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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What are "dead" Lake-town citizens doing in Dale *possible spoilers*
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Arandir
Gondor


Sep 4 2013, 7:05pm

Post #1 of 29 (1726 views)
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What are "dead" Lake-town citizens doing in Dale *possible spoilers* Can't Post

After copious amounts of viewing of the latest Vlog, I'm just wondering what are the two individuals (clearly citizens) from Lake-town, doing in the "desolated" Dale?

Image 1
Image 2

What could possibly occur that drives both men and women to the destroyed city? Surely it isn't a flashback as the snow settling on the burnt stonework is clearly visible - and hence during the time the Company passes through Dale.

Could they be fleeing, exiles of sort - after Smaug's attack? The man seems to be carrying a basket with him too ...

For some reason, I keep thinking this is part of the third Film, possibly before the Battle of the Five Armies, which sees a skirmish between the Lake-towners and the Elves against the Goblins/Orcs - hence, why we see Gandalf, Legolas, Tauriel and Thranduil all in Dale (in the Vlog), seemingly fighting (but that could be part of the BOFA itself).

Then again, it still doesn't explain what these citizens are doing so far away from home ...

Plus, I've noticed that, when Luke Evans (at the end of the vlog) explains what happened to him on the first day back on set (and he almost falls in the water), he grabs hold of a man standing there with a basket - he looks very similar to the "dead" guy a few minutes before. There are some subtle differences between the two, but the resemblance is nonetheless uncanny ... (image)

Not sure whether anyone else thought about this whole "Lake-town-people-in-Dale-thing", or whether I'm just not up to speed with things!Laugh

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
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Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 4 2013, 7:45pm

Post #2 of 29 (625 views)
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Maybe they take refuge in Dale after Smaug destroys Laketown?// [In reply to] Can't Post

And then prior to the battle some orcs (possibly led by Bolg) attack them?


(This post was edited by Carne on Sep 4 2013, 7:47pm)


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 4 2013, 7:46pm

Post #3 of 29 (644 views)
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I dunno... [In reply to] Can't Post

but that first image sure looks a lot like Jonathan Davies (British TV actor) Wink

http://images2.fanpop.com/...81473652207_full.jpg


Seriously, if it's not part of the Bo5A then I can only guess it might possibly be something to do with Azog's Orcs that have followed the Dwarves to Laketown...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 4 2013, 7:57pm

Post #4 of 29 (605 views)
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Haha! A spot of Jonathan Creek in TABA perhaps? [In reply to] Can't Post

Re: citizens, it still doesn't explain how Lake-Town villagers ended up in Dale ... Crazy - there's probably a very simple reasoning behind all this Laugh

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 4 2013, 7:59pm

Post #5 of 29 (604 views)
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Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

that was a thought actually ... it seems to be one of the very few (or only) plausible explanation.

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 4 2013, 7:59pm

Post #6 of 29 (585 views)
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Oh bother! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I meant Alan Davies (who played Jonathan Creek) Laugh


(Mixing up names is nothing new for me, what with having 4 kids!)


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Sep 4 2013, 8:01pm)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Sep 4 2013, 8:05pm

Post #7 of 29 (558 views)
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Maybe Stephen Fry got him a part. haha // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Sep 4 2013, 8:06pm

Post #8 of 29 (615 views)
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Lying around frozen by the look of it... [In reply to] Can't Post

Couldn't resist, sorry Blush


Long Hammer
The Shire

Sep 4 2013, 8:41pm

Post #9 of 29 (553 views)
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are we sure [In reply to] Can't Post

this is even Dale. I just see snow, which would mean this is probably in present time, but other that that what makes us sure it's Dale


TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Sep 4 2013, 9:11pm

Post #10 of 29 (532 views)
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Militia? [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe the Lake Town army features a militia contingent, normal people joining the fight rather than just soldiers. Some have theorized that part of the Bo5A will take part in the ruins of Dale and these people could be the causalities.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 4 2013, 9:24pm

Post #11 of 29 (533 views)
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I'd suppose... [In reply to] Can't Post

...they're minions of the Master who were tailing the Dwarves to The Lonely Mountain and got ambushed by goblins.

******************************************
“That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.”


Luinnár
Rivendell


Sep 5 2013, 1:46am

Post #12 of 29 (414 views)
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It could possibly be "the woodsmen". [In reply to] Can't Post

 


deskp
Lorien

Sep 5 2013, 10:01am

Post #13 of 29 (340 views)
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sure [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure dale will be part of the bo5a, and it would seem natural for the laketowners to set up shop in dale when laketown is destroyed. I mean it's a whole city worrth of shelter and no dragon to threaten the town.

It also makes the battle more interesting when it involves more than jsut landscape!.


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 5 2013, 5:48pm

Post #14 of 29 (247 views)
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Sublime analysis! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 5 2013, 5:49pm

Post #15 of 29 (252 views)
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This seems quite plausible ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought so too that the idea of being exiled towards Dale would make some sense - then again, would they risk bringing their people so close to a looming battle?Unimpressed

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 5 2013, 5:51pm

Post #16 of 29 (246 views)
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I always took it for granted [In reply to] Can't Post

It always seemed like the only and natural place to be - furthermore, when Evangeline Lilly is talking about the desolation in Dale, we get glimpses of the ruined city with these two shots following soon after.

Then again, you can never be sure I guessSmile

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 5 2013, 5:59pm

Post #17 of 29 (235 views)
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Probably ... but [In reply to] Can't Post

with women too? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm all in-favour of the two genders fighting for their people, but it seems like they're too "citizen-like", with baskets and all to actually be some sort of fighting force Unsure

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 5 2013, 6:03pm

Post #18 of 29 (241 views)
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Minions? [In reply to] Can't Post

As in ...



Laugh

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


deskp
Lorien

Sep 5 2013, 6:10pm

Post #19 of 29 (244 views)
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cause [In reply to] Can't Post

They have no other place to go, and it's not like the battle is planned since the moment laketown is ruined.


Patty
Immortal


Sep 6 2013, 7:29am

Post #20 of 29 (163 views)
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But that would leave nobody working on the Q.I. set! / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Permanent address: Into the West






Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 6 2013, 1:15pm

Post #21 of 29 (152 views)
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Camp followers? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
with women too? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm all in-favour of the two genders fighting for their people, but it seems like they're too "citizen-like", with baskets and all to actually be some sort of fighting force Unsure



Armies tend to have camp followers, not just prostitutes but anything from black-market dealers to blacksmiths and washer-women.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 6 2013, 3:43pm

Post #22 of 29 (131 views)
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That seems possible ... [In reply to] Can't Post

it's all pretty much speculation for now! Crazy

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 6 2013, 5:55pm

Post #23 of 29 (129 views)
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The other thing that suggests Dale might be part of the battle... [In reply to] Can't Post

In that same v-log they show 'the armoury of Dale' - racks of swords which all look very dusty and cobwebby, as if they've been untouched a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if someone doesn't get those out - after all, the army of men Bard leads must have lost most if not all of their weapons when they lost Laketown.

I can't think they would bother to design and build an armoury unless someone's going to use it.


Arandir
Gondor


Sep 6 2013, 6:59pm

Post #24 of 29 (120 views)
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Ra Vincent stated ... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's interesting that you mention the Dale Armoury dormouse as that particular Vlog has yet another interesting note.

Ra Vincent states that for "Film 2", they created all those prop weapons "specific for that one scene" - I wonder which scene that is, and how it fits in Film 2 ...

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 6 2013, 7:07pm

Post #25 of 29 (117 views)
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Well, we have gotten hints [In reply to] Can't Post

that the dwarves will fight back when Smaug attacks before heading off to Laketown, and there will be some sort of artillery involved. Perhaps they pick up some extra firepower in Dale on their way to the Secret Door?

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."


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