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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Other actors who could have played Aragorn
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frodolives
Lorien

Sep 18 2013, 6:42pm

Post #76 of 127 (2420 views)
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He wasn't much older than Viggo [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
He would be a more mature in age Aragorn. Not quite as handsome.

Keep in mind that Hinds was about 45 in 1999; a perfect age for Aragorn IMHO. He's got a commanding voice and presence, a weathered face, etc. He will always be my dream choice for the role.


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Sep 18 2013, 6:45pm

Post #77 of 127 (2408 views)
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I think the Golden Ratio and Pi are being used for proportions [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.goldennumber.net/face/


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Sep 18 2013, 6:54pm

Post #78 of 127 (2411 views)
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golden spiral [In reply to] Can't Post

 
perhaps if cate blanchet's nose was in the shape of a nautilus shell, it might be considered logarithmically perfect. also, a fibonacci spiral nose would be equally acceptable.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Sep 18 2013, 6:57pm

Post #79 of 127 (2419 views)
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Indeed! Nautilus nose. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 19 2013, 6:36pm

Post #80 of 127 (2403 views)
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Mortensen has plenty of charisma [In reply to] Can't Post

The fact that Viggo has not been involved in blockbusters since LOTR has absolutely nothing to do with his level of charisma as an actor – of which he has plenty. His involvement in smaller, independent films has entirely been his choice. He has always chosen roles based on his interest in the story and the quality of director/script, not based on the budget or Hollywood marketing machine. His well-deserved renown following the LOTR trilogy has enabled him to decline roles that didn’t meet his personal criteria, while enabling him to select those that did. His renown following LOTR also enabled him to establish his own publishing house to publish the works of artists and photographers who might not otherwise get exposure.
He has received numerous accolades and awards from those in the film community that recognize the level of dedication, skill, and charisma that he brings to all his roles. He was nominated for a Best Actor Oscar a couple years ago, as well as a couple Golden Globes as prime examples.


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 19 2013, 6:41pm

Post #81 of 127 (2395 views)
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Viggo is majestic [In reply to] Can't Post

I totally disagree……….Viggo does indeed demonstrate a sense of majesty as his character transitions from Ranger to King in ROTK. Not only do the shifts in his costuming, hair, etc., show this transition, but also his demeanor as he leads the Men of the West to the Black Gate. I find his Black Gate speech to be one filled with raw emotion and energy, and completely in keeping with what one would expect on the verge of a battle none might survive. At his coronation, it makes perfect sense that he should take a deep breath – it’s not every day that one becomes a king after all. Stepping into that role, whether one’s prepared for it all his life or not, is not something to be taken lightly. When the sheer weight of responsibility settles on one’s shoulders at last, it would be ridiculous to act like it’s a walk in the park. I think Viggo’s handling of that moment was right on target, as was his song – melody composed by the actor himself – delivered flawlessly in Tolkien’s Elvish script.


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 19 2013, 6:43pm

Post #82 of 127 (2411 views)
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The Treasure we did get [In reply to] Can't Post

While talking about other “could-have-beens” for the role of Aragorn, let’s not overlook the absolute treasure that we DID get in Viggo. From day 1, he was 100% committed to this project and very quickly came to be known as “no-ego Viggo” by the cast and crew. He approached the role of Aragorn with a level of intensity and devotion that did not go unnoticed by his cast mates. I think it would be hard to find another actor who would have approached this role with this level of dedication.
Viggo is an actor who does indeed have incredible screen presence and charisma – one who can speak volumes with his eyes and overall expressions without ever having to say a word. This is the guy who showed up on set with no prior preparation for the role – given the circumstances of his casting – with a copy of the Volsunga Saga tucked under his arm. This is the guy that practically lived in his costume, often mending, and laundering it himself, and who did his own stunts throughout the grueling production. He took to the Elvish dialect and sword fighting like a duck to water – despite the LOTR films being his first introduction to both.


(This post was edited by walkman87 on Sep 19 2013, 6:48pm)


Brethil
Half-elven


Sep 19 2013, 7:16pm

Post #83 of 127 (2377 views)
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I agree here Walkman - and Welcome! // [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I totally disagree……….Viggo does indeed demonstrate a sense of majesty as his character transitions from Ranger to King in ROTK. Not only do the shifts in his costuming, hair, etc., show this transition, but also his demeanor as he leads the Men of the West to the Black Gate. I find his Black Gate speech to be one filled with raw emotion and energy, and completely in keeping with what one would expect on the verge of a battle none might survive. At his coronation, it makes perfect sense that he should take a deep breath – it’s not every day that one becomes a king after all. Stepping into that role, whether one’s prepared for it all his life or not, is not something to be taken lightly. When the sheer weight of responsibility settles on one’s shoulders at last, it would be ridiculous to act like it’s a walk in the park. I think Viggo’s handling of that moment was right on target, as was his song – melody composed by the actor himself – delivered flawlessly in Tolkien’s Elvish script.


Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!








walkman87
Registered User

Sep 19 2013, 7:37pm

Post #84 of 127 (2374 views)
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Thanks, Brethil!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 19 2013, 8:05pm

Post #85 of 127 (2397 views)
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I respect your opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

But I also don't believe that he would have happened as a big movie leading man if he'd been offered those roles. Hidalgo was supposed to be that role and it tanked right during the ROTK and Aragorn and Viggo-s-the-next-action-hero hype. They tried to position him as the real deal - buys horses from the set, best swordsman Bob Anderson ever trained, roasts roadkills, sleeps with a sword, you name it - and nobody cared. I see nothing insulting in saying that his crossappeal isn't as big as of actors such as Jackman, Downey, Depp, Pitt,etc. Very few actros have that kind of presence and he isn't one of them.

Also, I found his injection of his policital views during LOTR promotion very off putting. Movie press conference is not a place where you wear "no blood for oil" shirt. You are paid to promote a movie not your political stance. That was just a sbad as TomKat promoting TomKat at War of the Worlds and Batman Begins press conferences.

And there are those really poorly timed jabs at ROTK's action orientation over character orientation that he spouted during ROTK Best Picture campaign while promoting Hildago. very uncool. I'm sorry but I cannot bring myself to drink his Cool Aid but that's that. I've seen better actors, more engaging personalities and definitely better team players.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



sycorax82
Rohan

Sep 19 2013, 11:47pm

Post #86 of 127 (2409 views)
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Hidalgo is the reason Viggo left blockbusters [In reply to] Can't Post

Viggo was the lead in the Disney film, Hidalgo, out in 2004, and while it's by no means awful it didn't make the money Disney wanted it to. I'm not sure it made it's budget back.....


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 20 2013, 9:18am

Post #87 of 127 (2374 views)
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I have to disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion. I'm sorry you don't seem to have much respect for this actor. But the facts bear witness to certain things:
As to whether or not Viggo is and was a team player on LOTR or any of a host of his other movies, you need look no further than what those who have worked with him have to say about their experiences. In countless interviews, those cast members and crew who've labored alongside Viggo are effusive about his work ethic, his generosity, his humility, and his personal charm. The LOTR behind-the-scenes videos are full of those accolades, but those sentiments can also be found in other interviews with cast/crew as well as in reunions among cast members. Viggo himself has described the close bonds he's made with those with whom he's worked and about how he has dear memories of those connections. To this day, he remains close friends with his cast mates.

He is excellent at his craft, generous with fans, and a thoughtful participant in interviews, whether promoting a movie or not. I've followed his career for years, and beside the fact that I may not agree with his politics, he - like anyone else - has the right to express his beliefs.

Also, as I recall, Hidalgo made over $66 million dollars domestically within the first few weeks of its release........compared to a lot of films, I don't call that tanking. Again, Viggo has turned down a number of "big budget" film roles since LOTR - not because they were big budget, but because the stories or other aspects of the particular production weren't what he desired to do at that time. He has always made his film choices based on his personal criteria of story interest, director/script, and the opportunity for a new/different challenge.


(This post was edited by walkman87 on Sep 20 2013, 9:22am)


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 20 2013, 12:18pm

Post #88 of 127 (2369 views)
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Sorry, have to add some specific examples... [In reply to] Can't Post

We’ll have to agree to disagree, but as opposed to looking at a person’s choice of shirt for the day, let’s focus instead on how that person treats other people. In the latter regard, here are some specific examples of Viggo’s generous spirit and his nature as a team player:

Liv Tyler’s stunt rider “Jane”, who rode Arwen’s horse in the FOTR Nazgul chase scene, had developed a strong bond with the horse. At the end of the long shoot when a number of horses were being sold, Jane apparently had little hope her bid to buy the horse would be successful. In her words, she was competing with a lot of higher level production people. Unbeknownst to her, Viggo successfully bid on the horse on Jane’s behalf and gave it to her. Jane’s tearful recollection of that gift in the special features is quite moving.

One of Viggo’s passions is photography. He made a point to compile a photographic diary of the entire journey of cast and crew, documenting (in addition to main cast) many of the “unsung” heroes behind-the-scenes – stuntees, extras, and crew. He has shared many of those images over the years with fans worldwide – most recently in special magazine issues commemorating the 10th anniversary of FOTR’s release. This photo diary is a beautiful picture of the friendships that developed through the extraordinary experience.

Viggo was part and parcel of the extraordinary camaraderie that enveloped the cast of the trilogy, often preparing dinners for the group at his home and also participating in a number of festive group gatherings including a Thanksgiving feast on set that he helped prepare.

He was legendary for working through injury and pain – without complaint – to complete a scene and stay on schedule. His broken tooth and broken toes serve as prime examples.

Through strength of his personality – and charisma – he was identified by cast and crew as a natural leader – on and off set. Orlando Bloom recently said in an interview that when he looks back on those early days of his career, the person who had the most impact on him as a person was Viggo. Orlando went on to say how fortunate he was to have been around Viggo at that critical part of his career.

Viggo’s answer to those who’ve asked him what’s important in the acting profession goes something like this: Be on time and listen; give your best in every scene even when the camera is not focused on you; be reliable.

Looking back on his work on LOTR, in particular, he has continued to extol the high level of teamwork that made it possible for cast and crew to endure the grueling nature of the project. He still refers often to his LOTR “family” and to the “family atmosphere” that made that project so special in his life.


(This post was edited by walkman87 on Sep 20 2013, 12:20pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 20 2013, 2:37pm

Post #89 of 127 (2558 views)
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team player... [In reply to] Can't Post

your comments reminded me of something I noted in the post I wrote about the actor who almost played Theoden (I linked to it in my other comment in this thread).

That is, the stunties did a haka for Bernard and Viggo and it seemed clear to me that they would not have done this for 'show.' I think they take the history of haka seriously and I think they had very high esteem and respect for both Bernard and Viggo.
http://www.myvideo.de/...t_Team_does_the_Haka

I think identifying Viggo as 'not a team player' may come down to his personality. I suspect he's a bit of an introvert who is not highly comfortable in public situations (thus not participating as fully as more extroverted cast and crew in red carpet or behind the scenes promo stuff). And I've never taken him as one of those people who is the life of the party... an always *on* entertainer. But I think, as you've said, he's shown over and over that when it comes to work he's in there giving his all and creating an atmosphere of respect for everyone involved.

Recognizing and respecting differences in personality are important. Someone who is shy or reserved can come off as aloof or snooty to some people. Someone who is exuberant and animated can come off as pushy or intrusive. Especially to people who have the opposite types of personalities! :-)

On a whim, I googled Viggo Mortensen Myers Briggs and got a page that identified him as ISFP. The portrait of an ISFP personality is here: http://www.personalitypage.com/ISFP.html

Now, I doubt that we can know with any certainty that some website has correctly identified Viggo's MB profile. But read the description of "The Artist." To my eyes, that fits Viggo quite well.

I used to think I was really just too odd to bear. Growing up and into young adulthood.... no one I knew was like me. No one I knew thought like me. And lots of them mocked or scolded me for not being more 'like them'. When I heard about Myers Briggs and identified my personality it was like coming home. That description (not the same as Viggos!) fit me to a T and I didn't feel so alone and - I guess I am odd, but it's not because I'm bad or flawed. It's because that's my personality makeup. I can try to make it work for me and work around it but I'm not really going to be radically different than the person I've always been. Less than 4% of the population has a personality type like me which explained those feelings that I wasn't like other people.

I am grateful for every friend who *gets* me (whether my oddities annoy them or not) and either appreciates finding a kindred spirit or has the grace to not judge me for not being like them. I try to, as often as I can, extend the same courtesy. With Viggo it's not so hard because, although we're not the same MB personality type, we're not that far apart, either. I identify with him quite strongly. And, after all the stuff I've seen from him and about him, I have quite high respect for him.

As for box office revenues and what level meets the criteria of tanking (a bit loaded, that word)... I don't think he cares too much about it and I know I don't. I liked Hildalgo. That's what matters to me. I'm more invested in finding and identifying what makes me happy than determining what the masses of the world think is important and stepping in time with their opinions.

;-)


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by dernwyn on Sep 20 2013, 3:57pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 20 2013, 2:39pm

Post #90 of 127 (2343 views)
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well said. [In reply to] Can't Post

and a most hearty welcome to TORn, walkman87!


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 20 2013, 3:03pm

Post #91 of 127 (2338 views)
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Nicely Said [In reply to] Can't Post

You are right....I appreciate your comments. Viggo is well loved by the cast and crew of LOTR.

Viggo is not one to go to all the fantasy conventions and so forth. And he tends to fly below the radar as far as the standard Hollywood stereotype is concerned. I read somewhere about him that he would much rather be walking outside barefoot than walking on the red carpet in the glitzy air of Hollywood. He's very much a down-to-earth kind of guy - he doesn't have a personal assistant and he does his own laundry and washes his dishes by hand - the latter because it gives him time to reflect about the important stuff.

Far from being stand-offish, Viggo is just shy by nature. But he is completely comfortable in his own skin and would go to the mat to help a friend in need. I've read reports of him visiting total strangers in the hospital, donating books to schools in need, etc. He even showed up unannounced from out of town to comfort the mother of a young soldier who had just been killed in the Iraq War back in 2004.

On the LOTR set, he often showed up with flowers for the crew. He stayed up late at night faxing handwritten ideas for the next days' scenes to PJ and co.

Jed Brophy (one of the featured Orcs in TTT; also in the Hobbit) once said that working with Viggo is what made the LOTR experience special for him.

So, all this to say, that his shy personality and desire not to seek the limelight in no way diminishes the love he has for the LOTR project, the people he worked with, and the fans of the trilogy. Just last year, for instance, he was honored with an award at a prestigious theater in Boston. During the week leading up to the awards program, the theater showed a retrospective of Viggo movies including an extended version LOTR movie marathon. Viggo showed up unannounced before the beginning of ROTK to introduce the film and greet the fans. The place went nuts with joy upon seeing Viggo. He spent about 5 minutes talking and joking with the crowd and then treated them to his coronation song 'a capella.' The next day at the press Q & A, he charmed the journalists with thoughtful and insightful answers to questions, including ones posed by TORn's own greendragon. Later that day he led the audience in a sing-a-long of his ROTK coronation song.

IMO, the man is Gold. Humble, down to earth, dedicated, and generous.


walkman87
Registered User

Sep 20 2013, 3:15pm

Post #92 of 127 (2328 views)
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Thanks, Magpie!!!!!!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I appreciate all your comments!!!!!!!!!!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 20 2013, 4:17pm

Post #93 of 127 (2325 views)
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Hidalgo boxoffice facts [In reply to] Can't Post

It costed 100M to make, sans marketing (which would be at least 50M at the time). Had an opening weekend of a very soft 18.8M at the domestic boxoffice. Reason why studios value opening weekend so high is that they make the most money from it as they retain the highest % of the gross. After 10 days theaters cut bigger % for themselves so studios make significantly less. Also, % that studios recover from foreign markets is even lower. So, in Hildago's case, out of its 108M worldwide gross, studio saw much less.

Hidalgo ended up with 67.3M domestic gross and did even worse internaitonally, nabbing a paltry 40.8M. For a movie to get its budget back aka breka even, it needs to make twice the budget (due to cut offs that I mentioned before). So it was not profitable from theatrical run and should be classified as a flop.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 20 2013, 4:35pm

Post #94 of 127 (2339 views)
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Saying that ROTK sacrificed character for ramping up acton [In reply to] Can't Post

during the movie's Best Picture campaign, that tried to posion the movie not a sa fantasy but as a war drama, was not a team playing. Since he is an intellignet man, he knew that comment like that was ill-timed and could have bad consequences. So I'd say he wanted it to be known that he found FOTR a superior character piece and ROTK lacking because of emphasis on action. In short, not a Best Picture. Now, while I perfectly agree with that assessment, I disgree with the timing and occasion. If your team is trying to win Best Picture than don't make comments that mean it is not the best picture. If you don't think it's the best keep it to yourself. There are way to say nice things without lying. If you think character was lacking and action was too much, praise production values, your co-stars acting, Shore's score,etc not the script or direction. Very simple.

I'm perfectly aware that his cast members praised him in behind the scenes fetaures and interviews (not that they would say anything negative about anyone during the movie promo blitz...Sean Astin's scathing book came out when movies left theaters). I'm just saying that there were few events where his team playing was not on display and this was one occasion. Another is "no blood for oil". Again, as an intelligent man, he must have known that stunts like that draw attention to a stunt-puller only, not the cause. So if you want war effort to get attention, not yourself, bring it where it belongs - ploitical debate, anti-war protest, pro-war protest,etc - not a movie press conference. Likewise, if the stuio that pays you pretty money to promote the movie wants to milk current political events and their rep says something like "our good guys are akin to America in war on terror and Saruman is like Sadam" don't jump in with your view that it's actually the opposite, good guys poor Iraquis and bad guys America. Keep it to yourself. You don't have to agree and nod heads but open disagreement is poor taste.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Magpie
Immortal


Sep 20 2013, 4:50pm

Post #95 of 127 (2329 views)
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can you point me to a source/citation on that comment? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not one I've run across before.

Quote
"Saying that ROTK sacrificed character for ramping up acton ..."


As for the rest, I'm not really trying to change your mind so I'll leave you with your thoughts and opinions. Just keep in mind that what you judge him negatively for... others will value and respect him for. It's another lesson I've learned over the years. The one thing that some people praised me for... were exactly the same things other people criticized me for. There was no ONE RIGHT WAY I could behave that would make everyone like me and everyone approve of me. So I stuck with what my heart told me was right. "You can't please everyone so ya - gotta please yourself*." Also, I realize that if I wanted people to cut me some slack and have an open heart toward me... I had to extend the same to them. It works for me way more than my 24 year old self would have believed. :-)


*John Fogerty, "Garden Party"


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by Magpie on Sep 20 2013, 4:50pm)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 4:53pm

Post #96 of 127 (2315 views)
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Boxoffice does not tell the whole story [In reply to] Can't Post

These days, boxoffice offers a far from complete picture of a movie's profitability. There are home-video sales (DVD and Blu-ray) rentals, broadcast and cable viewings, digital downloads and streaming, not to mention re-releases. MGM's The Wizard of Oz famously tanked upon its original release.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 20 2013, 6:36pm

Post #97 of 127 (2305 views)
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That's true but if you want a big opening for a big movie [In reply to] Can't Post

you don't call actors who couldn't do it.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 20 2013, 6:41pm

Post #98 of 127 (2339 views)
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it was from an interview where he also said that Seabiscuit [In reply to] Can't Post

should have been more about the horse and less about Tobey Maguire. I'm sure that some of his fan sites have in in 2003-2004 archieves.

I don't disrespect him. I just think he's overrated in Ringer circles and I've frankly seen better actors with more dynamic, engaging perosnalities.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 20 2013, 6:43pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Sep 20 2013, 10:20pm

Post #99 of 127 (2296 views)
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I've done some digging and I can't find it [In reply to] Can't Post

A lot of links have gone bad but it seems out of character for him and I'd like to read what he said exactly and in context.

Too bad we can't find it. Without it, my opinion of him remains unchanged.

I don't think we should be judging actors on how dynamic or engaging their personality is. We should judge them when they're working as an actor.

http://teamcoco.com/...he-d-never-be-a-star

cheers to differences in opinion. :-)


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 21 2013, 2:37am

Post #100 of 127 (2319 views)
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It was a Canadian interview, I think [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that actors' work shouldn't be judged by personality (Orlando Bloom - great engaging personality, plank of wood actor) but I'm really not impressed with Mortensen. He's a hit and miss for me. Works better in shady type of roles, and quirky supporting parts. Stoic heroes are his least impressive incarnations, IMO.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.


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