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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Orange and teal

StarGodziller
Bree


Sep 15 2013, 10:18pm

Post #1 of 24 (1289 views)
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Orange and teal Can't Post

Seriously, my least favorite thing about Unexpected Journey, even more than the CGI orcs and so forth, was the orange and teal color grading. It looked pretty ugly, distracting and out of place in Middle Earth. Riddles in the Dark was a great scene but the fact that it was colored teal made me enjoy it less. From the trailer Desolation of Smaug looks awash it in it too (Mirkwood looks completely teal). Why did Peter Jackson decide to conform to this annoying Hollywood cliche?


Osskil
Bree

Sep 16 2013, 4:05am

Post #2 of 24 (674 views)
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Hm... [In reply to] Can't Post

I know this is a common complaint about films these days, but a great deal of the Rings trilogy also used the orange/teal color scheme, and when not teal, blue. I can't quite understand why teal/orange is a poor choice, but horror-movie blue and orange is OK.


Barrow-Wight
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 4:15am

Post #3 of 24 (676 views)
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screenshots? [In reply to] Can't Post

Could someone post screenshots? I'm sorry I don't understand what you're talking about I never noticed


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 16 2013, 4:40am

Post #4 of 24 (678 views)
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just google the words [In reply to] Can't Post

teal, orange and movies-- there are lots of articles and images explaining this all-pervasive trend.

EDIT: Actually, the picture of Thorin in the rotation of pictures in the upper left-hand corner here on the TOR.n page is a good example of it.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Sep 16 2013, 4:44am)


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 6:03am

Post #5 of 24 (649 views)
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Observational selection bias [In reply to] Can't Post

The confounding thing about the teal-and-orange color grading is that you often don't notice it if you're not aware of it, but once someone points it out, then you begin to see it everywhere-- like buying a new car, suddenly you see the same model everywhere, or like pregnant women who suddenly notice a lot of other pregnant women around them. Psychologists call this "observational selection bias".

The original idea behind teal and orange was sound: since they are complementary colors, they will make things stand out more, especially skin tones against a darker background. This makes dusk and night scenes more visible and 3-dimensional, and since so much of AUJ took place inside caverns or in the dark, they used a lot of it (Trollshaws, Goblin Town, Riddles In The Dark, Out of the Frying Pan And Into The Fire). If you compare Gollum in AUJ and Gollum in TTT during his very first scene (sneaking up on the Hobbits at night), then you notice that at night in TTT he looked kind of flat and unconvincing; in the daylight he looked much more real. In Riddles In The Dark I thought he looked realistic during the entire scene. So orange and teal does have its uses; unfortunately it seems as if overuse has become the norm in "blockbuster" type films. I hope that by the time DOS comes out Andrew Lesnie will have had a think about the color grading and will use the teal-and-orange sparingly.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




Kendalf
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 11:44am

Post #6 of 24 (514 views)
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For me, this trend reduces the films' realism [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The confounding thing about the teal-and-orange color grading is that you often don't notice it if you're not aware of it, but once someone points it out, then you begin to see it everywhere...Psychologists call this "observational selection bias".



Yep, I dare say there's a lot of that to it but there's no denying that it's actually there, is there? I mean, audiences aren't imagining this.

I'm like you and am desperately, desperately hoping that "Andrew Lesnie will have had a think about the color grading and will use the teal-and-orange sparingly". The thing is, though, I hold out no hope whatsoever of this actually happening. None.

1) The DoS trailer was absolutely soaked in it. Heck, even your avatar of the ruined Dale demonstrates this. Blue much?
2) The recently re-done grading for the Ext Ed FotR blu-ray (ie the grading that lies underneath the blanket green tint) boasts it, too. Blue light (Orthanc interior), blue snow (aerial shot of Caradhras), blue eyeballs (seem fairer, feel fouler). You name it.

It seems to me that Jackson and Leslie have bought into this bizarre new standard, to a ludicrous degree in some places. In the Prologue of AUJ, for example, a dwarf woman carries a couple of bolts of cloth through Dale. What colours are they? A dwarf woman flees Erebor. What colour are her skirts?

The sooner this trend dies the better for me because the upshot of it all is that films look less realistic and that's not what I wanted from this trilogy Frown

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Kendalf
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 12:36pm

Post #7 of 24 (497 views)
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Sorry, forgot to reply! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Could someone post screenshots? I'm sorry I don't understand what you're talking about I never noticed



Just pop to this webpage where someone has posted screencaps from the trailer.

http://hole-intheground.blogspot.co.uk/...f-smaug-trailer.html

Check out Dale, the Hidden Door, cobweb-Thorin, Legolas aiming at you, Laketown and Bard to see if you notice it now Smile

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


dave_lf
Gondor

Sep 16 2013, 1:00pm

Post #8 of 24 (473 views)
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Dissonance [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I hope that by the time DOS comes out Andrew Lesnie will have had a think about the color grading and will use the teal-and-orange sparingly.


Your sig proves it is already too late.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 16 2013, 1:29pm

Post #9 of 24 (458 views)
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There is still hope... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that there is some "observational bias" happening with the teal-and-orange issue; obviously it exists, but do people tend to see it more, or think they see it, once they are aware of it?

Actually if you go through the trailer, the teal-and-orange is noticeable (to my eyes anyway) in only about 25-30% of the scenes. For example, I think the trailer shot of the ruined city of Dale (my avatar) (below) is a case in point-- in my opinion, the real scene would look like this; I've lived near snow-covered mountains and they do tend to take on this shade of blue.



Mirkwood will probably feature a lot of it: I think we'll just have to accept that, because they want to play up the "ghostly lighting" effect. The one I most wish they would change is Dol Guldur; there it just makes the fortress look more obviously CGI, so let's hope they do more work on that before the film is finished.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Sep 16 2013, 4:54pm

Post #10 of 24 (410 views)
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Drunk On Pop [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...It seems to me that Jackson and Leslie have bought into this bizarre new standard, to a ludicrous degree in some places...


As I understand it, the Tealization of Hollywood is derived from flesh tones. The way to make characters "pop" onscreen is to make their flesh tones contrast against the opposite side of the color wheel. This basically settled on an orange foreground subject against a teal background. The availability of new easy and convenient color grading has resulted in a figurative (and literal?) explosion of the practice.

The Tealization of Hollywood is just as much a result of the observer effect as is paranoia when someone really is out to get you. In other words, there's a good, rational reason for the effect and it can't be explained away as if it's just in our collective heads. The practice is real and it is pervasive. What a shame to the legacy of film.

I, too, am incredulous that Jackson and Lesnie can fall for this thing that will eventually date their films "like bad 1970s hair cuts." It is like watching an oblivious drunk friend at a party make a fool of himself. You like him, he can do good work, he's a nice guy, but you feel just a little sorry for how he will feel about it tomorrow.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Sep 16 2013, 5:00pm)


Glorfindela
Valinor


Sep 16 2013, 5:45pm

Post #11 of 24 (383 views)
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I can't say I noticed any 'orange and teal' [In reply to] Can't Post

But I can say that I absolutely loved the colours of AUJ from the first moment I saw the film.

All too often these days films and television dramas are shown dark and murky, sometimes throughout their whole course, as if to hide any flaws and the fact that the backgrounds are not fully developed. Personally, I find the darkness of such films and TV dramas really frustrating I want to see what is in the background and surrounding the characters.

In AUJ, the colours are generally bright and clear, and everything is upfront, which means that every detail, every artefact, had to be finely worked out by the creators of the scenes. I take my hat off to them for creating such wonderful visuals, and I have no 'nitpicks' or 'complaints' as far as this aspect of the film goes. To me the coloration of the film (and the HFR format) enhanced my experience of viewing it. I hope the later films will be equally clear and filled with colour, with all the details visible.


Kim
Valinor


Sep 16 2013, 6:14pm

Post #12 of 24 (357 views)
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Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the colors of AUJ as well and based on what we've seen in the DOS trailer, I'm looking forward to similar vibrant colors. I absolutely love the opening shots of the Lonely Mountain and ruined Dale.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 16 2013, 10:12pm

Post #13 of 24 (318 views)
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Not sure I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

I have to say that - although I enjoyed a bit of duck a l'orange in the seventies, I can't stand it as a film flavouring, and was worried that AUJ would be tainted. However, I don't think it was.

In the LOTR films, they used blue for dark areas/distance -which is consistent with reality and also when heightened/saturated, gives the impression of a heightened sense of reality - which was perfect for those films. Teal on the other hand, seems to be a colour that is only common in the film world - I just don't see much of it in my daily life - plenty of blues and greens, yellows and browns, and a few reds and oranges - but very very little actual teal. Which is what makes films like Transformers or Twilight (don't ask me how I know) or some of these CSI type series seem so unreal and stylised and obviously fake.

I really don't think PJ etc. have gone for the teal look, except in one or two scenes, so far in the Hobbit film series, although the AUJ trailer had made me think they might. So, perhaps they're picking some of the more tealified scenes for the trailers - where they need to instantly grab the audience. I'll have to have another look at the DOS trailer - but I don't remember being too concerned about the colouring of it - I was more concerned with the fact that the main character seems to be a female elf who presumably got lost and wandered in from another story by mistake.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Sep 17 2013, 1:09am

Post #14 of 24 (303 views)
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Losing the Wonder [In reply to] Can't Post

We all know way too much these days to sit in wonder at film. We have lost our capacity to enjoy for enjoyment's sake. Not being aware of the orange/teal color palette of movies I was not offended by its use in AUJ or LOTR or any other movie that's had it as it's primary scheme. I did not know enough to be concerned about it. Now I do. Am unsure I am any happier with the knowledge.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 17 2013, 2:21am

Post #15 of 24 (303 views)
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That's probably because [In reply to] Can't Post

it was not used in LOTR. I've just skimmed the EE (standard ed. disk) and there's no teal and orange being used. The only time people's faces are orange/golden is when lit by firelight/candles or the autumnal light at Rivendell; the rest of the time they are pink - in daylight, or blue tinged at night. Likewise the backgrounds, which would be predominantly teal in a typical Hollywood movie, are a range of colours and shades, depending on the context.

The only times any greenish tinge is used, are when there is a specific context for it - orcish scenes tend towards a greenish darkness, rather than blue, and the Prancing Pony interior is supposed to be a 'sickly' green, to reflect the hobbits discomfort.

[reply] Not being aware of the orange/teal color palette of movies I was not offended by its use in AUJ or LOTR or any other movie that's had it as it's primary scheme. [/reply][i][i][i][/i][i][/i][i][/i][i]

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Sep 18 2013, 12:32am

Post #16 of 24 (211 views)
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It does reduce the realism [In reply to] Can't Post

But it seems like the blue and teal is not the only trend Jackson has gone for in these films. Crazy


MEIGWIT
Bree


Sep 18 2013, 2:05pm

Post #17 of 24 (191 views)
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Actually [In reply to] Can't Post

The Lord of the Rings is the series of movies that made color grading popular. Only ones before this were O Brother Where Art Thou and Matrix. If you want to blame someone, blame everyone that copied Peter Jackson and Co. Jackson took the technology and expanded it's range. His team is doing what they made popular and keeping it.

I do get annoyed when every movie does it though. The Marvel movies are absolutely atrocious with it. Especially movies that have absolutely no point in doing it such as buddy comedies. But for Middle Earth I do believe it was a good choice then and is now. Also, Jackson's team does much more than teal and orange and they do it well. They don't do something unless it's appropriate and to be honest, I'd rather have it than not. It definitely aids the filmmaker to give an emotion through color to a scene.

It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.


MEIGWIT
Bree


Sep 18 2013, 2:09pm

Post #18 of 24 (196 views)
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This [In reply to] Can't Post

Is a very good point! Why can't we just enjoy the art people make instead of break it down into finite details. Just observe, let it affect you, and move on in life. Maybe it's not your thing. So go make your own and affect other people. That is what artists do.

It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Sep 18 2013, 3:53pm

Post #19 of 24 (201 views)
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"Do It Yourself" [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Is a very good point! Why can't we just enjoy the art people make instead of break it down into finite details. Just observe, let it affect you, and move on in life. Maybe it's not your thing. So go make your own and affect other people. That is what artists do.


It is more difficult to enjoy what one doesn't like to see, tastes or feel. One doesn't have to "break down" lima beans to understand why you don't like them. There's no need for analysis here; the effect is clear and so are the long-term effects of fads on dating films.

"Go make your" own film if you don't like what is offered crosses that line of final defense where it ultimately leads people to claim we have to be a director to criticize another director's film. That is patently false.

As for the "move on with life" mentality, that's what I do every time I leave this website or finish a movie. I go do other things that I care about. I am in the moment when I do those other things and not thinking about The Tealization of Hollywood. When I come back here, it's only part of what I'm thinking and posting about (more or less sometimes). I don't want my opinion speciously dismissed on the accusation that I'm so obsessed that it's all I think about or do. I just think about it when I read a topic that talks about it, and I respond. - like one does when one views art.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 18 2013, 6:11pm

Post #20 of 24 (157 views)
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So ignorance really is bliss? ?? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


MEIGWIT
Bree


Sep 18 2013, 7:06pm

Post #21 of 24 (149 views)
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Unfortunately [In reply to] Can't Post

... to put it simply, how do you avoid becoming depressed by tyrannical governments, simply stop paying attention. So, you either live and question and break things apart, most of the time living with disappointment, or you simply just live ignorantly.

Now of course I'm not saying which is better, but the one who questions things will be able to figure it out I'm sure...

Tongue

It is the little things in life that keep the darkness at bay.


Kendalf
Rohan


Sep 19 2013, 12:10pm

Post #22 of 24 (116 views)
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Ok, so there are three reasons this isn't a good thing [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...it can't be explained away as if it's just in our collective heads. The practice is real and it is pervasive. What a shame to the legacy of film.

I, too, am incredulous that Jackson and Lesnie can fall for this thing that will eventually date their films...



Well, yes, that's another unintended result of the obsession (besides reducing the realism). Add to those two the fact that TTT and RotK (currently) don't boast this obsession and you have three reasons why it's a little unfortunate they've bought into it.

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


KW
The Shire

Sep 19 2013, 3:32pm

Post #23 of 24 (114 views)
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A contradiction? [In reply to] Can't Post

Making your own art necessitates critical examination and discussion of other art. Getting past passive reactions so as to "break it down" is essential to observation. Indeed, criticism itself can be a form of art.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 25 2013, 3:16pm

Post #24 of 24 (73 views)
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Very well said.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

 
 

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