films are supposed to be adapting The Hobbit, showcasing Bilbo's small story first and foremost.

And in anycase I think there is something to be said for leaving SOME of the book out of the films-if every scrap of writing and backstory linking The Hobbit and LOTR is in the film, there where is the fun for new readers to visualise such scenes themselves, or fully appreicate The Hobbit as a seperate story on its own two feet, rather than merely a prequel to LOTR.

Just my thoughts.

I don't have much to say.



Thranderz
Rohan


Sep 26 2013, 7:36pm

Post #5 of 16 (407 views)
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I think I'd quite like it [In reply to] Can't Post

The final scene being Gollum clamber down the rocks of the Misty Mountains, that would be a very significant shot for me whilst the true significance would be unknown to the casual viewer...Wink

I simply walked into Mordor.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 26 2013, 11:10pm

Post #6 of 16 (326 views)
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30 more posts eh? [In reply to] Can't Post

Prepare for incoming gibberish.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Elizabeth
Valinor


Sep 27 2013, 1:43am

Post #7 of 16 (294 views)
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Sequences that are opaque to the casual user... [In reply to] Can't Post

...are generally poor film-making. Sure, Jackson throws in the occasional brief in-joke, but a whole scene of Gollum clambering down rocks to no obvious purpose would leave the viewer baffled and distracted from the essence of the story. Moreover, it would be a spoiler. Anything involving Rangers would be an even worse spoiler, since viewers are supposed to distrust that disreputable-looking guy in the Pony smoking his pipe.








Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 27 2013, 2:13am

Post #8 of 16 (277 views)
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I wasn't arguing for it, just speculating. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, well, speaking as someone who wanted The Hobbit filmed straight from the book, preferably in B&W, with the dwarves all having Swedish accents and the whole thing co-directed (via ouija board) by Ingmar Bergman to get that mournful, atmospheric Scandinavian feel; anyway, I was just trying to work out why PJ decided to start the film by telling the audience that our main hero survives the whole adventure alive, intact and apparently happy. It occurred to me that bookending the story with old Bilbo would stop the bridging scenes from coming off like a tacked-on ending, so that must be why he chose the bookending route. I wouldn't expect him to put in more than a few brief glimpses - Gollum leaving the mountains to look for Baggins (the fact that he talks to himself makes this easy to explain to the audience), Sauron sneaking into Mordor after withdrawing from Dol Guldur, Saruman looking a bit shifty - that kind of thing. Certainly no Aragorn - or anything as modern as the black riders being sent out or Gollum's capture by Strider.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to viewing the films in their correct order in just over a year's time, and after that, possibly someone will re-edit them to remove the worst of the non-book bits and produce a purist's edition.

28 posts to go. But why no Moria??

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Thranderz
Rohan


Sep 27 2013, 10:18am

Post #9 of 16 (211 views)
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I certainly wouldn't call it a spoiler! [In reply to] Can't Post

It would leave a great sense of mystery over what it could mean. Leading new fans to watch Lord of the Rings. I think it would be a great way to lead into LoTR - with it being such a simple scene yet having a great effect over the plot of the overall story.

I simply walked into Mordor.


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 27 2013, 12:24pm

Post #10 of 16 (185 views)
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Agree with this. [In reply to] Can't Post

It could work to have an epilogue that contains, for example, Balin leaving for Moria or some Sauron-Mordor thing, but even scenes like this I would probably save for the EE.

Aragorn, Gollum, the rangers... those are scenes I certainly do not want to see. In no version.



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Cillendor
Lorien

Sep 27 2013, 2:36pm

Post #11 of 16 (179 views)
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I have mixed feelings about this. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I was just trying to work out why PJ decided to start the film by telling the audience that our main hero survives the whole adventure alive, intact and apparently happy.


lol well he's alive throughout LOTR, and FOTR opens with his birthday party. So it makes sense to open with Old Bilbo—or rather, it doesn't not make sense.

I think I'd rather not see Gollum leaving. I mean, I'd love to see it because I want to see the real characters do it rather than the actors in that fan movie from a few years back. But I don't think it'd fit at all within the story. It'd feel very tacked-on.

I do hope they show Balin and the others leaving for Moria, though. It could just be an EE, but I doubt that most casual viewers would catch the relationship between Balin and Gimli in the Moria scene even if they watch them all back-to-back when TABA is out.


Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 27 2013, 2:50pm

Post #12 of 16 (177 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... anyway, I was just trying to work out why PJ decided to start the film by telling the audience that our main hero survives the whole adventure alive, intact and apparently happy.


I guess because Tolkien does.

This is a story of how a Baggins had an adventure, found himself doing and saying things altogether unexpected. He may have lost the neighbours’ respect, but he gained-well, you will see whether he gained anything in the endl.
-The Hobbit, Chapter 1, An Unexpected Party

LOTR is just as bad. Reading the Prologue in the book reveals Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin all survive The War of the Ring and, except for Frodo, have lots of kids and grandkids.

******************************************
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Sometime hours and hours hence:
In The Green Dragon two ales could buy
And drank the one less filling I
And that has made all the difference.
- The Ale Less Filling, by Robert Frostymug


Na Vedui
Rohan


Sep 27 2013, 3:03pm

Post #13 of 16 (176 views)
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If they do anything of this sort [In reply to] Can't Post

...it ought to be done very carefully so as not to spoil LOTR (films or book). "All-the-books-first" people know what's going to happen, and "LOTR-films-first" people know; but now the Hobbit films are out and about and it's a decade since the LOTR films, there will be quite a few people around (especially younger ones, perhaps, or people who didn't bother with LOTR themselves, but who now have kids to entertain) who encounter The Hobbit in book or film version before they meet LOTR.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 27 2013, 7:02pm

Post #14 of 16 (144 views)
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He didn't really. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
... anyway, I was just trying to work out why PJ decided to start the film by telling the audience that our main hero survives the whole adventure alive, intact and apparently happy.


I guess because Tolkien does.

This is a story of how a Baggins had an adventure, found himself doing and saying things altogether unexpected. He may have lost the neighbours’ respect, but he gained-well, you will see whether he gained anything in the endl.
-The Hobbit, Chapter 1, An Unexpected Party

LOTR is just as bad. Reading the Prologue in the book reveals Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin all survive The War of the Ring and, except for Frodo, have lots of kids and grandkids.


That sentence at the beginning of The Hobbit doesn't tell us anything much - it's obviously likely that he survives to the end of the book - due to the book's title, but he could have died at the BOFA and gained nothing but posthumous fame in the wider world and disapproval at home for going off and disappearing. Or he could have been injured, or corrupted or ended up not returning home but staying on under the mountain as an honorary dwarf. The film tells us at the beginning that none of these things happened. The book does not.

And I wouldn't consider the LOTR Prologue to be part of the story - I generally don't read prologues and introductions unless they are clearly meant to be part of the story, and Tolkien's densely written non-narrative prologue is obviously meant to be a collection of supplementary notes - it certainly does not read like the beginning of a tale and I doubt most people read it until after they've finished the whole thing.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Sep 27 2013, 8:08pm

Post #15 of 16 (135 views)
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Big Good bye [In reply to] Can't Post

The end of There and Back Again is a huge moment for both the community of film makers in Wellington and the audience that have come to love these films.

I do not expect to see anything further cinematically in my life time.

However they can be very proportionate in their response.

Those final lines between Balin, Gandalf and Bilbo can be replayed and expanded on just like most of the rest of the films. To hear about Dale and Erebor and to see them rebuilt would be wonderful but woven into the narrative can be some thing of the flavor of the ring which Tolkien had not fully discovered at the time of the Hobbit . A final scene with Bilbo left on his own considering it weighing it up and the audience being made aware that the necromancer is not banished that there is more to come would represent a simple connection.

More left field would be a final scene of Ian Holm writing the final words of the Hobbit closing the book and leave his room walking out into Rivendell where of course he finished his contribution to the Red Book. That would connect with the offer by Elrond that will be included in the EE. This might of course confuse the casual fan but if there are more building blocks toward it could work.

I feel certain that when all has happened the final pages will be focused entirely on Bilbo and that the story told represent his recollections. We will get back to where we started but much changed.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Sep 27 2013, 8:10pm)


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 27 2013, 9:03pm

Post #16 of 16 (141 views)
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I think he needs to stay in Bag End [In reply to] Can't Post

until the beginning of FOTR. Overlapping the time zones would make it harder to watch them in chronological order. There are many not yet born who will be watching these in the correct order, unlike their feckless parents who insisted on doing it the wrong way round. We must think of the children.

---------------------
24 posts to go, and I will be listening to Martin Csokas talking very very slowly.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."

 
 

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