Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Is this Beorn?! (spoilers)
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All

ShireHorse
Rohan

Aug 11 2013, 9:48pm

Post #126 of 150 (1039 views)
Shortcut
These tribal groups in England were pre-Roman but [In reply to] Can't Post

also post-Roman nor would I describe then as Iron Age since that period lasted only up until the Romans came. They didn't just disappear once the Romans arrived - they lived with the Romans in control of them for 500 years and then lived alongside the Anglo-Saxons once they invaded and gave us the story of King Arthur. Tolkien was interested in anything pre-Norman that might have given the English a mythology: thus Anglo-Saxons, Jutes, Danes/Vikings, "Celts" and Britons. That was our heritage and make-up at the time and can still be found in our DNA.


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Aug 11 2013, 9:49pm

Post #127 of 150 (1052 views)
Shortcut
Origin [In reply to] Can't Post

If you have read the history of the Hobbit, Beorn was originally named Medwed in early drafts and had some Slavic influence.


Kendalf
Rohan


Aug 11 2013, 10:04pm

Post #128 of 150 (1010 views)
Shortcut
Yes, of course, the Celts probably made up the majority of the population [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
There were Celts in Britain at the same time as the Saxons...for a long time native British people (Celts) and Saxons shared these islands and there's nothing misguided or ill-informed about drawing on the native British for design inspiration.


Yes, there certainly were. But by the late fifth century AD (when the Angles, Saxons and Jutes started arriving), they'd been living for four hundred years under "the rule of the Caesars". None of the were spiking their hair up with pig-fat anymore, none of them were painting themselves with woad. These methods of display had gone out of fashion as much as five hundred years previously (if, indeed, they were ever that widespread at all - we have barely any literary evidence for it bar Caesar's "Gallic Wars").

And if I take Tolkien's name for the character (Anglo-Saxon for bear), Tolkien's description of the character (no mention of Celtic-style mohawk) and Tolkien's sketch of his Hall (the archetypal Anglo-Saxon Great Hall a la Beowulf), then I can't help but reach the conclusion that looking to Iron Age Celtic Britain is looking to the wrong place and the wrong time...

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 11 2013, 10:20pm

Post #129 of 150 (974 views)
Shortcut
Spiking their hair up with pig fat? [In reply to] Can't Post

Given that we have hardly anything to go on yet as regards Beorn's design, I doubt very much if what we see in that picture is inspired by any kind of artificial hair spiking, with pig fat, hair gel or anything else (though I still don't accept your definition of this as 'Iron Age')

I don't think they were thinking of any human culture at all in designing the hair. I reckon that the hair on Beorn the man echoes the heavy shoulders of the bear and the way its hair falls on the shoulders, and it looks like a very clever and interesting design.


Kendalf
Rohan


Aug 11 2013, 10:25pm

Post #130 of 150 (961 views)
Shortcut
Post-Roman Saxon Beorn shouldn't be sporting a pre-Roman Celtic hairstyle [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
(The Celts) didn't just disappear once the Romans arrived - they lived with the Romans in control of them for 500 years and then lived alongside the Anglo-Saxons once they invaded and gave us the story of King Arthur. Tolkien was interested in anything pre-Norman that might have given the English a mythology: thus Anglo-Saxons, Jutes, Danes/Vikings, "Celts" and Britons. That was our heritage and make-up at the time and can still be found in our DNA.


Yes, indeed. You've summed up the cultural and ethnic melange that made up pre-Conquest England perfectly there Smile

My point though, and it may be pedantic and I may be in the minority, is that the post-Roman / Dark Age Celts were a very different bunch from the ones Caesar had encountered in 55 BC and 54 BC. The Celts that gave us the story of Arthur weren't naked, daubed in blue vegetable matter and smearing animal-fat into their hair. They had changed "with the Romans in control of them for 500 years" as you put it.

Therefore, to justify this design for Beorn of all people (who has a Saxon name and lives in a Saxon hall) by saying that "but the Celts had mohawks" is just stretching it a little too far in my opinion Unsure

That's all Smile

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Kendalf
Rohan


Aug 11 2013, 10:44pm

Post #131 of 150 (903 views)
Shortcut
The Celts used it, not Beorn! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Spiking their hair up with pig fat? Given that we have hardly anything to go on...I doubt very much if what we see...is inspired by any kind of artificial hair spiking (though I still don't accept your definition of this as 'Iron Age')


Apologies. When you said "there's nothing misguided or ill-informed about drawing on the native British for design inspiration", I thought you were expressing your support for the various posts that had stated they liked the fact that Beorn had a mohawk "because the Celts used to". That's why I brought up the pig fat. I don't think for a minute that DoS's Beorn will do that!!

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


ShireHorse
Rohan

Aug 11 2013, 11:02pm

Post #132 of 150 (933 views)
Shortcut
I shall be pedantic now, LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

The Celts spiked their hair with lime, not animal fat, which had a stiffening and bleaching effect.

Until we see a proper pic, it is difficult to tell what is going on. Perhaps the hair indicates an animal form of growth or perhaps it hints at an historic or ancient people like the picture of Ghan-buri-ghan that someone suggested higher up the page which reminds me of British tribal people:

http://lotr.wikia.com/...3%A2n-buri-Gh%C3%A2n

Any imaginative input like this is fair enough as far as I'm concerned. But I want something vaguely strange and Northern European not a 19th century lumberjack from the forests of America.


Kendalf
Rohan


Aug 11 2013, 11:18pm

Post #133 of 150 (997 views)
Shortcut
Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The Celts spiked their hair with lime, not animal fat, which had a stiffening and bleaching effect.

Until we see a proper pic, it is difficult to tell what is going on. Perhaps the hair indicates an animal form of growth...Any imaginative input like this is fair enough as far as I'm concerned.


Ah! And there was me sure it was a mixture of the two; the fat first facilitating the sculpting and then the lime-water drying to provide the stiffening.

Anyway, I'm with you. I don't actually think for one second that Celtic warrior hairstyles actually are the inspiration here. It's zoomorphism, plain and simple. Whether it's successful, we'll just have to wait and see, like you say...

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Aug 11 2013, 11:38pm

Post #134 of 150 (922 views)
Shortcut
I can't recall. [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien gives an explicit description of Beorn's appearance?
The description includes a beard?
Honestly, given the actor, I could imagine Beorn without a beard and
with short, regular cut hair. I could see him with hardened, angular
countenance with scars. His dress, for me, would be more evocative
than anything corporeal (human form). And i'd imagine his dress being
rather simple. Cool
After all, Beorn turns into a bear. This, for me, is amply "sensational" in
itself. What do you think?


Kendalf
Rohan


Aug 11 2013, 11:53pm

Post #135 of 150 (950 views)
Shortcut
I believe so... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If you have read the history of the Hobbit, Beorn was originally named Medwed in early drafts and had some Slavic influence.


Yes, I think I vaguely recall that from somewhere or other Smile Doesn't Medwed mean (or have some relation to the word) "bear" too, just like the Norse beorn that he ended up settling for?

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


(This post was edited by Kendalf on Aug 11 2013, 11:55pm)


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Aug 12 2013, 12:20am

Post #136 of 150 (984 views)
Shortcut
meaning [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Medwed had relation to both honey eater and mead in Slavic but its been a while since I read it.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Aug 12 2013, 7:00am

Post #137 of 150 (864 views)
Shortcut
Yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

  
As I posted up thread:




Quote

"Standing near was a huge man with a thick black
beard and hair, and great bare arms and legs with knotted muscles. He was
clothed in a tunic of wool down to his knees, and was leaning on a large axe."






Beorn should most certainly have a beard - and Persbrandt wears a beard well...to me, this shot of Mikael gives us the perfect jovial Beorn:



I'm guessing that, given his age and greyer colouring now, the make up team simple found that black hair and beard wouldn't work very well.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Na Vedui
Rohan


Aug 12 2013, 5:55pm

Post #138 of 150 (784 views)
Shortcut
Medved [In reply to] Can't Post

Medved is Russian for "bear" ; med (if I remember rightly, with dots on the e and pronounced myod) is honey, and it is related to our word mead.


Kendalf
Rohan


Aug 12 2013, 6:50pm

Post #139 of 150 (915 views)
Shortcut
Nice! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Medved is Russian for "bear" ; med (if I remember rightly, with dots on the e and pronounced myod) is honey, and it is related to our word mead.


Nice, Na Vedui! Thanks Smile

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


adnan
Rivendell


Aug 12 2013, 7:45pm

Post #140 of 150 (805 views)
Shortcut
I totally agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

The director is giving us his vision, so I can accept changes in design. I can't believe the negativity going about just by looking at a poor picture. I am glad he doesn't look like a cliched mountain man; really looking forward to December!

Rivendell


adnan
Rivendell


Aug 12 2013, 7:52pm

Post #141 of 150 (847 views)
Shortcut
Excellent point!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Rivendell


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 13 2013, 12:40am

Post #142 of 150 (855 views)
Shortcut
I think it looks horrible [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean for a character who was perfectly described by Tolkien to look NOTHING like the description given is just awful. right now I think most of the concept designs of DOS look awful, Smaug to me looks bad, Beorn looks terrible, Bard looks like some ragamuffin Robin Hood, Radagast is still covered in Bird crap. So far the designs make me think LOTR was a fluke Unsure


Runk Snusgrop
Rivendell


Aug 13 2013, 6:54am

Post #143 of 150 (831 views)
Shortcut
Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

I love it! Not what I expected, but it looks cool as hell.

If I want the lumberjack Beorn, I'll read the book. I appreciate that the films give us a different take.



Skaan
Lorien


Aug 13 2013, 11:47am

Post #144 of 150 (816 views)
Shortcut
How does he look NOTHING like the description? [In reply to] Can't Post

Beorn wasn't perfectly described in the book. It was said he was very tall (check), had huge arms (looks like it in the picture, so check), had a great beard (again, looking at all the pictures so far, it does seem like he has a beard, check). Also, i could be wrong about this, but wasn't it also said that he was barechested? If so, check.

The only thing that doesn't seem to be like the book described is the black hair. But is this really enough to warrant the claim that he looks "NOTHING" like in the book? I don't really think you're being fair on this one.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Aug 13 2013, 1:23pm

Post #145 of 150 (718 views)
Shortcut
I'll post this quote again, then... [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ's Beorn:

Huge man - yes...
bare arms - yes...
bare legs - no...
Thick black hair & beard - no...
Tunic of wool down to him knees (ie no bare chest) - no...

2 out of 5 Smile



Quote

"Standing near was a huge man with a thick black beard and hair, and great bare arms and legs with knotted muscles.
He was clothed in a tunic of wool down to his knees, and was leaning on a large axe."







"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Skaan
Lorien


Aug 13 2013, 2:16pm

Post #146 of 150 (808 views)
Shortcut
My apologies [In reply to] Can't Post

Seems like i missed/was wrong about a few details then. But still, we don't really know about the beard yet and i think it's not really fair to say his design looks nothing like in the book.

Some people here are acting like they've butchered Beorn, which i think is just silly. His house/halls look pretty accurate to me, he still seems to have animals (we've seen goats in the calendar pic and a black pig in the DoS sneak peek), he's very big, he has an axe and chops wood, etc etc.

I understand people being passionate about the book, but i don't understand why some people find it so hard to accept some changes here and there, or why they aren't willing to give it a chance first. This is not directed towards you btw, but more in general.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Aug 13 2013, 2:36pm

Post #147 of 150 (794 views)
Shortcut
I think most people could accept the change of hair colour, [In reply to] Can't Post

and indeed clothing...to me it's the bizarre look of the hair that is unsettling - why so high off the forehead, for a start? and of course we can't see the face properly but as someone else pointed out in one of the other threads, if they've gone for a half-man/half-beast look then it kinda takes away from the idea that Beorn is either man or bear at different times, not permanently a mixture of the two.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort


Skaan
Lorien


Aug 13 2013, 2:54pm

Post #148 of 150 (764 views)
Shortcut
The hair [In reply to] Can't Post

My crazy theory is that Beorn will be able to raise/lower his hair as a form of expression. I know this will probably sound ridiculous, but hey, you never knowWink

Also, in this picture that someone else posted in another thread, it looks like his hair isn't as high as in the calendar pic (although this could be the way they "contain" his hair when they're not shooting)


adnan
Rivendell


Aug 15 2013, 6:38pm

Post #149 of 150 (755 views)
Shortcut
Perhaps... [In reply to] Can't Post

Because the designers want to create a unique look, and not merely do a copy/paste job of the book...this is why film is a different medium. Books can be for purists, but a film-maker & his team should be allowed to be flexible and portray their version of the book. I am glad the team has that freedom here. People who expected the films to be a
regurgitation of the book set themselves up to be let down from the get-go. Remember when Throin's look was first revealed? People were up in arms, and now that is largely over; and with this its the same thing...this trend will continue until the trilogy is completed & viewed by all. Just saying :)

Rivendell


redgiraffe
Rohan

Aug 15 2013, 7:29pm

Post #150 of 150 (665 views)
Shortcut
Mhmm [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Because the designers want to create a unique look, and not merely do a copy/paste job of the book...this is why film is a different medium. Books can be for purists, but a film-maker & his team should be allowed to be flexible and portray their version of the book. I am glad the team has that freedom here. People who expected the films to be a
regurgitation of the book set themselves up to be let down from the get-go. Remember when Throin's look was first revealed? People were up in arms, and now that is largely over; and with this its the same thing...this trend will continue until the trilogy is completed & viewed by all. Just saying :)


I definitely agree with your sentiment.

Honestly, I don't care as much about his design or anyone's design really matching the book perfectly. I mean I do want the design to be fitting for a character so that it's believable and we can see the design fitting for what they do. With Beorn, I think his design could be fitting for the character. We'll have to wait to see the full thing in the movie.

I mean weren't hobbits supposed to be slightly chubby? As you mentioned, Thorin's design was different. And while I think he would have looked great with a longer beard I still think his design was great. Yes it was different than the book, but it was still dwarven and regal enough to make it believable as seeing him as a dwarf king.

The only part that I'm unsure about is just whether or not I like the design. It does look outlandish and different. But we've only had very small photos to see what he looks like. And again, we still haven't seen him in the film.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle

(This post was edited by redgiraffe on Aug 15 2013, 7:31pm)

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.