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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bowman of the Caribbean: Bard Look Rant
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Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:09pm

Post #1 of 94 (1883 views)
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Bowman of the Caribbean: Bard Look Rant Can't Post

I'm so miffed that they made Bard look like Will Turner (Pirates of the Caribbean) replica that I had to start a tread dedicated to this screw up. This is not aimed at the casting choice but at make-up and costume department going with the look that's unmistakably borrowed from another character from another franchise.

Bard in the book is an iconic character described simply as "grim". That should have given them a lot of freedom to play around his look in the movies. Moreover, when Luke Evans was cast, many pointed out his striking physical resemblance to Orlando Bloom, another cast member. However, this seems to be exactly what they wanted - to have Legolas AND Will Turner in one movie. There is absolutely no way that they didn't think Evans in Bard's costume wasn't a dead ringer to Turner. There is also no way that couldn't give Evans a look that makes resemblance less obvious, and still keep him dashing.

My question here is why they didn't give Bard a distinguished look that would make the character easily recognizable, instead of being mistaken for another. He isn't the first character in the movies where blatant borrowing from other sources is obvious (Bombur is Obelix Lite, Tauriel owns a lot to video games where red-haired warrior Elf women are a norm, etc) but is, IMO, most jarring because there was no reason for it. Bard is iconic. He doesn't have to borrow his look. Hobbit doesn't have to think in "grass is greener" terms. Yet they do. Someone thought that it would be more commercially viable to have Legolas and Will in the Hobbit than Legolas and Bard.

Moreover, Will Turner look is in direct contradiction with "grim". I get it that they wanted Thorin to be the grim heartthrob and Bard more to teen girls taste but that doesn't mean you have to create an exact replica of another teen girl favorite, and the one that doesn't even fit the "grim" bill. Seriously, what's next? Silmarillion starring Edward Cullen replica Beren? Crazy

Scenes and characters lifted from other movies take me out of the movie because I keep thinking "this is from...he/she looks like...". Hobbit really shouldn't be doing that. The book was a trailblazer so I understand that it's hard for movies coming decades after that to look fresh and unique when everyone was aping the source in the meantime. But that doesn't mean that they should ape other movies. What happened to creativity? They went into great lengths to give 13 dwarves 13 very different looks. OK, make it 12 because Kili's flowing hair doesn't count as an effort. So why didn't Bard, by far more important player than dwarves who aren't Thorin, get his recognizable Bardness? Such a waste, seriously.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Aug 31 2013, 10:13pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 31 2013, 10:12pm

Post #2 of 94 (796 views)
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LOL yep... [In reply to] Can't Post

I keep thinking Bill Nigh is gonna show up as Davy Jones every time I see Bard Angelic


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:21pm

Post #3 of 94 (729 views)
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Lol, same here [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm also worried about inclusion of his family because family has become a cheap device to somewhat humanize heavily underdeveloped characters. So writers think if they throw in few cornflakes moments, that's going to be enough for us to care for the daddy of the family. No sir, we won't. Last movie I saw that used this device was World War Z. Brad Pitt's character was a globe-trotting cypher and his useless family was only thrown in to, I dunno, make him likable because family men are likable by default? or something.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 31 2013, 10:41pm

Post #4 of 94 (702 views)
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Daniel Craig would've made a nice Bard // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Legomir
Bree

Aug 31 2013, 10:43pm

Post #5 of 94 (686 views)
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Personally, [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the idea that those involved in the series thought, "Hey, let's steal Will Turner's look and put in on Bard!" is an extreme stretch. Frankly, I think he does look "grim" and "black haired" which are his only two descriptions from the book. He looks exactly like how I pictured him. Sure, Luke Evans looks like the lovechild of Orlando Bloom and James McAvoy, but his Bard looks nothing like Orland's Legolas, so really I don't think there's any problem at all.


Shagrat
Gondor

Aug 31 2013, 10:45pm

Post #6 of 94 (709 views)
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I have NEVER once seen Will Turner when I look at Bard [In reply to] Can't Post

I also fail to see the resemblance between Luke Evans and Orlando Bloom. I can easily tell the two apart.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Aug 31 2013, 10:45pm)


Elessar
Valinor


Aug 31 2013, 10:45pm

Post #7 of 94 (683 views)
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I don't see the issue. [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose he a tiny bit does but it's a none issue for me personally.



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 31 2013, 10:45pm

Post #8 of 94 (694 views)
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I agree kind of [In reply to] Can't Post

Grim and weathered more middle aged a more sullen tone . Yeah D Craig would have made a good Bard


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:51pm

Post #9 of 94 (676 views)
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Ironically, I thought Norrington looked spot on Bard in POTC:DMC [In reply to] Can't Post

and was really mad that Hobbit couldn't use that look if it was ever made. Turns out, they had no problem with using POTC character look but they went with Will's. LOL.


"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Aug 31 2013, 10:52pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 31 2013, 10:52pm

Post #10 of 94 (672 views)
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His run down look? [In reply to] Can't Post

actually that would have probably worked Wink


Legomir
Bree

Aug 31 2013, 10:56pm

Post #11 of 94 (657 views)
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Speaking as a Jack Davenport fan... [In reply to] Can't Post

That would have been awesome! Just maybe a bit cleaner...


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:56pm

Post #12 of 94 (642 views)
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when he cleaned up a bit and fought with Will and Jack on the beach and wheel,etc [In reply to] Can't Post

C'mon, that was Bard...because they obviously wanted a rugged manly man a la Aragorn/Boromir in the movie. But he didn't come off as a knock-off because costume and make-up department did a bang on job and made him unique. However, there's no denying where inspiration came from.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:59pm

Post #13 of 94 (659 views)
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Speaking of clean, my beef is with too clean characters in the Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

LOTR didn't forget to throw some dirt on non-Elves but the Hobbit is sparkling clean all the way to the Orcs.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:01pm

Post #14 of 94 (652 views)
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That was a fantastic performance [In reply to] Can't Post

Seriously underrated but he was really one of top 3-4 in POTC. They cheated the character of a decent conclusion in the third.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 31 2013, 11:08pm

Post #15 of 94 (728 views)
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Bard is different: Counter rant.... [In reply to] Can't Post

They are both men, I give you that. Approximately the same age and dark haired. Hairstyle's similar, though Bard's is much curlier and rougher and I don't think he has a beard - not sure about that.

But think about it. Can you honestly see any professional design team, with a one-and-only chance to design a big film like this, putting their heads together and saying - "What look shall we give Bard? Ooo - I know. Will Turner - perfect!" If you've seen the LotR extended editions you'll remember their horror when they found that their carefully designed unique Army of the Dead was coming dangerously close to the zombie pirates of Pirates of the Caribbean, which they weren't even aware of until then? It just isn't the kind of thing they do deliberately. When the relevant 'Weta Chronicles' book comes out I bet you what you like they will have tried various looks for Bard and just chosen this one..

As for the costume, I've just been comparing pictures and it's nothing like. Will Turner comes in various frocks but they're all generic early eighteenth century western European. What little we've seen of Bard so far seems to be inspired - as many of the other Laketown/Dale costumes are inspired - by something much more east European and folk tale. Much looser and longer, more use of fur - a totally different style and shape.

For the rest? Well, he looks and sounds grim enough to me so far and not even remotely dashing. Bit of a scruff, actually. You feel as you feel - fair game, that's up to you, but I think you might be being a bit - hasty - on this one.


Legomir
Bree

Aug 31 2013, 11:14pm

Post #16 of 94 (628 views)
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Well as he's my favorite character... [In reply to] Can't Post

and has been since the first film, the perfect world would have had him join Jones's crew after getting stabbed, become fishy, betray him the battle, and become the new Davy Jones by stabbing the heart. But that's probably the most off-topic post I've ever made on these boards.

And I haven't given much thought to the amount of dirt on the characters, so I don't really have anything to say there. At the very least, they will have cobwebs on them by the end of the Mirkwood section.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:14pm

Post #17 of 94 (647 views)
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Good post [In reply to] Can't Post

However, I just don't think that anything is up to snuff this time around. Costumes and make-up are tired and borrowed, with one OTT dwarf design exception (the one with an axe stuck in his Motley Cru hair) and Thranduil's fabulous crown. I don't know. It's so cosplayish this time around.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:17pm

Post #18 of 94 (620 views)
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That's exactly how the third should have ended [In reply to] Can't Post

so if you don't mind, I'll PM you about that so we don't stray off topic. Laugh

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 31 2013, 11:17pm

Post #19 of 94 (645 views)
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Which designs, costumes or make-up were tired and borrowed in AUJ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Considering we haven't seen DoS yet, you can't really make judgement. The costumes could be completely transformed when observed in context.


Elessar
Valinor


Aug 31 2013, 11:29pm

Post #20 of 94 (623 views)
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Every bit as [In reply to] Can't Post

Good this time around IMO. The designs and looks are fantastic and a great look at other things in Middle-earth. I love how all the Dwarves look with the exception of Ori who looks alright. From what we've seen in DOS I love how the elves look and what changes we've seen in the Dwarves. IMO it's anything but cosplayish.



dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 31 2013, 11:34pm

Post #21 of 94 (614 views)
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Troll snot? Bird poo? [In reply to] Can't Post

And the dwarves could use some good washing powder on those undies!!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:37pm

Post #22 of 94 (608 views)
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I don't know [In reply to] Can't Post

I just think that Medieval fantasy costuming is exhausted at this point. Last one that really blew me away was Charlize Theron's garb in SWATH, even thought the movie blew chunks. And I guess thst after the glimpse of Mockingjay dress nothing looks mind-blowing anymore. That's just...words cannot describe the sheet shock and awe(someness).

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:38pm

Post #23 of 94 (603 views)
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I'm blocking bird poo from my mind [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Elessar
Valinor


Sep 1 2013, 12:01am

Post #24 of 94 (609 views)
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Old and tired [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't disagree some shows/movies have used the same look. However, I think this is what sets The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit apart is they don't for me at least feel that way.



morro91
Bree

Sep 1 2013, 2:19am

Post #25 of 94 (545 views)
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Don't see it [In reply to] Can't Post

It amazes me how some people can't distinguish different characters when watching films. Some in other threads a while back complained that Stephen Fry, Billy Connolly were too recognisable, and that other actors are similar, depending on the type of shows you've watched.

I've watched many things, and I never see Gandalf when I watch X-Men, I don't see Watson when I watch Bilbo etc. I don't see Will Turner when I see Bard.

So how Bard could be mistaken for Will Turner when watching the film, when Will Turner isn't in the film (yes the actor is, but Legolas isn't Will Turner), you'd have to be an ...

Yes the design is similar, but I'm sure you could end up going, Oh' Dumbledore looks like Gandalf, or Saruman looks like Gandalf the White, its just a fact of movies, that there are only so many ways you can do costumes and makeup/hair, of course you are going to get some similarities.

Then people complain when Beorn is radically different to the book (a fair complaint in this case), but perhaps the filmmakers were trying to avoid a 'Hagrid'/Wild-man look.

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