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Tardy to the party...

Brethil
Half-elven


Aug 7 2013, 2:22am


Views: 242
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Tardy to the party... [In reply to] Can't Post

...after a very busy work week! Thank you for posting such a unique way to approach the topic! AngelicCool

TEST:

That test is very neat BTW, and thank Fealoki for us for crafting such a thoughtful and creative bit of insight!

I am a Feanor/Haleth BTW!

For myself, I was quite happy with the names I saw...and I found the descriptions uncannily accurate (like wise for me the others were not, when I looked them all over. So it feels quite a good fit and not random.) Does it appeal to vanity maybe, to see names one might feel a rapport with? Yes. I would also say it is a compliment to your test, as maybe the flattery comes from the existing identification with these characters (that would be my case, Haleth being one of my all time favorites, and also having a fondness for Feanor.) My only thought might be, if one shared the qualities say, of Miriel, perhaps that persona might not be displeasing?

GONDOLIN and FATE:

My answer to Gondolin's fall is that it was *ultimately* fated, yet its method of loss is not. More importantly it WAS foreseen. I think Ulmo's bit in the adventure is successful, as Idril and Turgon produce Earandil; and as the world needs him to, Earandil ends up at the shores of the Western sea. I think if Ulmo could have saved them all, he would have; he did try. But the choice is Turgon's, and he has fallen prey to what Ulmo feared - he loves too dearly the creation of his hands and his heart and cannot leave it.

The Elf kingdoms, in line with the plan of Eru (thus defined as fate), must recede and make way for the dominion of Men. But I think the ever active Ulmo tried to both weave circumstances (not fate - more like manipulating the odds) to move Arda towards what it needs, and what can combat brother Morgoth (whom he knows so very well.) So I see here in the specifics of the fall of Gondolin:

- Vision
- Planning
- Intuition (as Ulmo cannot foresee what Men will do, but he can make predictions and judgment calls)
- Concerted action...
...and on Turgon's part, a choice.

As opposed to fate. So I think the conclusion may be foregone, but the mechanics are a matter of choice and foresight of the players involved.

I think Turgon may not have been convinced by anyone to leave: the mere fact that Ulmo warns Turgon against the very thing that does happen indicates that it is a strong possibility that it CAN happen. I think Ulmo has seen it as one of many options, within the Song, of how things could happen. What may have been difficult for another Elf is impossible for Turgon: to leave that city modeled after the life the Noldor had enjoyed in the Blessed Realm. So maybe Tuor was the best hope, as you point put, being a Man and maybe able to shape things in a way Ulmo cannot see - perhaps that is the hope there.

That maybe by tossing a wild card into the mix the outcome that Ulmo has seen may change?

Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!







Subject User Time
silmarillion chapter discussion -- "of tuor and the fall of gondolin" Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 4 2013, 10:27pm
    Predictions and prophecies noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 5 2013, 9:39am
        predictions, blessings, prophecies and self-fulfilling prophecies Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 5 2013, 1:15pm
            There's also an author in the mix... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 5 2013, 3:22pm
            Ulmo's powers, intentions and limits noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 6 2013, 11:49am
                Knowledge and manipulation CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 11 2013, 7:13pm
                    great post, curiousg Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 11 2013, 11:31pm
                        Nevrast's value Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 12 2013, 12:01am
                            interesting thought Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 1:15am
                                Higher-ups helping out... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 13 2013, 8:54pm
                                    i think Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 13 2013, 9:09pm
            A thought about DOOM noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 6 2013, 11:55am
                i think this fits the words of namo better Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 6 2013, 12:04pm
                    Certainly at least part-punishment noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 6 2013, 12:21pm
                        i think it's more than part-punishment... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 6 2013, 12:33pm
                            it sure sounds very much like a sentence/punishment, but I think it could be seen just as much as a prophecy elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Aug 6 2013, 6:13pm
                    Crimes and punishments CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 8 2013, 8:55pm
    Quick 1st answer CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 5 2013, 6:42pm
        delightful first answer : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 5 2013, 7:15pm
            PS. Why are you STILL in the Grey Havens? CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 5 2013, 7:48pm
                i rather Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 5 2013, 8:10pm
        so now Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 4:00am
            Hmmm CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 13 2013, 5:00am
    Hmmmm.......... Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 5 2013, 8:00pm
        hmmmmm.... : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 9 2013, 9:35pm
            Just in general Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 10 2013, 3:30am
                That was my reaction too Rembrethil! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 10 2013, 3:53am
        now that Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 3:56am
            I would think that it is still pretty accurate Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 12 2013, 4:10am
    some answers elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Aug 5 2013, 9:02pm
        hallo : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 9 2013, 9:46pm
            hmm elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Aug 11 2013, 1:05am
    Some general thought on the chapter. Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 6 2013, 5:06pm
    Tardy to the party... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 7 2013, 2:22am
        a question elostirion74 Send a private message to elostirion74 Aug 7 2013, 2:12pm
            Thanks Elostirion! And I think you are spot on here Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 7 2013, 4:51pm
                Doom and pragmatism CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 8 2013, 8:36pm
                    Pride and choice ... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 8 2013, 9:30pm
                    "Leave Gondolin and go +where?+" noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 9 2013, 12:09pm
                        if glaurung is dead... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 8:29pm
                    more great thoughts, cg Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 4:36am
            interesting ... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 4:48am
        loved all your thoughts Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 4:20am
            More fate vs choice Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Aug 13 2013, 8:35pm
                great responses! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 13 2013, 9:00pm
                    Really late to the feast but.... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Aug 15 2013, 10:12pm
                        heya : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 15 2013, 10:31pm
                            Re: Sil characters... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Aug 15 2013, 11:26pm
                                dang : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 15 2013, 11:43pm
                Great insight into Maeglin CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 14 2013, 2:53am
    A chapter fought over by two prophecies noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 9 2013, 12:16pm
    A pithy quote Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 9 2013, 5:37pm
    Sil and the Enneagram telain Send a private message to telain Aug 9 2013, 10:24pm
        hey, telain : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 9 2013, 10:51pm
    So, I'm either Trin or Mriel Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Aug 10 2013, 11:02am
        Memo to self: call someone (who deserves it) an "aJSDufSJHKDJAjasfhalhfg idiot "! But how do you pronounce it? // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 10 2013, 8:04pm
            [ay-sdu-fsyh-kdya-yas-fhalh-fg] would be the correct IPA pronunciation.// Faenoriel Send a private message to Faenoriel Aug 11 2013, 2:05pm
                What? Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 11 2013, 5:00pm
                    Maybe it all makes more sense after a few pints of IPA // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 11 2013, 8:23pm
                        I can read IPA Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 12 2013, 3:16am
                            Maybe I regret staring this IPA query... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Aug 12 2013, 8:58am
        re the personality profiles and the characters Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 11 2013, 11:42pm
            I like that last thought Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 12 2013, 2:54am
                exactly! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 2:58am
    fwiw, i found Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 12:42am
        Cool quiz! arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Aug 13 2013, 6:41pm
            so glad you liked it!!! : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 13 2013, 9:48pm
                I don't like the test CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 14 2013, 2:33am
            how one views oneself vs. how the world views you Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 13 2013, 10:11pm
            ok -- found it -- Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 13 2013, 10:21pm
                Maeglin arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Aug 14 2013, 12:46am
                    great insights! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 14 2013, 1:03am
                    what if Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 14 2013, 1:04am
                        Ha ha! arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Aug 14 2013, 1:55am
                        I think Morgoth would have to be a #3. CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 14 2013, 2:24am
                            Tolkien's Evil Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 14 2013, 3:04am
                                largely in agreement... Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 15 2013, 10:39pm
                                    Without getting TOO philosophical Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Aug 16 2013, 12:57pm
                    This is a great observation CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Aug 14 2013, 2:20am
    Ulmo Hamfast Gamgee Send a private message to Hamfast Gamgee Aug 12 2013, 9:10am
        ulmo Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Aug 12 2013, 8:36pm
            Ulmo Hamfast Gamgee Send a private message to Hamfast Gamgee Aug 13 2013, 9:31am

 
 
 

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