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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bard the Father of three children now?
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boldog
Rohan

Sep 1 2013, 1:28am

Post #1 of 51 (1193 views)
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Bard the Father of three children now? Can't Post

I found this very interesting to hear. I thought it was cool enough to see Bain with his Dad, but now to hear that there are another two children, this is almost amazing! It would be very nice to see some family life in Middle earth, and in particular, children having a bit of a role. it seems to me that there are two boys (Bain, Sigrid) and one girl (Tilda) Perhaps, as was mentioned, this is the girl that Tauriel heals. either way what do you all think of this, and could there be even deeper development of this family. what about their mother?? Btw were these characters officially cast anywhere?

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 1:44am

Post #2 of 51 (686 views)
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I hope there's no deeper development [In reply to] Can't Post

Bard's family jewels really isn't something that should get the focus in The Hobbit. There are too many important characters vying for limited screen time, so 3 kids (two of them made up) should take a way back seat. Tauriel can cure Tilda and may that be the last we see of Tilda. Say thank you and get out of sight.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



morro91
Bree

Sep 1 2013, 2:10am

Post #3 of 51 (612 views)
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Age [In reply to] Can't Post

I suspect Bain, who is what, 10-12ish, will be forefront, he seems to have filmed a fair bit.

I think the other two children will be younger, perhaps one even being a newborn. They will be very much background, ie. they exist, they're around, but won't have much to do.


Avner
The Shire

Sep 1 2013, 2:51am

Post #4 of 51 (620 views)
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Broken families... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the scene in Rotk with Sam and his family is very important. It is the first time we see a complete family...

Think about it - EVERYONE in the series has a broken family.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 3:01am

Post #5 of 51 (602 views)
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30 seconds [In reply to] Can't Post

and no speaking parts for kids. That's why Sam and family work. You get the emotional impact without them eating up screen time and annoying everyone. Movie families tend to suck when they are just a ploy to give underdeveloped main character default likability. Like, if he shares a cereal commercial moment with his wife, kids and dog/cat/both and is really a cypher and you are supposed to care for all of them. Just no. Besides, there are 3 more important family dramas going on - Thorin and his nephews which I consider a primary one (though it's likely to take a backseat to Mirkwood Place 90210) , Thorin and his father and afore mentioned Mirkwood Place 90210. Bard's cornflakes commercial breaks should be bottom of "Running-time Stretchers" list.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 1 2013, 3:03am)


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Sep 1 2013, 4:02am

Post #6 of 51 (590 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post

It is inconsequential. These are background characters that the majority of movie goers won't even notice.


DeadRabbits
Lorien


Sep 1 2013, 4:31am

Post #7 of 51 (580 views)
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Actually, Sigrid is a Scandinavian girls name... [In reply to] Can't Post

... so he has two daughters and one son. I guess you're confusing it with Sigfrid or -fried, which is a boys name.

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 4:54am

Post #8 of 51 (560 views)
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It's like I forgot about some kids in TTT [In reply to] Can't Post

and when people bring them out in discussion I go Who?

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



boldog
Rohan

Sep 1 2013, 5:03am

Post #9 of 51 (546 views)
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yeah but.... [In reply to] Can't Post

......Bard is a main character, and surely his children wont be seen in passing. we will likely see them in the majority of scenes where he is.

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 5:12am

Post #10 of 51 (543 views)
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Majority of scenes? [In reply to] Can't Post

Majority of his scenes are battles. I can see his teenage son join in but Tilda creature sounds like she's under 10 and Sigried or whatever that name is spelled is question mark age-wise. But it seems like the boy's oldest and has by far the biggest part. Johnny Cutie Pie who plays Bain said his character would fight. We didn't even know about the existence of other 2. Heck, Tilda seemed to be unrelated character whom Tauriel heals. I really hope they aren't setting up those girls to be Middle Earth's answer to Kick Ass's Hit Girl. Seriously.

Are those kids even played by real actors or they are crew member's kids in glorified cameos?

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 1 2013, 5:14am)


boldog
Rohan

Sep 1 2013, 6:34am

Post #11 of 51 (512 views)
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for some reason..... [In reply to] Can't Post

I can see this family relationship being somehow portrayed like that in the film Patriot. if u havnt seen it this is the similarity.
the main guy is a widower (Bard), and has a seven or so children. The oldest son however, tends to be the more closer and prominent one out of the children to his father and in the story itself (Bain). But from this films example, I can see how possibly the other two siblings of bain can be portrayed. they can have minor roles, but they are still important enough and known by the audience that they exsist. Not to mention they give Bard some reason to do things

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 1 2013, 6:58am

Post #12 of 51 (518 views)
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Could not care less [In reply to] Can't Post

about Bard's family.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Sep 1 2013, 6:58am)


tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 1 2013, 7:37am

Post #13 of 51 (492 views)
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Ditto [In reply to] Can't Post

It's one of a long list of things I could not care less about in this film.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 1 2013, 8:28am

Post #14 of 51 (488 views)
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Faces to recognise when Smaug attacks.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bringing the danger home - and emphasising Bard's courage in standing his ground. That's all they'll be. Emotional impact - like the women and children in the caves at Helm's Deep.

And does it matter who plays them? Would you rather a town with no people in it?


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 12:39pm

Post #15 of 51 (434 views)
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Town with people and wasting time on filler scenes [In reply to] Can't Post

Are two different things. I cared for Rohirrim in peril in general and not because two blank-faced kids with no speaking lines got about 5 minutes of screen time. They could've edited out those two and there would be the same effect. They weren't memorable at all and I was emotionally invested in other characters already who also represented Rohan. So I really don't need Tilda or whoever make me care for Laketwon since their situation is sympathetic enough. That's just lazy writing, IMO, such devices. You don't need them if you already laid ground for caring. Dragon attacks, people are dying, one hero rises to the occasion. I care. No need for Suri Cruise to break her arm to make me care for 10000 people who didn't. It's done without her.



"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Sep 1 2013, 2:45pm

Post #16 of 51 (410 views)
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Tolkkien never indicated that Bain was an only child [In reply to] Can't Post

I just wonder if their mother is still around or if Bard is a widower. This is the sort of tinkering that can work if it is done well, and isn't necessarily a violation of canon since the Professor never said when Bard married. There is just nothing in the book that suggests that he was wed or had children at the time of the Quest of Erebor.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Nira
Lorien


Sep 1 2013, 5:46pm

Post #17 of 51 (364 views)
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Having kids in a tale for kids makes sense, but [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they'll be a minor part of the story, just a few scenes. Maybe Smaug kills his wife or he's already a widower.

"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 5:56pm

Post #18 of 51 (364 views)
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Emotional Drivers [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the very significant differences I detect between those that are enjoying these unfolding movies and those that think they are a waste of electricity is the primary emotional driver of the latter is whether its canon to the 7 year olds children's book and appendices. If it is not strictly canon its naff, cheap Hollywood, lazy writing.

My reality is quite different I see in all but a few action scenes this re imagining an attempt to give the book an adult emotional context which is almost entirely absent until the final chapters of the book. In the prologue there is a split second image of a small child holding on to its doll, that provides the CGI with an emotional context. Its one image I remember, apart from the coming of Smaug and the wind affecting the vegetation and battlements of Erebor.

When Smaug attacks lake town it could be be a tiresome special affects bonanza but by witnessing it through specific characters jeopardy Bard, his family and Tauriel reacting to the horror of this appalling attack we can connect to an attack where some of the towns folk are drowned and burned. Indeed what will make the dragon real is not only the CGI design but the reaction of non CGI characters to him.

I do not want fantasy spectacle which is slavishly accurate to a half page in a children's book I want some thing richer which brings the events alive. The wonderful thing about Tolkien's adult books is that whilst the events occurred in a sub created world his characters moved within that world in an authentic emotional way. With the Hobbit the film makers have an opportunity to do the same.

When we have a full picture it will be fascinating to see which characters have been drawn forward and which have been left as mere colour. People make a lot of fuss about bringing Azog into the current time line but having Bolg turn up right at the end at the BOFA as in the book as the token baddy with no story or development just won't work after 7 or 8 hours of film.



In Reply To
Bringing the danger home - and emphasising Bard's courage in standing his ground. That's all they'll be. Emotional impact - like the women and children in the caves at Helm's Deep.

And does it matter who plays them? Would you rather a town with no people in it?


My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 1 2013, 6:20pm

Post #19 of 51 (341 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you're absolutely right (and after so much cynicism I'm also tempted to cheer!)

I was thinking of that very same glimpse of the child with the doll when writing that post. These are the images that stand out because they bring home the meaning of what's happening. Without them the thing would become empty for all its sophistication - a clever technical exercise with no heart.


Noria
Rohan

Sep 1 2013, 7:33pm

Post #20 of 51 (316 views)
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Michelle and Dormouse, I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I too remember that little girl watching her doll burn from my first viewing of AUJ, a symbol of all the living people of two races burned alive that day.

I have no objection to Bard's children being added to the story if they add depth and feeling to his character.

And I agree about the cynicism. Kinda unTolkienlike, isn't it?


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Sep 1 2013, 8:54pm

Post #21 of 51 (298 views)
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Not necessarily... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
One of the very significant differences I detect between those that are enjoying these unfolding movies and those that think they are a waste of electricity is the primary emotional driver of the latter is whether its canon to the 7 year olds children's book and appendices. If it is not strictly canon its naff, cheap Hollywood, lazy writing.



You cannot say that everyone who was disappointed by AUJ was disappointed by the same things. Some folks were miffed at the heavy use of CGI, others at the pinball-like physics, and yes, some at the serious alterations to canon. The more adult tone I'm fine with, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have made a more adult TH without altering the appendices material as much as they did.

I get the feeling Jackson could have inserted Godzilla into the story and some people would be declaring it an improvement over that "7 year olds children's book" that you seem to like to mock.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 1 2013, 10:11pm

Post #22 of 51 (283 views)
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Well, to be fair, note the wording.... [In reply to] Can't Post

"One of the ...." Doesn't that make it explicit that the poster isn't lumping everyone together as being disappointed by the same things? Just flagging up one of the diffferences.

And I'd be interested in seeing a post from anyone who fancied including Godzilla in The Hobbit. Personally I'd say Bard's children are a whole lot easier to justify


marillaraina
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 11:05pm

Post #23 of 51 (263 views)
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Funny you should mention them [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Emotional impact - like the women and children in the caves at Helm's Deep.


That scene annoyed me so much for some reason. Here you have all these ADULT women and they are coming to take taking little boys many of whom looked to be about 12 years old out to fight and die, while the women just stand there crying and doing well pretty much nothing useful.

How about taking the young women who hadn't had children(so had no children to be responsible for) or the women old enough for their children to be almost grown(thus again no young children to be responsible for but probably still only their 30's) instead of young boys who's voiced hadn't even changed yet? Even with those two groups of women in the fighting there were still plenty of women of child bearing age or who would be of marriageable age soon enough.

So it wasn't emotional for me, it was more like "down with the patriarchy!"(not literally, I'm exaggerating, but it did really bug me)

(PS: I believe Sigrid is a girl's name)


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Sep 1 2013, 11:07pm)


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Sep 1 2013, 11:50pm

Post #24 of 51 (254 views)
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.... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
One of the very significant differences I detect between those that are enjoying these unfolding movies and those that think they are a waste of electricity is the primary emotional driver of the latter is whether its canon to the 7 year olds children's book and appendices. If it is not strictly canon its naff, cheap Hollywood, lazy writing.

My reality is quite different I see in all but a few action scenes this re imagining an attempt to give the book an adult emotional context which is almost entirely absent until the final chapters of the book. In the prologue there is a split second image of a small child holding on to its doll, that provides the CGI with an emotional context. Its one image I remember, apart from the coming of Smaug and the wind affecting the vegetation and battlements of Erebor.

When Smaug attacks lake town it could be be a tiresome special affects bonanza but by witnessing it through specific characters jeopardy Bard, his family and Tauriel reacting to the horror of this appalling attack we can connect to an attack where some of the towns folk are drowned and burned. Indeed what will make the dragon real is not only the CGI design but the reaction of non CGI characters to him.

I do not want fantasy spectacle which is slavishly accurate to a half page in a children's book I want some thing richer which brings the events alive. The wonderful thing about Tolkien's adult books is that whilst the events occurred in a sub created world his characters moved within that world in an authentic emotional way. With the Hobbit the film makers have an opportunity to do the same.

When we have a full picture it will be fascinating to see which characters have been drawn forward and which have been left as mere colour. People make a lot of fuss about bringing Azog into the current time line but having Bolg turn up right at the end at the BOFA as in the book as the token baddy with no story or development just won't work after 7 or 8 hours of film.



In Reply To
Bringing the danger home - and emphasising Bard's courage in standing his ground. That's all they'll be. Emotional impact - like the women and children in the caves at Helm's Deep.

And does it matter who plays them? Would you rather a town with no people in it?









Michelle, this is one of the best posts I've ever read on this board.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 12:33am

Post #25 of 51 (236 views)
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Yeah, I didn't care for them either [In reply to] Can't Post

or for those 2 kids that Princess Eowyn waited table for (yeah, right...like that would ever happen).

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.


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