Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
High Fells: cutted out again?!
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

NoelGallagher
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 8:19am

Post #1 of 47 (1402 views)
Shortcut
High Fells: cutted out again?! Can't Post

Since they arent mentioned (so far) in some of the descriptions in the Annual or somewhere else, is it possible they again decided to leave it out of the movie ?! Which would be kinda strange cause we got the sneak peak,its in the trailer(again) and this pick up shot from the last blog...and, Galadriels statement concerning the morgul blade from AUJ.

In the Annual its written "Gandalf heads south..." which obviously be Dol Guldur and not north,where the tombs should be located.
I'm wondering if they changed the timeline for the necromancer-subplot again or what do you think how its going to play out in DoS?!


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 4 2013, 8:49am

Post #2 of 47 (672 views)
Shortcut
I am sure it will be in. [In reply to] Can't Post

Sauron having risen the Nazgul seems to be a major part of the DG plotline - so they basically need that scene unless they decided to explain it without actually seeing it, which I doubt.

Might be a flashback though.



A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of mens imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold. J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


morro91
Bree

Sep 4 2013, 11:51am

Post #3 of 47 (579 views)
Shortcut
No [In reply to] Can't Post

The scene was shown in the live event earlier this year, so it will be in the film, whether as a flashback or Gandalf going to High Fells then Dol Guldor.

Originally it was meant to be Gandalf visiting in between Rivendell and Goblin Town, and that Gandalf would go south after Beorn. Its possible the Annual isn't completely up to date.

It won't be cut though.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 4 2013, 12:01pm

Post #4 of 47 (568 views)
Shortcut
I think it will be the prologue [In reply to] Can't Post

Or, at least, part of the prologue. We will probably see it as a flashback in any case.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 4 2013, 12:25pm

Post #5 of 47 (555 views)
Shortcut
Where are the High Fells? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't remember them in the books - which bit are they in? I vaguely remember some tombs in the north kingdom - near Weathertop?? and of course the barrows near the Old Forest. My memory of the Appendices is a bit hazy, though - if that's the source for them.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 2:09pm

Post #6 of 47 (486 views)
Shortcut
hm [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Or, at least, part of the prologue. We will probably see it as a flashback in any case.[/repl

What we have seen so far didnt look like a Flashback, in terms of "progress" if so to speak. Also the shot from the vlog didnt look like one...just my two cents...


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 4 2013, 2:34pm

Post #7 of 47 (517 views)
Shortcut
Time for this video again... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.thelandofshadow.com/...fells-of-of-rhudaur/

Enjoy! Smile


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Voronw_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 4 2013, 2:50pm

Post #8 of 47 (462 views)
Shortcut
That guy cracks me up every time! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Michelle Johnston
Lorien


Sep 4 2013, 3:56pm

Post #9 of 47 (434 views)
Shortcut
+1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow that made my day Wink

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


Michelle Johnston
Lorien


Sep 4 2013, 4:01pm

Post #10 of 47 (445 views)
Shortcut
Cold Fells = High Fells [In reply to] Can't Post

I see no need to change its location clearly it was intended to be in AUJ and takes place prior to the interaction with the Goblin King. It can be an explanation to the company as to where G got to to and why he is now definitely travelling South as soon as possible. it could even be part of the conversation with Beorn sharing intel.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


sycorax82
Rohan

Sep 4 2013, 4:10pm

Post #11 of 47 (433 views)
Shortcut
It will be in but as a flashback [In reply to] Can't Post

While it did belong in AUJ, it's understandable that it was pushed to DoS because it leads into Gandalf and Radagast at Dol Guldur, which we can see in the DoS trailer.

The DoS could be a Gandalf-narrated prologue which deals with obtaining the key from Thrain, meeting Thorin at Bree, and then showing the High Fells scene.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 4 2013, 4:39pm

Post #12 of 47 (412 views)
Shortcut
Nodded off for a minute there. [In reply to] Can't Post

Taking his inspiration from AUJ, he seems to have done the entire video in Slow Motion. Nooooooooooooooo! If I can quote Mr Oakenshield for a moment. Anyway, unless I missed something, it seems that despite Mr Tolkien taking the trouble to invent several billion interesting places in Middle Earth, which I'm sure viewers would like to have a look at, Mr Jackson has chosen to set a key scene in a totally new made-up place. If I can quote Mr Oakenshield again for a moment.....



In Reply To


"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 4 2013, 4:41pm

Post #13 of 47 (407 views)
Shortcut
Oh, and I forgot to say Thanks for pointing me to the video. [In reply to] Can't Post

This forum is a mine of information.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 4:54pm

Post #14 of 47 (397 views)
Shortcut
Left off or in present time [In reply to] Can't Post

the way the scene (sneak peak,vlog) appears to me, its not gonna be a flashback.

Why ?

the most important fact should be the scene from the Vlog where Radagast tells Gandalfs about the "graave danger".
There is a petrified troll in the background, which is an indicator that the Fells should be near the Ettenmoors.
I just cant see how the scene in the tombs and this one should work as a flashback..

Im certain that if the High Fells are included, Gandalf will head to them right after Beorn.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 4:56pm

Post #15 of 47 (405 views)
Shortcut
There is also this thread from 5 months ago [In reply to] Can't Post

...where we discussed the issue in some detail:

http://newboards.theonering.net/...591311=View+Threaded

I don't think the exact name of the place matters that much. If the High Fells of Rhudaur in the movie refers to the Cold Fells of Rhudaur in the book, that's just a minor name change. One possible reason for the change would be the difficulty of understanding the name as spoken by Galadriel, for viewers who are not familiar with the books. Even if you've never heard of Rhudaur, "High Fells" is a descriptive place name.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 5:30pm

Post #16 of 47 (359 views)
Shortcut
I hope its not in the present time [In reply to] Can't Post

I want Gandalf to venture South when meeting the Company. But I think that you are right, it doesn't seem like flashback material...oh well.

"I don't mean to be blunt but I felt I had to speak my mind, I'm sorry." - Bilbo Baggins.
"Apology accepted." - Balin.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 4 2013, 7:15pm

Post #17 of 47 (319 views)
Shortcut
It likely wasn't originally intended to be a flashback [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
What we have seen so far didnt look like a Flashback, in terms of "progress" if so to speak. Also the shot from the vlog didnt look like one...just my two cents...

A clip of the High Fells scene was first shown well before the release of AUJ. It was probably originally meant to be in the first film.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 4 2013, 7:22pm

Post #18 of 47 (317 views)
Shortcut
I don't thnik that anyone has changed the location [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I see no need to change its location clearly it was intended to be in AUJ and takes place prior to the interaction with the Goblin King. It can be an explanation to the company as to where G got to to and why he is now definitely travelling South as soon as possible. it could even be part of the conversation with Beorn sharing intel.



The name has been altered, but I don't think that the locaion has (unless you mean the location of the scene within the film(s). We were told in AUJ that the High Fells were located in Rhudaur, so Gandalf and Radagast's visit would still take place before Gandalf rescues the Dwarves in Goblin-town. The tombs, themselves, are an invention for the films.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 5 2013, 2:02am

Post #19 of 47 (247 views)
Shortcut
its too important to cut out [In reply to] Can't Post

if the whole dol-guldur plot happens in DOS than they will have to show this scene.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Michelle Johnston
Lorien


Sep 5 2013, 3:57am

Post #20 of 47 (238 views)
Shortcut
Location of place and movie [In reply to] Can't Post

Apologies if I wasn't clear. The High Fells scene will now appear in DOS now rather than as intended in AUJ. In order to accommodate the scene in DOS I do not think they will change its physical location. I am sure it was filmed as real time narrative but it can be framed by Gandalf as an explanation to the Dwarves of where he went or to Beorn and the Dwarves as to his suppositions as to what is happening to the Mirkwood. They could show it as a journey loop and then on to Dol Gulder but then what was Gandalf doing before he rescued the company from the Goblin King.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 5 2013, 12:47pm

Post #21 of 47 (194 views)
Shortcut
So basically [In reply to] Can't Post

It's a half real (Coldfells) and half made-up (tombs) location, with a changed name, supporting a major plot point that is entirely out of line with the books. It sounds like the film-makers didn't have the confidence to stick with the simpler solutions provided by Tolkien. As someone who knows the books, this, along with the Azog stuff, makes the plot seem more convoluted and contrived than it needs to be - henc the issues of timing and distance. How did Gandalf find the captured dwarves, who had disappeared through an invisible crack in the ground, for example? How did he manage to visit the Coldfells, return to Rivendell to report what he'd found, then catch up with the dwarves, happen to find the exact same cave, discover the secret crack, find a way in and rescue them???


In Reply To

In Reply To
I see no need to change its location clearly it was intended to be in AUJ and takes place prior to the interaction with the Goblin King. It can be an explanation to the company as to where G got to to and why he is now definitely travelling South as soon as possible. it could even be part of the conversation with Beorn sharing intel.



The name has been altered, but I don't think that the locaion has (unless you mean the location of the scene within the film(s). We were told in AUJ that the High Fells were located in Rhudaur, so Gandalf and Radagast's visit would still take place before Gandalf rescues the Dwarves in Goblin-town. The tombs, themselves, are an invention for the films.


"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 5 2013, 1:53pm

Post #22 of 47 (190 views)
Shortcut
Too many assumptions? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I think your critique contains a few too many assumptions, and is thus being a bit unfair to the writers. My reasons would be as follows:

I would argue that the Nazgul plot in the films was done to make things simpler for the average viewer. Remember that 99% of the viewers will not have read the Appendices to The Return of the King. Many will, however, remember the Black Riders as the "bad guys" in the LOTR films, and might remember that they were in some sort of half-alive, half dead state. So where did those guys come from? How did they get that way? And what is their connection to this "Necromancer" of the Dol Guldur subplot? In the book, they just "appear" one year (2251 of the Second Age) with no further explanation. So for the movie they changed it to a simpler plot that anyone can understand: they were once evil men; they died; they were resurrected in their wraith state by the Necromancer.

Concerning Gandalf and the Goblins: nobody ever said he came through the same secret crack in the same cave. There must be many entrances and exits to the caves of the Misty Mountains (e.g. Gollum knows another entrance), so we simply don't know which way Gandalf came in. In fact, you can argue that Gandalf did know another way out, because he tells the party "Follow me!" as they begin their escape through the caverns of Goblin Town, indicating he may have come in another way. We don't know how he managed to track the party to the Goblin caves; that is assumed to be one of his skills as a wizard.

We also were not told that Gandalf "returned to Rivendell to report what he'd found" after visiting the High Fells. Galadriel says to Gandalf "You will follow them", and Gandalf says "Yes". That's the last we hear of it, so we can't assume that he returned to Rivendell after visiting the High Fells but before finding the Dwarves in Goblin Town. It makes more sense to assume that he will report what he has found at the next meeting of the White Council, which we are yet to see.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Sep 5 2013, 2:28pm

Post #23 of 47 (186 views)
Shortcut
Explanation of the Nazgul [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
In the book, they just "appear" one year (2251 of the Second Age) with no further explanation. So for the movie they changed it to a simpler plot that anyone can understand: they were once evil men; they died; they were resurrected in their wraith state by the Necromancer.


As far as the books go, it was explained that the Nazgul never actually died, but rather due to the unnatural influence of Sauron's Ring over their rings, they lived so long that they physically "faded" from the living world, and existed, as you said, in a sort of in-between state. The descriptions and depictions of them in Jackson's own LotR trilogy were pretty consistent with this (Aragorn saying they were neither living nor dead, Gollum saying they could not be killed, their true forms only being visible when one is wearing the Ring).

For The Hobbit, by contrast, it looks like Jackson has gone and combined the Nazgul with barrow-wights. Now apparently they ARE dead, but reanimated, and are visible to the naked eye without cloaking themselves.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Sep 5 2013, 2:29pm)


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Sep 5 2013, 2:40pm

Post #24 of 47 (166 views)
Shortcut
you're right [In reply to] Can't Post

But in the same way it isnt given 100% that in the New/modified 3 Film Version of the Hobbit Gandalf has already been to the High Fells.

My intention is that the writers and PJ gone like: "we have the most of the Necromancer subplot in DoS,lets put the High Fells in there as well. In present time as a good build up to whats to come with Dol Guldur".

I doubt the audience (the general one) will ask for where Gandalf has been in the last movie. Also, most of them wouldnt be wondering why Gandalfs crosses the Mountains again because he wont say in the movie "oh dear, i return to the other side of the Misty Mountains again "

We all know it but for the most people it will be just a new location in a new movie. Its as simple as this !

And, if its gonna be a Flashback,which i highly doubt, they should do a voice over of Gandalf reporting about his investigations. The way theyve shown it at the peek, it wasnt a Flashback.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 5 2013, 3:11pm

Post #25 of 47 (143 views)
Shortcut
I kinda', sorta' knew what you meant... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Apologies if I wasn't clear. The High Fells scene will now appear in DOS now rather than as intended in AUJ. In order to accommodate the scene in DOS I do not think they will change its physical location. I am sure it was filmed as real time narrative but it can be framed by Gandalf as an explanation to the Dwarves of where he went or to Beorn and the Dwarves as to his suppositions as to what is happening to the Mirkwood. They could show it as a journey loop and then on to Dol Gulder but then what was Gandalf doing before he rescued the company from the Goblin King.



You're fine. I was just covering all the bases in case I didn't fully understand your meaning. I'm pretty sure that the exploration of the Cold Fells will be kept as an explanation of what Gandalf was doing before he caught up with the company at Goblin-town.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.