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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
It is the books being quoted. Yes he encouraged, with wisdom, and his kind Spirit, and was aided by the healing power of The Red Ring, but make no mistake

AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 12 2013, 7:46am


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It is the books being quoted. Yes he encouraged, with wisdom, and his kind Spirit, and was aided by the healing power of The Red Ring, but make no mistake [In reply to] Can't Post

Sam wasn't talking like a fool when he said, "Whatever may be in store for old Gandalf, I'll wager it isn't the wolf's belly. . . What did I tell you Mr. Pippin! Wolves won't get him! THat was an eye opener and no mistake! Nearly singed the hair off my head he did!"

THAT is something the filmakers took out entirely though they left the line. It isn't really true that the Rings films were entirely faithful to his magic and his behaviour in the books, nor entirely honest in their depiction. Certainly he was not constantly showing out in displays of power, and he did not violate his trust to avoid using force and fear to cow Elves, Men and the other free folk into following his will. . . but, both for the delight of others, and when pressed into a tight corner, he could and would show significant power. The Rings films deleted a number of scenes in which he put forth some fraction of his power, and others of his feats they attributed to others instead (see Arwen's horsewaves). An Unexpected Journey was actually much more true to that aspect of him than were the films of The Ring Lord trilogy.

This is going to be one of his great tests. It is ESSENTIAL, not just for showing his power but also for showing the danger of the power in Dol Guldur, that he be shown putting forth significant power in securing his escape. This is a place of UTTER Dread. If he escapes using no more than those abilities which would be available to a Legolas, Aragorn or Thorin, it becomes hard to take the place seriously as a dire menace inhabited by a host of dread Powers. It needs to be clear that this is the sort of place only the likes of a Wizard, a true Power like Gandalf (vieled though he often is) has a chance of getting out of.

Also. . . the loss of his confrontation with The Nine is one of the biggest missed opportunities in Film History, from a purely scenic, dramatic and iconic perspective. Someone just made a thread about what the most iconic scenes were. . . well, I can garauntee that a scene of Gandalf revealing an amount of his power to fend off The Nine would easily rank as one of the most iconic moments of all SIX films, if properly handled.

And, again, that is a lift STRAIGHT out of the books, in which, in a tight pinch, confronted by the chief servants of Sauron who doubtless hoped to capture or end his incarnation, if they could manage it, and wherein he put forth his power in an astounding display and held them back from the dusk until the dawn. Let us not cherry pick the book. Encouragement and sage, wise advice were KEY, FUNDEMENTAL aspects of Gandalf. . . but so too was the fact that he was a Power and a serious danger to his foes, who "could not do everything, but. . . could do a great deal for friends in a tight corner." He could also do a great deal for himself.

Whether on Amon Sul, or in Dol Guldur, he wouldn't merely stand around and allow his enemies to take him. Sauron will become aware that he is in Dol Guldur, and why, and he will pull out the stops in trying to stop him, first hoping not to have to reveal himself, but when all else fails. . . and Gandalf knows he HAS to get out and back to the council, else Sauron's plans will go unchallanged until ripe. He will put forth what power is necessary to escape. A sword alone is not going to get it in the bowels of that Hill of Sorcery. .. if it were, Beornings and Dwarf Lords (and probably more than one or two Elves and men) wouldn't end up as prisoners there.

IF these movies are to be at all true to the way things are handled in the novels, Gandalf in Dol Guldur will be much more akin to Gandalf on Amon Sul, than to Gandalf during the troll attack in Moria (to be fair, in the films, he knows a great Demon of vast socerous, spiritual and phyisical power is lairing within those halls, and would want to conserve his abilities for the event of that truest trial).

In Reply To
but I am not certain that he will display a lot of his magic in Dol Guldur, at least not when he is alone. Perhaps I am wrong but we have twi things that confirm this;

- even in books Gandalf rarely displays his power as his main task is to help peoples of Middle Earth against Sauron and his minions. He is doing that by encourage them, giving them hope and focus them on the right path rather then using full power to fight enemy directly. Though many objected the fact that Gandalf showed so little magic in LOTR I think filmakers were true to the books in that case and I approve that. The only greatest error was his confrotation with the Witch King in EE which shouldn't be included in the film at all but then again maybe Gandal would still fight the Witch King if the Rohirrim wouldn't arrive.

- as I already pointed out Peter Jackson and his team didn't show much of Gandalf's magic until now. His powers are always display rather subtile, he is fighting with his staff and sword rather than using magic and I doubt that they will change this. Again we see Gandalf fighting Thrain with his staff in Dol Guldur so unless he will be in great danger he won't do great lightening shows.

Also don't forget that he is only investigating and he should do that subtle and without making great mess. However attack of the White Council on Dol Guldur is another matter as their main goal is to defeat Sauron and therefore a lot of magic should be presented on that attack, even from Gandalf.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Sep 12 2013, 7:53am)

Subject User Time
Certainly Gandalf needs to display power-magic in Dol Guldur. But how? Let the books be your guide, filmcrew! AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 10 2013, 11:28pm
    Completely agree Arandir Send a private message to Arandir Sep 11 2013, 6:59am
        That is a fear, but I certainly hope they won't make that mistake. Two things play in favour of them doing the right thing AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 11 2013, 7:53am
            Plus, burgahobbit Send a private message to burgahobbit Sep 11 2013, 11:00am
                Definitely, Burgahobbit and Sycoraxa82. I thought it fitting and proper that Radagast AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 11 2013, 10:15pm
        # 2 of this list completely nails it on EVERY level. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 11 2013, 8:01am
            Very very true ... Arandir Send a private message to Arandir Sep 11 2013, 3:48pm
                Fingers crossed for it, Arandir my friend. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 11 2013, 10:16pm
        I wish they would reshoot the Witch-King confrontation sycorax82 Send a private message to sycorax82 Sep 11 2013, 6:22pm
    i still missed how in the book when Gandalf showed up in... MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Sep 12 2013, 3:18am
        Sauron Yngwulff Send a private message to Yngwulff Sep 12 2013, 3:48am
            No, however Sauron almost surely would not be the first wave of confrontation (and, yes please to Glorfindel in the full assault . .. SURVIVING in a hero Elf role!) AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 12 2013, 4:09am
                ^ Liking all of this, AO. cats16 Send a private message to cats16 Sep 12 2013, 4:16am
        I really missed that too, HOWEVER, after the how many of Gandalf's displays of power were either AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 12 2013, 4:01am
            agreed MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Sep 12 2013, 4:13am
                orcrist did glow Cirashala Send a private message to Cirashala Sep 12 2013, 5:10pm
                    nope MouthofSauron Send a private message to MouthofSauron Sep 13 2013, 3:38am
                        There were a few points where Glamdring glowed VERY briefly, as it was swung. AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 13 2013, 10:20pm
    Hard to tell Old Pilgrim Send a private message to Old Pilgrim Sep 12 2013, 5:28am
        It is the books being quoted. Yes he encouraged, with wisdom, and his kind Spirit, and was aided by the healing power of The Red Ring, but make no mistake AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 12 2013, 7:46am
            Yes but Hamfast Gamgee Send a private message to Hamfast Gamgee Sep 12 2013, 12:00pm
            True, but we are talking about Dol Guldur here Old Pilgrim Send a private message to Old Pilgrim Sep 12 2013, 12:56pm
                It is a trap. And as he said on Caradhras when the wargs came, ere another display of power, "Need we wait till morning? The Hunt is up!" AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 13 2013, 9:36pm
                    Hopefully not... Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Sep 14 2013, 12:35am
                        Guard your heart, Salmacis. I hope as you do, but AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 14 2013, 3:10am
                        maiar vs istari Cirashala Send a private message to Cirashala Sep 14 2013, 3:01pm
                            The Istari are Maia Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Sep 14 2013, 9:05pm
                            What Otaku said... Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Sep 15 2013, 3:09am
                            Otaku and Salmacis have nailed it. To give greater specifity, Olorin and Curumo were the highest of the Maiar who were sent and became known as AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin Sep 15 2013, 5:28pm
    If we are going by the books Hamfast Gamgee Send a private message to Hamfast Gamgee Sep 12 2013, 11:56am
        True... Salmacis81 Send a private message to Salmacis81 Sep 12 2013, 2:43pm

 
 
 

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