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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bowman of the Caribbean: Bard Look Rant
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Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 1:37am

Post #51 of 94 (334 views)
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This. Generic sterotyped vanilla good looks [In reply to] Can't Post

Will Turner, John Carter, Bard...just a few that sport very similar vanilla good looks that Hollywood favors for some reason, even though edgier proved more profitable and popular and certainly acclaimed (Depp's Sparrow experiment, Downey as Tony Stark).

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Yngwulff
Gondor


Sep 2 2013, 3:13am

Post #52 of 94 (326 views)
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Yes ... less vanilla less dashing more grim [In reply to] Can't Post

Less Errol Flynn and more William Holden or Gary Cooper.

Tolkien describes him as grim and Luke Evans does not look grim enough to suit me.

I have no problem with Evans and I'm sure he'll do fine, but he's just missing something ... like soup you forgot to put celery or onion in.

“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”



Noria
Rohan

Sep 2 2013, 12:45pm

Post #53 of 94 (305 views)
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Viggo Mortensen etc. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
than those who aren't interested. Viggo was interested. It's just that expensive Hidalgo flopped and he was already too old to be given another shot. I don't think that anyone ever considered Astin and Boyd for big career.

Some actors just don't have it and ensemble movies populated with stock characters aren't star vehicles in general.


It seems to me that you equate success as an actor to appearing only in starring roles in big budget, high grossing Hollywood movies.

Viggo Mortensen had a thriving career before LotR and has certainly been successful since, including a best actor Oscar nominated role in Eastern Promises. He is an actor, musician, poet and artist, so films are only one part of his life.

Thee are many excellent actors who never become huge movie stars but choose to work in films that are well received critically and by a certain audience, but are not mega hits. Others, just as skilled, have thriving careers in supporting roles in Hollywood and other movies, and also work in theatre or music and, in some parts of the world, television. They don't draw people into a big movie like a huge star does, but they add to it's quality, and they aren't damaged when the movie fails, like the star might be.

Peter Jackson seems to prefer to find his cast in that pool of actors rather than among the Daniel Craigs and other big stars. Ian McKellen and Cate Blanchett were certainly well known and greatly respected before LotR but neither was a huge movie star. I doubt that the careers of either was affected one way or the other by LotR.

As for Evans, I'll wait and see his performance before I decide how I feel about him.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 2 2013, 1:06pm

Post #54 of 94 (295 views)
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Peter Jackson has drawn on a much wider pool of actors [In reply to] Can't Post

... I think, than many films. Ian McKellen and Ian Holm are both extremely successful and respected in British theatre - and as far as I remember, John Noble and Hugo Weaving are also stage actors. And of course, Richard Armitage has been with Royal Shakespeare Company. Other cast members are most successful in British TV drama, or have come from New Zealand, Australia or Europe. So their names may be unfamiliar in other countries, and people may look and say that their careers haven't been advanced by appearing in one of Jackson's films, whereas in fact they may have very successful careers somewhere else.

I'd say that being outside Hollywood gives Peter Jackson a very different approach to casting. He seems to value the individual rather than the name for each part and also to consider how his actors will work together. So far I think it has paid off well, even when the actor was someone I'd never heard of before, or wouldn't have connected with the role myself.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 2 2013, 1:43pm

Post #55 of 94 (273 views)
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Agreed... [In reply to] Can't Post

And a major factor in choosing an actor would have been not wanting a recognizable face that would take the audience out of the story...an unknown is far better in that respect. Who could imagine Uma Thurman as Eowyn without thinking "oh, it's that actress from 'Pulp Fiction/Batman & Robin'...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


glor
Rohan

Sep 2 2013, 2:29pm

Post #56 of 94 (267 views)
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Long shoots. [In reply to] Can't Post

may also be a factor. TV actors and those with RSC type theatre experience are used to working for 6 or 7 days a week for months, if not years on end. Big budget Hollywood movies take on average 3 to 4 months of an actors time to shoot, PJ's Tolkien epics take 3 years plus call backs.

Commiting to playing the same character for years on end is a feature of TV acting and PJ's M-E films. PJ needs actors with stamina, the kind of stamina that means working for 9 to 12 times longer on the same project than a big movie star is used to. TV and theatre actors have proven that they can do this, they have experience of long term commitment to a project/part, to working with the same team, such experience is rare in movie actors and when it does exist it tends to be because they have already played a highly iconic role, e.g. Bale's Batman, Radcliff's Harry Potter, that would, in all likelihood rule them out of a major part in PJ's Tolkien adaptations.

I agree PJ isn't looking outside the box, so much as outside Hollywood, I like many I know found the North American, unknown cast chosen for Hobbit comments that abounded when the film was cast funny, in fact the general consensus over here in Blightly was that this was a far more familar and well known cast than the one chosen for LOTR, suprisingly more well known that was expected hence, some British critics, looks like an expensive BBC special comments on AUJ.


(This post was edited by glor on Sep 2 2013, 2:30pm)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 4:17pm

Post #57 of 94 (253 views)
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Love love celery and onion comment! [In reply to] Can't Post

Perfectly said! HeartHeartHeartHeartHeart

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



TFP
Rivendell


Sep 2 2013, 4:30pm

Post #58 of 94 (245 views)
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Grim [In reply to] Can't Post

yup.

it's not just 'grim', Tolkien actually uses 'grim-faced'.

the chap they picked is far too handsome, clearly.

oh well.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 4:38pm

Post #59 of 94 (255 views)
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No, I'm talking about relevant roles in relevant movies [In reply to] Can't Post

Those that make a mark. Includes both starring and supporting roles. Huge majority of LOTR actors hasn't been in anything relevant since LOTR. Someone mentioned Karl Urban and David Wenham doing OK. They haven't been in anything relevant. 300, Van Helsing, Star Trek, Riddick, Red are nor relevant movies. Those roles are not interesting. In short, PJ hasn't picked actors who sparked industry interest in grooming them for long careers. Bloom faded quickly because he didn't try to get interesting roles that may not be commercial but stand the test of time. He was driven by purely commercial, get-my-ass-in-as-many-franchises-as-possible instinct and when his solo flight crash landed he had nothing to fall back on.

I think those actors are decent but not more than that. They pull off those stock roles, have the right look but don't bring anything new to the table that inspires the industry to give them real opportunities. Mortensen became Cronenberg's muse because he had pre-LOTR resume, which is something that many supposed discoveries simply didn't have (or industry didn't care for work in Oz, Britain,etc) and they didn't stand out in a cast of 50.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Symbelmine
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 5:15pm

Post #60 of 94 (242 views)
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That´s true Luke and Orlando look a bit alike [In reply to] Can't Post

but Bard doesn´t remind me of Will Turner at all.
The two actors also played together in The Three Musketeers.


tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 2 2013, 5:51pm

Post #61 of 94 (237 views)
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Familiar faces [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just thinking that is so true Glor, it's part of the charm for me. Ken Stott was Rebus, Richard Armitage was wotsisname who married Dawn French - in fact there was a look back on the Vicar of Dibley on some channel like Gold last night which I ended up having on because I couldn't be bothered to hunt for the remote control and he was included saying he laughed every day for two weeks - Martin Freeman was dear Tim from The Office and to me Jimmy Nesbitt will always be the bloke on Cold Feet with the rose up his bum!


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Sep 2 2013, 6:56pm

Post #62 of 94 (217 views)
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Yes, outside Hollywood... [In reply to] Can't Post

and primarily for character actors, not leading men, in the majority of roles. Good looks are only essential for a handful of roles! Wink

But going back to LotR, apart from Elijah, Liv, Hugo, Cate, Sir Chris and the two Sir Ians, of the "lesser" names I only knew Bernard Hill (Boys from the Black Stuff) and Dom Monaghan (Hetty Wainthrop Investigates.) I think from the Northern Hemisphere POV it really helped that so many Australian and NZ actors were cast both then and now in TH.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 7:46pm

Post #63 of 94 (206 views)
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Well, Aussies and Kiwis didn't go far after LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

Karl Urban is doing bit parts which is a shame because he's the most talented of the newcomers who got LOTR exposure. I hope his TV show's a success. Wenham thankfully faded after disasterous 300 speech and is back on Aussie screen only. I'm not from Oz so I don't have to put up with that torture. Miranda Otto got it the worst, I think. She and Billy Boyd. Just nothing of note. Maybe something in Oz and Britain from where they are from but nothing in US. Monaghan went from Lost to a reality show.

It's undeniable that Aussie talent that's getting real opportunities in Hollywood isn't from LOTR pool. In fact, I'd say that, outside of Cate who doesn't really count, and Hugo whose real break was Matrix, not LOTR, LOTR cast is doing the worst of Aussies with international recognition.

Same goes for Brits. Again, I don't count people who already established themselves prior to LOTR. Those who were supposed to beak out with it didn't go far (save Bloom's short-lived teen idol-dom and Andy cornering the mo'cap market).

My point is that it seems that PJ's cast in Middle Earth movies, as far as actors unknown to Hollywood go, aren't a caliber that stays on the radar after LOTR hype died down. I expect the same to be true for The Hobbit. The one from the cast that will have a long career is Cumberbatch who is already established, didn't break out with the Hobbit. He's in several movies that are hotly tipped for Academy Awards (12 Years a Slave is shoo-in, August Osage County is a huge possibility and 5th Estate is also in conversation) and hotly rumored to be cast in new Star Wars. he also has Oscar-friendly leading role next year. I don't see anyone else getting this level or half of this level of demand (not counting Cate).

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 2 2013, 7:53pm

Post #64 of 94 (198 views)
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Maybe they don't want to be in Hollywood... [In reply to] Can't Post

And are happy living and working somewhere else. There are other radars worth being on, you know!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 7:55pm

Post #65 of 94 (198 views)
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Well, some moved to Hollywood [In reply to] Can't Post

so I'd say they want to work there.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 2 2013, 8:31pm

Post #66 of 94 (192 views)
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Most of the British actors [In reply to] Can't Post

in The Hobbit have had long and very successful careers in film, TV, radio and theatre and I doubt it any of them are planning to drop out and become plumbers any time soon!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 9:18pm

Post #67 of 94 (185 views)
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Well, they can be plumbers for all I care cause they aren't visible [In reply to] Can't Post

in movies and US TV. Granted, US isn't the world but as David Frost said nothing compares to success in America. If you aren't on Holywood's radar you ain't on radar.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 2 2013, 9:33pm

Post #68 of 94 (174 views)
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Have you ever travelled outside America? [In reply to] Can't Post

If not, you should try it, you might find it educational.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Sep 2 2013, 9:37pm

Post #69 of 94 (175 views)
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sorry [In reply to] Can't Post

but there are many radars.

Sorry to hear about his death, but i couldnt disagree more.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Brethil
Half-elven


Sep 2 2013, 9:41pm

Post #70 of 94 (157 views)
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Even as an American I have to politely disagree. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!








Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 10:00pm

Post #71 of 94 (155 views)
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We get relevant program and movies from English speaking countries [In reply to] Can't Post

None of them has the likes of Wenham, Otto, Boyd just to name a few so I gather they aren't doing too hot in their respective countries either. There's constant influx of Aussies and Brits and those who are landing important roles range from character actress Jackie Weaver to hunks like Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston.

I don't understand hostility. I'm just pointing out that either PJ doesn't pick actors with potential for longevity or Middle Earth movies aren't career launchers because there are too many interchangeable characters. or maybe both. IMO, it's just more exciting to see someone break out and keep going than fizzle as soon as the movie hype dies. For me, it's very exciting to follow, lets say, Jennifer Lawrence career. From her indie breakout to superstar fame to Academy Awards to wacky, daring new role.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 2 2013, 10:59pm

Post #72 of 94 (139 views)
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It's not hostility [In reply to] Can't Post

It's amusement. There is a big world out there beyond the US of A you know!


Starling
Half-elven


Sep 3 2013, 7:02am

Post #73 of 94 (127 views)
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Success can come in many forms, [In reply to] Can't Post

in many places, and in many different ways. And people have different definitions of what they consider to be successful. Not every person in the acting industry has mainstream Hollywood or American TV success and mega fame as their goal. Indeed, some people would prefer to be under the Hollywood radar. Some are very selective about the roles they accept. Some have plenty of other acting roles going on that are in theatre, or independent films, or TV, and they may do these things for the satisfaction of their work, not for glory, or fame, or a big pay cheque. Some people have many other strings to their bow, and acting is but one. Some people would rather stay in their home country and perhaps take 'lesser' roles, so that they can live where they are happiest, and be where they feel they belong. Some prefer to put their energy into their family.
And some people may enjoy fame, or mega-fame for a period of time, but will also be content to leave it behind for something else.

I for one am very thankful for the many people who are not necessarily on 'Hollywood's radar', because they are the people who often give me the most rich and satisfying move, TV, and theatre experiences.


Starling
Half-elven


Sep 3 2013, 7:10am

Post #74 of 94 (121 views)
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What you consider relevant [In reply to] Can't Post

and what I consider relevant are clearly different.
I have seen both Miranda Otto, and Karl Urban, not to mention Viggo Mortensen, in challenging, complex, and critically acclaimed film roles post LOTR. I would call that interesting, and relevant.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 11:18am

Post #75 of 94 (112 views)
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Went through their filmographies [In reply to] Can't Post

Karl's got acclaim for Judge Dredd and Star Trek. I knew about those. maybe some NZ work too.

Otto's got no acclaimed work in US by the look of it. Some cancelled show Cashmere Mafia was deemed "worst new show." Ouch. I see that Aussie movie Blessed was acclaimed but Frances O'Connor was singled out as a standout. That's about it.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.


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