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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
SCOD: The Eyes of the White Tower

Silwen_Peredhil
Rivendell


Sep 2 2013, 4:04pm

Post #1 of 15 (528 views)
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SCOD: The Eyes of the White Tower Can't Post

Welcome to another Screencap of the Day.


Here are the images:




You can find the full-sized images here and here.



I really enjoy the dialogue of this scene between these two characters.
Watching these two actors play out this scene I was reminded so much of this moment from the book:

Quote
He turned his dark eyes on Gandalf, and now Pippin saw a likeness between the two, and he felt the strain between them, almost as if he saw a line of smouldering fire, drawn from eye to eye, that might suddenly burst into flame.
Lord of the Rings: Return of the King | Minas Tirith


1) How well do you think the actor’s in the film managed to capture this moment?

2) What do you think of the lighting and how it helps to capture the character’s expressions in these pictures?

3) This scene, you might say, is a bit like a battle of wits. There are so many great pieces of dialogue. What is your favourite quote from this scene and why?

4) ”Authority is not given to you to deny the Return of the King.”
I really like how they incorporated the film/book titles into the script. Do you like the way they achieved this?


5) Any other comments about this scene?

What's this? A Ranger caught off his guard?


Meneldor
Tol Eressea


Sep 2 2013, 4:23pm

Post #2 of 15 (344 views)
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I noticed [In reply to] Can't Post

Denethor's picture has horizontal lines (stairs) while Gandalf's has vertical lines (pillars?). Denethor's vision is horizontal, looking at the world about him, seeing enemies around him and loved ones dying. Gandalf's vision is vertical, looking up. Church architecture is usually vertical: high ceilings, steeples, narrow windows pointing upwards; all designed to help people look upward in faith. Gandalf has faith. Denethor has lost his.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters; These see the works of the Lord, and his wonders in the deep.


FrogmortonJustice65
Rivendell


Sep 2 2013, 9:33pm

Post #3 of 15 (305 views)
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I've always liked how they incorporated the title of the movie into that line. [In reply to] Can't Post

This is also done in the first two movies (Elrond calls them "the fellowship of the ring" and Saruman references "the two towers" I believe) but Gandalf's reference to the title of the movie in this scene strikes me as particularly effective. I think it creates a sense of urgency in the story, and helps you recognize the magnitude of what is occurring in this scene; Denethor will not allow Aragorn to fulfill his destiny and lead the men of the west. Say what you will about the differences between Denethor's characterization in the books vs. the movies, but I've always liked that line.

 photo cbccab4e-f61e-4be5-aaa1-20e302430c7c.jpg


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 1:38am

Post #4 of 15 (266 views)
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I love this line! [In reply to] Can't Post

1) I could never complain about the acting from either Sir Ian McKellen or John Noble. Generally, I don't find the acting terrible so much as the writing. Oftentimes good actors do the best they can with a character who really should have been written differently. For instance, I don't agree with the portrayal of Denethor as an unredeemable, totally unlikeable nutcase. But... I agree that John Noble played it convincingly, and it couldn't have been easy.

2) Gandalf's face is open and turned towards the light; he is the bringer of light and hope. Isn't he mentioned in ROTK several times as being like a white light when he comes into a room? His face is turned up, and he is full of confidence and faith. Denethor's face, on the other hand, is sullen and down-turned, lost in shadow. He has chosen the path of darkness and despair, and shuns the words of hope Gandalf brings.

3) "Authority is not given to you to deny the return of the king!" - I get chills just thinking of that line. Smile So much awesomeness, so much hope, so much faith... that line is like a live wire. The king will have his crown again, no matter how much the darkness may seem to prevail.

4) A resounding YES!

5) Random comments? Um... uh... I know I usually have so many, but today I have nothing further to say. *gasp*

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


Faleel
Rohan

Sep 4 2013, 1:51am

Post #5 of 15 (267 views)
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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

I also love how he reminds him of his place with the end of that line: "Authority is not given you......Steward!"


FlyingSerkis
Rivendell


Sep 4 2013, 1:27pm

Post #6 of 15 (253 views)
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That line [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I also love how he reminds him of his place with the end of that line: "Authority is not given you......Steward!"


It is because of that line that my sister always thought that Denethor's name was Stuart.

Tongue

Then Manwë and Yavanna parted for that time, and Yavanna returned to Aulë; and he was in his smithy, pouring molten metal into a mould. 'Eru is bountiful,' she said. 'Now let thy children beware! For there shall walk a power in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril.'

'Nonetheless they will have need of wood,' said Aulë, and he went on with his smith-work.


Nuradar
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 1:29pm

Post #7 of 15 (262 views)
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very black and white [In reply to] Can't Post

1) How well do you think the actor’s in the film managed to capture this moment?
I think both actors were phenomenal. John Noble was just as good as Denethor as Ian McKellan was as Gandalf. That's right - I said it. He was amazing. He displayed passion, blind ambition, and heartache, all with a splash of madness throughout. He was brilliant.

2) What do you think of the lighting and how it helps to capture the character’s expressions in these pictures?
Now that I take a good look, the lighting to me seems about the same. I never noticed this before, but their clothes are black and white. It would have been nice (now that I think of it) to have had Denethor dressed in royal purple or a kingly green. Black seems so obviously drab for him.

3) This scene, you might say, is a bit like a battle of wits. There are so many great pieces of dialogue. What is your favourite quote from this scene and why?
"Your right hand you would use as a shield, and with your left you would seek to supplant me!" Forgive me if that line is not entirely correct, but that would be me favourite in this particular scene.

4) ”Authority is not given to you to deny the Return of the King.”
I really like how they incorporated the film/book titles into the script. Do you like the way they achieved this?

YES.

5) Any other comments about this scene?
I just want to reiterate how terrific I think John Noble was in ROTK. I loathed him and I felt sorry for him. Anytime an actor playing a bad guy can make me feel that way, I think is a sign of terrific acting.



Loresilme
Valinor


Sep 4 2013, 3:32pm

Post #8 of 15 (248 views)
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Brilliant insight! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In Reply To
Denethor's picture has horizontal lines (stairs) while Gandalf's has vertical lines (pillars?). Denethor's vision is horizontal, looking at the world about him, seeing enemies around him and loved ones dying. Gandalf's vision is vertical, looking up. Church architecture is usually vertical: high ceilings, steeples, narrow windows pointing upwards; all designed to help people look upward in faith. Gandalf has faith. Denethor has lost his.



Wow. Thank you for that, Meneldor. The visual symbolization in these films never ceases to amaze me!


Silwen_Peredhil
Rivendell


Sep 4 2013, 5:51pm

Post #9 of 15 (232 views)
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Great observation! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've always felt reminded of a cathedral when I look at Minas Tirith architecture. I like how you related it to the characters emotions.Smile

What's this? A Ranger caught off his guard?


Silwen_Peredhil
Rivendell


Sep 4 2013, 6:00pm

Post #10 of 15 (252 views)
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His costume [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Black seems so obviously drab for him.

I think his costume was to try to visually convey to the audience that there was a shadow inside as well as outside Minas Tirith. To me it reflects the dark clouds from Mordor outside. Also they may have wanted him to be dressed in black as he is in mourning for Boromir.

What's this? A Ranger caught off his guard?


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 6:24pm

Post #11 of 15 (224 views)
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I like that too [In reply to] Can't Post

It's too bad it didn't continue with the Hobbit. Old Bilbo could have said something like, "Fate decided that I should become part of this tale, this journey of mine, quite an unexpected journey, really." But maybe it would have felt too forced, and it might have been better to use the more subtle, "Nothing unexpected ever happed."

"I don't mean to be blunt but I felt I had to speak my mind, I'm sorry." - Bilbo Baggins.
"Apology accepted." - Balin.


Darkstone
Immortal


Sep 4 2013, 6:26pm

Post #12 of 15 (245 views)
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"I'm with the government and I'm here to help you!" [In reply to] Can't Post

1) How well do you think the actor’s in the film managed to capture this moment?

Quite well.


2) What do you think of the lighting and how it helps to capture the character’s expressions in these pictures?

It kinda mirrors the earlier debate between Gandalf and Theoden. Gandalf lost that one, too.


3) This scene, you might say, is a bit like a battle of wits. There are so many great pieces of dialogue. What is your favourite quote from this scene and why?

”With your left hand you would use me as a shield against Mordor and with your right you would seek to supplant me.”

Why? Because it’s true!


4) ”Authority is not given to you to deny the Return of the King.”
I really like how they incorporated the film/book titles into the script. Do you like the way they achieved this?


Yes. Of course authority was given the Council of Gondor to deny the return of King Arvedui and his heirs, but everybody seems to have forgotten that little detail by the time Aragorn shows up. Orcs and trolls busting down the gates does tend to change minds rather quickly.


5) Any other comments about this scene?

Meneldor’s comment is very nice!

******************************************
“That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.”


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 6:27pm

Post #13 of 15 (249 views)
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That is very cool [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I'm going to star hanging around the LOTR movie section more. Details like this are really incredible. Unfortunately Gandalf starts to lose faith in the movie verse also, but then Aragorn becomes the voice of hope.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Sep 5 2013, 4:03am

Post #14 of 15 (241 views)
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Ha! :D / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Misto
Lorien

Sep 9 2013, 3:42pm

Post #15 of 15 (206 views)
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Couldn't agree more [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
1) I could never complain about the acting from either Sir Ian McKellen or John Noble. Generally, I don't find the acting terrible so much as the writing. Oftentimes good actors do the best they can with a character who really should have been written differently. For instance, I don't agree with the portrayal of Denethor as an unredeemable, totally unlikeable nutcase. But... I agree that John Noble played it convincingly, and it couldn't have been easy.


Same here. I don't really agree with what Denethor became in the movies, but I don't think it's fair to lay blame for it at John Noble's door. I might not be the best judge for actor's performances but as far as I can see he did a terrific job.

 
 

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