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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
could they resuse some scenes from lotr
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boldog
Rohan

Aug 21 2013, 11:16am

Post #1 of 58 (1387 views)
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could they resuse some scenes from lotr Can't Post

I was thinking the other day, if it is possible for Jackson to reuse any scene from lotr. Yes it sounds obsurd and stupid, but there is one particular, ground breaking, epic, and important scene that could be replayed in the hobbit. Isildur cutting the ring from Saurons hand. Could it be in one of the white council meetings, that Gandalf claims to have seen sauron, and knows he has returned, urging an attack. Elrond will be in great shock and horror and say something like. "But I saw him when he fell. When Isildur cut the ring from him." and it will be followed by a quick shot of that famous isildur sword swing and yell, and saurons fingers flying everywhere scene. either way I believe that it is only possible to do this. Any other scene doesn't appropriate to use in the hobbit. what do you think, and no negativeness!!



BTW sorry for two posts in a rowBlush

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"

(This post was edited by boldog on Aug 21 2013, 11:17am)


Shagrat
Gondor

Aug 21 2013, 11:27am

Post #2 of 58 (865 views)
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You know what would be even better? [In reply to] Can't Post

If, as part of his recollections, Elrond lamented what happened to Gil-Galad, and we finally got to see it.


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 21 2013, 12:40pm

Post #3 of 58 (698 views)
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Yes please to that! [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't expect it - no reason why it should be in The Hobbit - but I'd like to see it just the same.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 21 2013, 1:20pm

Post #4 of 58 (610 views)
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Copywright issues etc [In reply to] Can't Post

If you reuse the scene with isildur, you have to pay the actor who played him. Or he'll sue you. Reusing isn't simple at all.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards



DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 21 2013, 1:22pm

Post #5 of 58 (597 views)
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I presume there would be all sorts of scaling issues. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know the technicalities (I'm sure someone will fill us in), but The Hobbit trilogy has been shot in 3D, 48fps, and at 4k resolution. That would present a whole load of problems for a cinema release of old footage from The Lord of the Rings spliced into the new films. It would be rather expensive, as well as pointless. Wink The differences in footage would be too obvious, and nothing from the previous trilogy needs to be repeated or shown.

Saying that, it shouldn't be much of a problem if it was put on the DVD (since it would be in 2D and 24fps)? Would it? There will be some sort of resolution difference, but they could blur over the old footage (like a dream/flashback sequence) and would anyone know?



Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Aug 21 2013, 2:26pm

Post #6 of 58 (567 views)
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Not good. Not good at all. [In reply to] Can't Post

Why on earth would you want to see a scene from another film inserted?? It's already available on film - it's an integral part of FOTR. It's a key plot point for that film and has impact when you first see it.

The LOTR series will be watched, for the first time, by more people than have already seen it. A lot of them will be watching it after they have seen The Hobbit. Why would a film maker want to lessen the effect of a scene by inserting it into the other films in a series? No matter which way round you watch the films, the second viewing of a repeated scene is going to have less impact than it potentially could have.

A film maker who wanted to reference the same story in both films would simply film a new segment from another angle - a distant, soldier's eye view of the event, with Sauron's spirit dissipating, for example. That way, you could leave the ring out of it completely.

One of the joys of reading The Hobbit and then starting the LOTR books, is that something that you (and the characters in the book) have always considered a good thing - Bilbo's magical ring - suddenly becomes something quite different - and very sinister. It would be fun to see that happen in the films; even if you already know about the ring, it would be satisfying to see that plot unfold. It's also important to the plot of LOTR that the Ring is not in people's minds - it's considered lost or destroyed and is not thought about - which is why Gandalf has to ride to Minas Tirith to find obscure texts in the library that describe what it looks like. Making it a big thing in The Hobbit would completely subvert the opening chapters of LOTR, and also make the 'wise' seem like a bunch of idiots for not realising what Bilbo's ring was earlier on.


TheHutt
Gondor


Aug 21 2013, 3:35pm

Post #7 of 58 (492 views)
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They could just reshoot it... [In reply to] Can't Post

...with the same guy, for that part.

But I think this scene is not really needed in The Hobbit.

Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru


xxxyyy
Rohan

Aug 21 2013, 3:59pm

Post #8 of 58 (530 views)
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and then he gives him his Ring, just before dying. This is so good it's not going to happen. [In reply to] Can't Post

So much epic potential in these Hobbit movies... but I have already developed a negative attitude about them, I'm not even going to start hoping something like that will be in it.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


Shagrat
Gondor

Aug 21 2013, 4:06pm

Post #9 of 58 (494 views)
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I suspect... [In reply to] Can't Post

that would have to happen beforehand.


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 21 2013, 4:12pm

Post #10 of 58 (475 views)
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As long as Cirdan the Shipwright is at his side when Gil Galad falls I won't mind [In reply to] Can't Post

(That surprised no one)
Wink

But really I do think these films have enough filler anyway, and it seems like Jackson is recyling abanoned elements from the LOTR films anyway-orcs persuing the company into the woods, an orc spy in laketown (I read at one point they were going to have an orc spy in bree in FOTR), people shooting at the company as they are going doen river, sauron turning up at the final big battle (if the rumous of Necromancer at BOFA are true that is)...

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.

But he isn't quite as aweome as Cirdan.


Thranderz
Rohan


Aug 21 2013, 4:14pm

Post #11 of 58 (500 views)
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Elrond may even be angry at Gandalf [In reply to] Can't Post

for even suggesting Sauron's return, when Gil-Galad had sacrificed himself in the effort to defeat Sauron the first time. Although it would be cool, we're just dreaming here. Frown

I simply walked into Mordor.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 21 2013, 4:55pm

Post #12 of 58 (446 views)
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I'll simply say NO [In reply to] Can't Post

the Hobbit is not supposed to be about Sauron OR the Ring. Bilbo... Yes, Thorin... sure why not, Gandalf... ok. But more about Sauron and the ring NO it's just not needed. Sauron and the ring get 3 whole movies about them called LOTR so IMO they do not need any more screen time than necessary. Wink


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Aug 21 2013, 5:35pm

Post #13 of 58 (452 views)
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Or Perhaps Scenes that Didn't Make the Cut [In reply to] Can't Post

Apparently scenes were filmed that didn't make the final cut of the movie, like Aragorn and Arwen's wedding. I also remember reading somewhere that Frodo sees a vision of Aragorn and Arwen's first meeting. That might be an interesting insert in TABA even though the chronology is not quite right.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 21 2013, 5:43pm

Post #14 of 58 (432 views)
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I'd freak out if we saw Aragorn before his amazing intro in FOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

That was one of the best character intros in movies. Light of his pipe briefly lit his eyes so you didn't know if he was good or bad but you were so intirgued wondering who that was. Showing him before that scene would ruin the mystery when one watches all 6 movies from AUJ to ROTK.

I also love Arwen into in Frodo's vision, when she gets off her horse and is all shiny and fairy-like.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Aug 21 2013, 5:45pm)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Aug 21 2013, 6:26pm

Post #15 of 58 (417 views)
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25th aniversary [In reply to] Can't Post

Wait for itWink

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 21 2013, 6:29pm

Post #16 of 58 (411 views)
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They'll have to replace Holm's Riddles flashback with Marty's [In reply to] Can't Post

That one's a given. And no one should yell "Lucas!". It's just few seconds of younger Bilbo time so putting Marty's Bilbo in place of Holm's one is no insult to Holm.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Aug 21 2013, 6:31pm)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Aug 21 2013, 6:33pm

Post #17 of 58 (406 views)
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That will come eariler than the 25th edition [In reply to] Can't Post

In the meanwile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUQkozXntlE

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 21 2013, 7:25pm

Post #18 of 58 (376 views)
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I was also disappointed [In reply to] Can't Post

that Jackson chose to almost exactly copy the scene with Bilbo falling and the ring miraculously falling onto Bilbo's finger which was almost exactly like the scene with Frodo in Bree from FOTR. Honestly I hope they leave Holm's scene in FOTR and do NOT replace it with Freeman's. For me its almost like Bilbo did steal the ring. I took it as Bilbo seen the ring fall and merely went and picked it up. He wasn't feeling around in the dark blindly and stumbling upon the ring. When Gollum was calling him their he seemed to know exactly what Gollum was talking about. So I personally prefer the way it was shown in FOTR where Bilbo was feeling around in the dark and finds the ring then examines it while shoving it in his pocket without a second though.plus there being a few scenes where the dialogue was the same as LOTR with only a word here or there changed. For the Hobbit to come 10 years after LOTR you would have thought they could have gave the characters fresh and original dialogue to work with instead of rehashing stuff from LOTR.

Besides all the material from LOTR was shot on film and the new stuff from the Hobbit all digital, So I think it would be more work than it's worth to try and convert 10 - 14 year old footage just for a few seconds in the Hobbit.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 21 2013, 7:28pm

Post #19 of 58 (361 views)
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I like the video you posted below [In reply to] Can't Post

But I hope they don't do it - it's rather needless, and Ian Holm will always be my Bilbo. Evil

If the plan was always to re-edit the footage, then I'm surprised they didn't get Freeman to say "What's this?", to mirror the current prologue. It feels like it needs it in the video you posted.

Good job. Did you make it?

Smile



Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Aug 21 2013, 7:36pm

Post #20 of 58 (337 views)
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No its not mine [In reply to] Can't Post

Iwas looking for fotage comparison and some sort of visual links between two trilogies. I lik it more tan Ian´s, but yes it feels like I miss the ´whats this?´ line

What I started to do formyself is a mega cut with all lotr and hobbit movies cronologically

it is MADNESS

i left it because its exaustingCrazy

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 21 2013, 8:02pm

Post #21 of 58 (341 views)
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callback to Frodo and the ring made sense [In reply to] Can't Post

Callback to Luke and dying Vader, with Eowyn and dying Theoden saying almost exact lines form ROTJ, not so much. I I've no objection to their saying final goodbyes but why make a callback to ROTJ dialog that most people know by heart?

Luke: But you'll die.
Darth Vader: Nothing... can stop that now. Just for once... let me... look on you with my *own* eyes.
Anakin: Now... go, my son. Leave me.
Luke: No. You're coming with me. I'll not leave you here, I've got to save you.
Anakin: You already... have, Luke.

Theoden: I know your face... Eowyn. My eyes darken.
Eowyn: No. No. I'm going to save you.
Theoden: You already did... Eowyn.

Those are the things that pull me out of the movie ebcause I go "hey this from_______". At least Bilbo's callback was within Middle Earth universe.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards



Ardamírë
Valinor


Aug 21 2013, 8:17pm

Post #22 of 58 (325 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually wouldn't be totally opposed to something like that if it was done for a future release. I already have my original release, so I wouldn't mind to have another copy that has Freeman as Young Bilbo. That's the kind of change I can get behind.

However, I'd want it done much more professionally than that fan edit. The choice of shots of Freeman seemed off to me. Surely there are better shots that could be put in...

THE SONG OF TUOR
Only the reeds were rustling, but a mist lay on the streams
Like a sea-roke drawn far inland, like a shred of salt sea-dreams.
'Twas in the Land of Willows that I heard th'unfathomed breath
Of the Horns of Ylmir calling - and shall hear them till my death.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 21 2013, 8:22pm

Post #23 of 58 (313 views)
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They can always shoot a scene with Marty to match the Holm one [In reply to] Can't Post

Instead of just cutting and pasting existing scene from AUJ.

It isn't like Holm would be completely erased from the saga. It's just a micro scene and, frankly, now that we have Hobbit trilogy, Marty's Bilbo should be in that scene. Holm worked in FOTR because the scene was so small some people would have been confused about who that character was. But with Hobbit trilogy released, people will know that person in the flashback is younger Bilbo.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards



Ardamírë
Valinor


Aug 21 2013, 8:24pm

Post #24 of 58 (322 views)
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Eowyn/Theoden exchange [In reply to] Can't Post

I adore that exchange between them. I think it's perfect, even if it's a callback to ROTJ.

Speaking of Jedi, I love it, but to this day I'm not entirely sure why Vader died. I mean, what killed him? He got a mechanical hand cut off (big deal...), and then picks up the emperor and throws him to the abyss, and he seems fine. Then all of a sudden he's dying... Any insights on that?

THE SONG OF TUOR
Only the reeds were rustling, but a mist lay on the streams
Like a sea-roke drawn far inland, like a shred of salt sea-dreams.
'Twas in the Land of Willows that I heard th'unfathomed breath
Of the Horns of Ylmir calling - and shall hear them till my death.


Ardamírë
Valinor


Aug 21 2013, 8:28pm

Post #25 of 58 (308 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Like I said, it wouldn't bother me if it was changed since I have the original version. But yeah, it would have to be shot specifically for the intro so that it flowed better and didn't feel like a copy-and-paste from AUJ. Also, I don't know, but should it be shot on film for visual continuity, or would a brief shot or two be noticeable?

THE SONG OF TUOR
Only the reeds were rustling, but a mist lay on the streams
Like a sea-roke drawn far inland, like a shred of salt sea-dreams.
'Twas in the Land of Willows that I heard th'unfathomed breath
Of the Horns of Ylmir calling - and shall hear them till my death.

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