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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
And yet I keep thinking ... *major spoilers*

Arandir
Gondor


Sep 25 2013, 8:26am

Post #1 of 13 (999 views)
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And yet I keep thinking ... *major spoilers* Can't Post

I know that most of you are going to hate me for bringing this up one more time but I just can't help thinking about Andy Serkis' interview with TotalFilm.

The topic in question is the famous (or maybe now "infamous"?) topic of Smaug's attack on Lake-town in DOS or TABA.Crazy

In the aforementioned interview (which you can find here around 0:55, the interviewer asks the cast and Peter Jackson about their most anticipated scenes in 'The Desolation of Smaug'.

Andy Serkis' response is clearly shrouded in mystery - he himself states that he can't reveal much however (and with a smirk forming over his face), he mentioned that "the Lake-town sequences are pretty extraordinary."

It's pretty vague and general as it may include three major sequences that we know of:

-The Bard/Master general storyline
-The Legolas/Orc-fighting narrative
-The Destruction of Lake-town


Out of these three, we can eliminate the first one and be quite certain that Andy is primarily referring to a specific action sequence, because as he continues to discuss in the interview, he says that "no matter how big the canvas is ... it's always about the small things" (or something similar).

And whilst we can't be certain of how the other two sequences will play out and who it will involve, I can't help but think that Andy is referring to Smaug's attack on Lake-town.

There, you certainly have a big action sequence where a lot of characters come into play and who, by then, the audience will be strongly rooting for: Bard, Bain, the general population, etc ...

I'm not saying it's a definite, because I myself am still torn between the DOS and TABA debate ...

I know, I know - "just wait for the film to be released", I agree. But I'm just getting this off my chest!Smile

Apologies! Blush

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 25 2013, 8:37am

Post #2 of 13 (482 views)
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I'm so sure 'it' will happen in DOS..... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that I'm willing to say so and look a complete idiot if it doesn't.

But I wouldn't worry about raising it again - I'm sure you won't be the last one! Wink


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 25 2013, 8:50am

Post #3 of 13 (465 views)
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I've been saying it [In reply to] Can't Post

for months now. So if it doesn't happen, we can look foolish together. Or very intelligent, depending. Wink

It's the end of the Dol Guldur storyline I'm thinking may carry over into TABA, along with the Laketown aftermath. That would make TABA not only the end of Bilbo's adventure, but effectively the "bridge film" that was once planned, with the Necromancer/Sauron reveal and the Bof5A setting up for the War of the Ring.

We shall see...in 78 days.

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



Arandir
Gondor


Sep 25 2013, 9:00am

Post #4 of 13 (421 views)
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Hah! Thanks for the support my fellow Ringer! [In reply to] Can't Post

Shall we put up a call and rally all the fans in favour of the DOS resolution?Tongue

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Noria
Rohan

Sep 25 2013, 2:20pm

Post #5 of 13 (327 views)
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I fully expect Smaug's attack on Laketown will be epic. [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ does that very, very well, IMO.

And I hope and expect that we will have come to know enough of the characters, especially Bard and his family, that it will have emotional resonance as well.

It all sounds good to me.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 25 2013, 2:27pm

Post #6 of 13 (323 views)
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A part for Bain? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
In the aforementioned interview (which you can find here around 0:55, the interviewer asks the cast and Peter Jackson about their most anticipated scenes in 'The Desolation of Smaug'.

Andy Serkis' response is clearly shrouded in mystery - he himself states that he can't reveal much however (and with a smirk forming over his face), he mentioned that "the Lake-town sequences are pretty extraordinary."

It's pretty vague and general as it may include three major sequences that we know of:

-The Bard/Master general storyline
-The Legolas/Orc-fighting narrative
-The Destruction of Lake-town


Out of these three, we can eliminate the first one and be quite certain that Andy is primarily referring to a specific action sequence, because as he continues to discuss in the interview, he says that "no matter how big the canvas is ... it's always about the small things" (or something similar).

And whilst we can't be certain of how the other two sequences will play out and who it will involve, I can't help but think that Andy is referring to Smaug's attack on Lake-town.



Perhaps, instead of the Black Arrow being the last one in Bard's quiver, Bain recovers it from the field of battle and brings it back to his father.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Sep 25 2013, 2:47pm

Post #7 of 13 (305 views)
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I'm content to wait and see [In reply to] Can't Post

but your reasons seem very likely. I would really like it if DOS *ended* with the attack on Laketown, as in *spoilers, if this tag is necessary* Bard shoots Smaug, Smaug falls on the lake, possibly we see Bard jumping into the water, and then the credits roll. The audience will be howling with frustration and will *definitely* be ready to come back to see TABA, as they might not be if they think everything has been nicely arranged. Trolled audiences may be angry audiences, but they will also come back for more to find out how it ends.

Dunno, just me rambling. Looking at the LOTR movies, it's much more likely that Laketown will be resolved and we'll start see things for the BOFA getting into gear, as we did at the end of TTT with Gandalf looking out to Mordor and reminding the rest that the war is not over.

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


The Mitch King
Rohan


Sep 25 2013, 4:28pm

Post #8 of 13 (284 views)
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Well *spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

It always comes back to whether or not Smaug dying in the second movie will turn people off of the third movie in some way. All of the previous ME movie don't really have cliffhangers so it would be weird to have DoS end with Smaug flying off towards Laketown. It also depends on the added scenes with Smaug that non of us really have a clue about. I still can see it going either way.

I would prefer to have DG finished in DoS but, given the title of the movie, Smaug needs to be in it a lot. I think the whole Sauron thing is going to end up connecting to the BoFA anyways so it kind of works itself out if DG is finished in TABA.


Elskidor
Rohan

Sep 25 2013, 4:39pm

Post #9 of 13 (268 views)
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There won't be a massive cliffhanger [In reply to] Can't Post

Just by judging on the previous films, there will be closure on the main DoS movie's plot, but leave room for a suspenseful pick up for the following movie and the overall tale.


DjU
Lorien

Sep 25 2013, 5:14pm

Post #10 of 13 (248 views)
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but.. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I know that most of you are going to hate me for bringing this up one more time but I just can't help thinking about Andy Serkis' interview with TotalFilm.

The topic in question is the famous (or maybe now "infamous"?) topic of Smaug's attack on Lake-town in DOS or TABA.Crazy

In the aforementioned interview (which you can find here around 0:55, the interviewer asks the cast and Peter Jackson about their most anticipated scenes in 'The Desolation of Smaug'.

Andy Serkis' response is clearly shrouded in mystery - he himself states that he can't reveal much however (and with a smirk forming over his face), he mentioned that "the Lake-town sequences are pretty extraordinary."

It's pretty vague and general.....


Andy did say that but he's ultimately not the Director nor the Editor so he may have no more actual idea of the final edit or content anymore than some of the cast, many of which don't really seem to know much! (although they probably do by now due to things like ADR etc)

One thing we must remember is, Yes, Andy was the 2nd Unit Director, so therefore has a huge understanding of what was shot HOWEVER Principal Shooting ended in July 2012, bar the refining and changing of AUJ in the closing stages of principal filming he would have not likely been on board when the bulk of the transformation from 2 films to 3 films happened (i.e AUJ post onwards) therefore may not be any the wiser, to assume he does would be a guess.

I'm pretty sure wasn't available back for the pickup/BoFA block this year (If the pickups last day rolling blog is anything to go the 2nd unit was oversaw by Christian Rivers) as he was filming Planets of the Apes sequel

Andy Serkis's heavy involvement in the project most likely ended over ago.

Just something to consider.


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 25 2013, 5:19pm

Post #11 of 13 (243 views)
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Very true ... however [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Andy did say that but he's ultimately not the Director nor the Editor so he may have no more actual idea of the final edit or content anymore than some of the cast, many of which don't really seem to know much! (although they probably do by now due to things like ADR etc)

One thing we must remember is, Yes, Andy was the 2nd Unit Director, so therefore has a huge understanding of what was shot HOWEVER Principal Shooting ended in July 2012, bar the refining and changing of AUJ in the closing stages of principal filming he would have not likely been on board when the bulk of the transformation from 2 films to 3 films happened (i.e AUJ post onwards) therefore may not be any the wiser, to assume he does would be a guess.


I'm pretty sure that Andy had a very clear idea of how the films were structured - having read the scripts and all.

Yes, he was 2nd unit director right until the decision of splitting the two films into three was made - nonetheless, a big sequence such as that would certainly not have remained unknown to him as to where it was placed ...

Dunno really, just guessing Laugh

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 27 2013, 2:54am

Post #12 of 13 (92 views)
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They need to get rid of Smaug in the second film [In reply to] Can't Post

in order to have time to get through the BOFA and set up the battle with the film's biggest villain - Lobelia Sackville-Baggins.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 27 2013, 12:38pm

Post #13 of 13 (86 views)
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Until the last minute... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I will hope the destruction of Laketown will be in TABA.

I hope this will be the major storylines for DoS:


1) Journey through Mirkwood (Beorn, Spiders, Thranduil, Barrels)
2) Legolas/Tauriel/Thranduil conflict
3) Bard/Mayor storyline
4) Journey through Laketown and Erebor with the finale of the riddles and Smaug burning the mountainside
5) Gandalf and White Council with the finale of a skirmish at Dol Guldur



A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.

 
 

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