Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Why it is important that Galadriel (whom I love) not be the Glinda of The Hobbit, nor relate to The Wizards as
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page Last page  View All

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 1:21am

Post #1 of 157 (18141 views)
Shortcut
Why it is important that Galadriel (whom I love) not be the Glinda of The Hobbit, nor relate to The Wizards as Can't Post

    
as Glinda did to Dorothy, Oz, or even the lesser Witch of The North. There would be so many problems with that scenario. Galadriel has great power, but she definitely should not come into Dol Guldur as a Deus Ex Machina in the same way that Gandalf does for the dwarves. Gandalf is able to provide that Deus Ex Machina for the dwarves (being truly a god in the worldly machine) because he is substantially more powerful than they. I certainly hope that such a disparity in power is not suggested by these films to exist between Galadriel and The Wizards.

There are moments when it almost seems the filmmakers (and I know that they know better) have mistaken The Wizards for human sorcerers, so that Galadriel, being an Elf Witch, would natrually be far greater. They are, of course, NOT human sorcerers. They are Angels in facimilies of human forms.

If the Dol Guldur sitiuation is portrayed as everyone EXCEPT for Galadriel having a hard, perilous time, and barely making it out, whilst she passes through like an impervious goddess, it would be beyond a travesty. She is mighty and she is fair, but she has limits, and her limitations would not be notably fewer or less than those of Gandalf and Saruman. She would not be a gaurunteed victor in a battle with a Balrog, and she almost certainly would not survive such a battle, any more than any other Noldor, even if she did manage to also destroy the incarnation of her foe. Sauron could not look into her mind, but neither could he invade the minds of the other two bearers of The Elf Rings. I hope the filmmakers will handle this very careful and with due consideration.

Galadriel is a match for Glinda, but Gandalf is no Dorothy, and he is certainly no charlatan. He and the other Wizards are also very real Powers, and it would be terrible to have them come across as an amatuer act before The Lady of THe Golden Wood.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Sep 20 2013, 1:22am)


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Sep 20 2013, 1:57am

Post #2 of 157 (822 views)
Shortcut
Well said AinurOlorin [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree wholehearedly As powerful as Galadriel is, she shouldn't be the ONLY one who as no trouble getting through Dol Guldor. Either they all make it without trouble, or they all have trouble, simply because it makes sense. Galadriel is an elf, Radagast, Gandalf and Saruman are wizards, not human sorcerer's.
I too hope the filmmakers will handle carefully and with consideration. Mind you, they're are quite a few things they need to handle carefully and with consideration, but I won't mention here, otherwise things might go way off topic.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 2:10am

Post #3 of 157 (807 views)
Shortcut
Thank You, Agreed, and indeed. [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed about many things needing to be handled with care as well. And yes, all have a hard time of it or none do. Really, it should be a difficult road for all of them. We need to see her sweat here and be put to the test, just like the others, otherwise it undermines not only The Wizards, but also Sauron and the danger of Dol Guldur. Her brother Finrod Felagund perished in the dungeons of Sauron. She should be fierce and wrathful here, but not impervious, and not entirely fearless either. Most of all, she should not be the Goddess before whom the Wizards are just an opening act.

In Reply To
I agree wholehearedly As powerful as Galadriel is, she shouldn't be the ONLY one who as no trouble getting through Dol Guldor. Either they all make it without trouble, or they all have trouble, simply because it makes sense. Galadriel is an elf, Radagast, Gandalf and Saruman are wizards, not human sorcerer's.
I too hope the filmmakers will handle carefully and with consideration. Mind you, they're are quite a few things they need to handle carefully and with consideration, but I won't mention here, otherwise things might go way off topic.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Sep 20 2013, 3:19am

Post #4 of 157 (779 views)
Shortcut
Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

In reading the speculation about the Dol Guldor plot, I have been saying to myself," I hope that Galadriel doesn't show Saruman or Gandalf up!" As much as I would like to see the formerWink, the latter would be just wrong!! It was Saruman's "devices" that cleared up the mess that was Dol Guldor, and I hope that we will see a satisfying plot ending to this story. They are Maiar, for goodness sake!!

On a side note, I hope that they focus more on "Sauron: Returned" over "Sauron: Necromancer". It would blend much better with LotR, and that was the point, isn't it?


Old Pilgrim
Rivendell


Sep 20 2013, 5:58am

Post #5 of 157 (682 views)
Shortcut
We are on the same mind here [In reply to] Can't Post

and I completely agree with you. In AUJ Galadriel was already potrayed like she was in higher stature than Gandalf as he should answer to her about his adventure to Erebor. While I didn't like that it was still bearable and her relation with Gandalf was very nice and friendly just before he leaves Rivendell, not superior in any way. They should continue that way and show her as his friend and ally who may be more proud and elegant (because of Gandalf's humble nature and his body of an old men) but definitely not more powerful when we are talking about true Power or magic if you like.

I am afraid that they will picture Galadriel as a Deux Ex Machina in Dol Guldur as Boyens already stated that she is the most powerful beeing in Middle Earth at the time of the Hobbit. That is of course not true but if she will stay behind her words we can see her doing great miracles in battle while Gandalf and other wizards will be pretty much helpless against the Necromancer and his minions. I hope that I am mistaken and wizards will be shown equal to Galadriel if not more powerful then she is. The perfect scenario would be if Gandalf, Saruman and Radagast are fighting the Necromancer, Elrond and an elven army are fighting orcs and trolls and Galadriel would join only at the end to throw down the walls of Dol Guldur once Sauron is already bannished and the battle is over.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 11:19am

Post #6 of 157 (647 views)
Shortcut
Er..... who's Glinda? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Bombadil
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 11:58am

Post #7 of 157 (654 views)
Shortcut
Dmouse...Glinda was played by Billy Burke was.... [In reply to] Can't Post

"The Good Witch of the North"
who arrives in MunchinTown

(a sorta Hobbiton?)
in a Bubble?

Cooolest way to travel (by the way)
...early in some early
Judy Garland Movie...

Lest you forget?


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 12:47pm

Post #8 of 157 (633 views)
Shortcut
Thank'ee! [In reply to] Can't Post

In that case, no problem. Somehow I can't imagine Galadriel travelling by bubble....

It always helps to know what people are talking about! Wink


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 20 2013, 2:58pm

Post #9 of 157 (655 views)
Shortcut
As goofy as this film version of Radagast is... [In reply to] Can't Post

...even he should not be made to look like an amateur next to an elf, even a high-born Noldor like Galadriel.

I seriously hope Ms. Boyens has been made aware of how off-the-mark her Galadriel comment was.

BTW Ainur, this sort of reminds me of something I read in the lotr wiki entry on the Nazgul. Look in the section under "Weaknesses", and read the last paragraph, I'm sure you will get a kick out of that final sentence Crazy

Here's a link - http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Nazg%C3%BBl


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Sep 20 2013, 3:06pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 3:27pm

Post #10 of 157 (614 views)
Shortcut
I am amazed [In reply to] Can't Post

that you have not seen "The Wizard of OZ"! It is a definite must see for any fantasy buff.

KS

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 3:30pm

Post #11 of 157 (586 views)
Shortcut
I have seen it, honest.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Just it was a long time ago, and the name didn't mean anything... Blush


malickfan
Gondor


Sep 20 2013, 6:56pm

Post #12 of 157 (580 views)
Shortcut
Going mostly OT...but who actually is the most powerful person in M.E at the time of The Hobbit? [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't read LOTR in quite a while so my memory is rather sketchy, but Cirdan, Elrond and Galadriel are reffered to as the three most powerful Elves, so surely Galadriel as the older of the two current Ringbears would be of Higher Standing than Elrond, and therefore the most powerful of the The Eldar?-She does overthrow Dol Guldor and possess extroadainry foresight, Or would Cirdan (as I hope of course Wink) as the oldest elve, veteran warrior and friend of the Valar count?

Or should Saruman as head of the council and Wizards take the title?

In either case for powerful beings neither seemed to use their power so directly as you'd expect such powerful leaders to.

Pure speculation of course, but any thoughts Guys and Gals?

I don't have much to say.



Girdle of Melian
Lorien

Sep 20 2013, 6:56pm

Post #13 of 157 (577 views)
Shortcut
What you say is true, but most likely... [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on what Boyens said (being the most powerful person on ME during the Hobbit and bringing a feminine quality to the scene), the mentions and quotes of her in some of the passages in the books regarding her power (though not specific) and based on her Ninja disappearance with Gandalf (although some say it was just in his mind as she can talk telepathically), you will most likely see Galadriel fight and cast a magical spell (song) or use the elements (water, earth) during battle (maybe even her mind reading abilities, who knows), plus she also learned extensively from Melian; one of the most powerful Maiars during that time.

Arwen, Legolas and Elrond are suggested to be inferior to Galadriel in the movies (whether one agrees or not is another debate), and for her to be the "savior" her feats need to be greater than what the 3 has shown in the movie. My guess is that Gandalf and Radagast will find themselves overwhelmed having to face the Necromancer and his larger army so it's kind of hard to fight and cast spells at the same time when you are being attacked back and forth, so hence Galadriel arrives with her huge army and she fights very stealthfully (better than Legolas) and displays magic (no beaming Nuclear probably...maybe use the Phial...not sure), sings, and does the job. Now whether or not they will show something Gandalf and Radagast can't do wherein they tried (like how Gandalf tried to counter Saruman with the chanting in the mountains but still lost - in the movies at least), and then she comes along and does it for them will probably the one that will make all the hardcore fanboys really mad.

But looking from the perspective of those who only watched the movies, it is more likely that everyone's nightmare of her saving the two will most likely come true based on what Boyens said and what I've seen in the movies so far, and how they would capitalize on she is regarded in the books (which is very much subject to interpretation, and I believe that interpreation will be undoubtedly be action and magical...based on just what we've seen with Arwen).

The bigger concern I have is most the special effects they will use (if they must do it)...that Nuclear thing on The FOTR was really bad fax; I could have done that with a fan and a flashlight...lol


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 20 2013, 7:10pm

Post #14 of 157 (591 views)
Shortcut
I would say Sauron, who was one of the mightiest of the Maiar... [In reply to] Can't Post

And after him, Gandalf, Saruman, and then in no particular order, Durin's Bane, Radagast, and the two Blue Wizards.

So I'd say Galadriel, who was likely the most powerful of the elves in Middle-earth, was no more than eighth on the list of most powerful.


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Sep 20 2013, 7:13pm

Post #15 of 157 (587 views)
Shortcut
Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

But I'd do Gandalf the White(resurrected, what have you), Saruman, Gandalf the Grey... and so on.

Gandalf seemed to have brushed up on a few things before he was reincarnated.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 7:24pm

Post #16 of 157 (554 views)
Shortcut
You're probably right...... [In reply to] Can't Post

But doesn't that just go to show that 'who is the most powerful' is meaningless?

Sauron was probably the most powerful, as you say - and was defeated in the end by a very small, powerless hobbit (and Gollum's teeth).

The power of the powerless, doing what they believe they have to do with no certainty of winning, is one of the themes of Tolkien's writing. This isn't a video game. X doesn't defeat Y because X has got more points or is carrying more weapons. There are no certainties, and the greatest and most powerful can need and accept help from the weak (or weaker).

I don't have a problem with Galadriel helping/rescuing Gandalf (if she does). It doesn't say anything at all about their relative powers and abilities. Just that one gets into difficulty and the other is able to help (and that their two powers combined are stronger than one alone).


malickfan
Gondor


Sep 20 2013, 7:26pm

Post #17 of 157 (516 views)
Shortcut
Hmm...I seem to have forgotten about those guys-all the obvious candiates [In reply to] Can't Post

I really do need to read the book again ASAP if I'm thinking Elrond is more powerful than Sauron...

I don't have much to say.



Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 20 2013, 7:36pm

Post #18 of 157 (552 views)
Shortcut
Yeah, it is altogether meaningless... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I think what people are concerned about is the possibility of Gandalf being defeated and incapacitated in Dol Guldur, and then Galadriel coming in and blowing the roof off the place and wiping the floor with the same enemies that just pounded Gandalf into the dirt.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 20 2013, 7:37pm

Post #19 of 157 (538 views)
Shortcut
Yeah, I'd agree with that... [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Girdle of Melian
Lorien

Sep 20 2013, 8:00pm

Post #20 of 157 (530 views)
Shortcut
Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Seems pretty powerful to me for just being no. 8

She was able being fooled by Sauron in the Second Age by suggesting to Celebrimbor to hide the Three Rings.
She was the one who formed the White Council and suggested that Gandalf be the leader
She was the one who suggested to Aragorn to seek the Path of the Dead to Aid in the War (Not Elrond, in the books at least)
She gave Frodo a Phial as she knew he was going to need it (and other gifts that proved useful) or the quest would have failed
She was the one who tracked Gandalf after his battle with the Balrog, sending the eagles to fetch him, and healed him back to health
She, along with the others, provided a distraction for Sauron's forces and hence Lorien was assaulted 3 times to ensure they don't interfere in the war, and was mentiond by Tolkien himself that the power that dealt there (despite her Elven army) was far too great to overcome unless Sauron came there himself; presumbably with the One Ring on his finger; she also suggested to to Frodo that not only signing of trees or elven arrows were solely responsible for the defense of Lorien

These are just some of the mentions about her...and there are far more; I don't see much about Radagast and the others...surely, a Mair is more poweful than an Elf but they were also limited to use their powers - Galadriel, whatever she knew wasn't...and even though he did not come to specifics, it is clear that without Galadriel; just as much as Gandalf, the quest would have definitely failed. If you put Radagast in defense of Lorien, without Galadriel, I doubt he would have been as successful in repelling the attacks. Even during the attacks, only the woodland borders were damaged, they did not even get into the forest and Lorien had no high walls or towers...

...


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 8:09pm

Post #21 of 157 (532 views)
Shortcut
I can't see that happening.... [In reply to] Can't Post

.. for a start, she can't defeat Sauron because he's got to be around for the LotR films. If they even make him look weak they risk undermining that whole story. For that matter, Gandalf can't defeat Sauron either.

Same applies to the Nazgul. And what else could there be as powerful?

So if she does rescue him, I feel that it has to be more a case of pulling him out of some shared danger than blasting the danger to the four winds by the power of her beautiful white frock. (Actually, joking aside I think that's one of the problems they've set themselves, or at least, that Tolkien set for them. It's very hard to imagine Galadriel actually getting dirty, for which reason it's better to keep her out of battles altogether!)

At the moment I can't imagine what they're doing with Dol Guldur and how they're going to handle it. That's why I refuse to flap over the 'what if's people come up with. The storyline they've gone for could be something none of us has imagined.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 20 2013, 8:49pm

Post #22 of 157 (549 views)
Shortcut
Well it's pretty obvious that some people are worried... [In reply to] Can't Post

...if this thread or a few other recent threads are any indication. I'm not as worried about it as AinurOlorin or some others might be, but I still think it is a possibility that they may overdo Galadriel.

Though like you said, it might be completely different than what any of us think.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Sep 20 2013, 8:50pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 10:12pm

Post #23 of 157 (526 views)
Shortcut
Yes, they are..... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... but with all due respect, as the months - years - have gone by in here, people have worried and agonised over so many things that never happened:

Would they include all 13 dwarves? Would one of the dwarves be female?

Did Bifur's axe show the they were making fun of people with brain damage?

Were they leaving out the Arkenstone? Would Bard be in the film at all?

Had Gandalf been captured by goblins along with the dwarves?

I could go on, but I won't. Flap after flap after flap, about terrible possibilities that were never more than an idea in the mind of poster. PJ and co had probably never even thought of them, much less intended to do them, yet all that energy was expended on worrying about them.

I'm intrigued by the Dol Guldur storyline because I can't imagine how they're going to pull it off. A battle in which the safety of the protagonists on both sides is guaranteed, because they all have to appear in later episodes of the story, is a very difficult proposition. Where's the tension to come from? That's why I rather hoping that they'll come up with something that isn't a pitched battle. I don't know what yet, hence the intrigue.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 20 2013, 11:13pm

Post #24 of 157 (498 views)
Shortcut
Not really sure what to tell you dormouse... [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess if you don't like a certain topic, then you don't have to read or post in threads related to it. I'm sure you knew exactly what this thread what was about when you clicked on it (especially considering who the author of the thread is Wink). And if it's something that has been going on for years, then I doubt you are going to change that with a few comments about how pointless you feel it is. People are going to continue to speculate and talk about this until the Dol Guldur storyline is ended, so it is what it is. C'est la vie, mon amie.

For the record, I am not wracking my brain over Galadriel possibly showing an overblown amount of force - I was simply speaking my piece about the topic at hand. I'm much more concerned about Azog and Tauriel annoying me by taking up too much screen time.

Now, something we can agree upon is the intrigue of Dol Guldur. This is just about the only area where Jackson has a mostly clean slate to work with, so it'll be interesting to see what he comes up with. What do we know? We know that Saruman's "devices" were somehow instrumental in kicking Sauron out, and we know that Sauron didn't really stick around too long, but fled "before them". I'd rather not see Elrond or Galadriel show up with armies, and I'd rather not see the wood-elves get involved in Dol Guldur. Personally I'd rather it mostly be a battle between The Wise on one side, and some Ringwraiths and maybe some Orcs and bats on the other side, with the Necromancer making his presence known, but not taking much part in the fighting. We shall see what Jackson and Co. come up with...


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 20 2013, 11:26pm

Post #25 of 157 (474 views)
Shortcut
Ugh. Amended. lol And I hope so too, VERY much, concerning Ms. Boyens. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...even he should not be made to look like an amateur next to an elf, even a high-born Noldor like Galadriel.

I seriously hope Ms. Boyens has been made aware of how off-the-mark her Galadriel comment was.

BTW Ainur, this sort of reminds me of something I read in the lotr wiki entry on the Nazgul. Look in the section under "Weaknesses", and read the last paragraph, I'm sure you will get a kick out of that final sentence Crazy

Here's a link - http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Nazg%C3%BBl


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.