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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The SLIGHTLY Extended Edition
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Aug 1 2013, 4:46am

Post #176 of 371 (3108 views)
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My feelings as well [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's a WB issue most definitely.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


bborchar
Rohan


Aug 1 2013, 4:48am

Post #177 of 371 (3101 views)
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It's not even out yet.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and we've not seen anything on this Blu-ray yet. We've seen the description...but how can we possibly criticize and critique it when it's not even out yet? No one has seen the added footage, heard the commentaries or seen all of the extras. We can't judge "quality" until then...that's my point.


The Doctor: ... No! No! Nonononononono, it's... not like that. That's not what I'm like!
Amy: Then what are you like?
The Doctor: I dunno, Gandalf. Like a space Gandalf. Or that little green guy in Star Wars...


jtarkey
Rohan


Aug 1 2013, 4:55am

Post #178 of 371 (3093 views)
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This is true [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess some of us are being cautious.

I'm not impressed by what I know about it thus far. So, because of that, my expectations are lowered for the actual release.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Aug 1 2013, 4:57am

Post #179 of 371 (3104 views)
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Right [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But this has absolutely nothing to do with the "quality" of the film... this is just people upset because they convinced themselves of one thing and then got another. PJ never said "It will be 25 minutes, definitely"...he gave a rough estimate.


You're quite right. People know exactly what they're getting with the film - good or bad. So that's not at issue. The included feature content doesn't even appear to be much of an issue - there's plenty. Folks are going simply by two real, published numbers - 13 (minutes) and 1 (commentary track) and now perhaps a bungled box that doesn't match the LOTR boxes (still no real source on that rumor). They are numbers that are inferior to the LOTR EEs. Those two numbers appear more important to this thread than anything else. And THAT comes down to WB knowing, understanding and caring about their fans. If you believe 13 and 1 are insignificant numbers, then WB has a happy place at the table for you.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Aug 1 2013, 4:58am)


Inferno
Superuser / Moderator


Aug 1 2013, 4:57am

Post #180 of 371 (3114 views)
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It can always be worse [In reply to] Can't Post

See, the thing is, it may not be a perfect movie, but it could always be worse. The Rankin/Bass Hobbit, say, or this: http://ezpeleta.elfwood.com/Thranduil.2734760.html

Just because something isn't 100% perfect, or even up to your satisfaction doesn't mean that others won't enjoy it for what it is. And that's just fine if they do. There's no need to try to argue with everyone if their opinion happens to differ from yours.

Inferno.

======================
Good night, tOR.Nados. Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely delete you in the morning.
======================


(This post was edited by Inferno on Aug 1 2013, 4:58am)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Aug 1 2013, 5:16am

Post #181 of 371 (3176 views)
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Sources For "20 to 25 minutes" [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Where's the 25 minute quote? I recall hearing PJ say "15...20...25 minutes", in an AICN interview, which I took to mean that he hadn't made up his mind. Where did he definitively say 25 minutes?


Jackson said 20 to 25 minutes. It's not mass hysteria or a collective hallucination. It was at the "Q&A following a screening of The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey at Ain’t It Cool News’ Butt-Numb-A-Thon 14 in Austin, Texas" on December 8, 2012.

I think I saw a more recent video where he repeated this. I might try to find it as well.

Here are a few links to the reports:
http://www.containsmoderateperil.com/...rsion-of-the-hobbit/

http://www.hypable.com/...ed-edition-run-time/

http://badassdigest.com/...on-14-the-lucky-one/

I spent some time on this because I respect the demand for sources. I hope it's appreciated. Wink


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Aug 1 2013, 5:18am)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Aug 1 2013, 5:24am

Post #182 of 371 (3152 views)
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Sorry, I misheard Jackson. [In reply to] Can't Post

I just watched the video again, and I see that I had heard "fifteen" when he actually said "between". So it's "between 20 and 25 minutes". So I concede that. Tongue

Still, things change. PJ may have just decided to put less back in. The studio is not always the bad guy. Ridley Scott went back and forth as to whether he was going to do an extended cut of Prometheus, with the studio really wanting him to do one. In the end, he declined not to do one and said he was happy with his current cut.

Speaking as an editor, things are pretty much always in motion until you deliver a final product. You're constantly changing your mind and going back and forth on what you want to cut and what you want to leave in, or how long you want something to be. It's the nature of the beast. Wink

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Aug 1 2013, 5:32am)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Aug 1 2013, 5:39am

Post #183 of 371 (3095 views)
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Compensation [In reply to] Can't Post

Rhetorical question: Is agreeing with, repeating or paraphrasing other criticism congruent with "TORnetiquette?" Probably it is. It's just being agreeable to something with which others may disagree, and the point of view on this very much depends upon your bias. What if my motive is to provide a better, informed balance of opinion in a thread? What if I advocate for the minority regardless of my own opinion? I really don't think there's a basis to fairly judge compensation so long as it is not ad hominem.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Aug 1 2013, 5:42am)


Buchanicus
Lorien


Aug 1 2013, 5:59am

Post #184 of 371 (3126 views)
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion and their right to be disappointed... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think that a lot of the reaction to this news is over-reaction.

it's true, the packaging doesn't match the LotR EEs, which disappoints me, and there is only one commentary instead of four. But to say that this release is "sub-par" or a "rip-off" is mind boggling to me. It seems that anyone who truly thinks that doesn't buy a lot of DVDs/Blu-rays.

95% of blu ray releases (and that's being generous) have SIGNIFICANTLY less features than this set. It's very lucky to get an hour's worth of bonus features...and director commentaries, or any commentary, is never a guarantee. And I can't think of any other release that has 6 hours of making of documentaries. I can't think of any release even close to that. Maybe the Star Wars Blu ray of all six films has close to 6 hours, but I'm not certain it does...and that's 6 movies. There are a lot of people that would pay the price just for those special features, myself included.

Then the issue of "only 13 minutes". Well some people do prefer quantity over quality and seem to think that PJ "promised" at least 20 minutes and that its totally unacceptable that he changed his mind. Well... sigh. We are getting two more movies. And I think that an extended edition at all was in jeopardy when they decided to expand to a third movie. I also think it should be noted that this set is coming down the pipe while the films are still in production. Everyone involved is super busy with this project and still we are getting this release with all this material. With expanding to three movies it completely changed the entire schedule of things for the whole project. I think because of that the chances of us getting ANY commentary at all was at risk. Perhaps the "pick-up" schedule had allowed time for commentaries and things like that but now that the production grew and needed more things to be filmed the time for all that stuff fell to the wayside. Who knows, but we all saw PJs statement on the last vlog about stopping and doing even as "sizzle" reel for comic-con... and the majority of the footage had been shot the year before. He was that busy.

Also, there is absolutely no precedent that any of the special features will repeat from the theatrical bluray release (like the production vlogs), in fact it's just the opposite. NONE of the special features were repeats from the LotR TEs to the EEs.

Hey, I'm not telling anybody how to think or to not be let down or any of that. To each their own, My personal opinion is that this is still a very high quality release...better than 99% than any other bluray release out there. The LotR EEs were extremely special and are the highest quality home media release ever in my opinion. The Hobbit AUJ EE might not quite have as much, but it's nowhere near a complete misfire. And at the end of the day, if you're not satisfied, just don't buy it.

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Aug 1 2013, 7:12am

Post #185 of 371 (3054 views)
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Most extra stuff seems new... [In reply to] Can't Post

...with the exception of the dwarves featurettes. They sound like the ones that were posted on some japanese site a while ago.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Aug 1 2013, 7:20am

Post #186 of 371 (3056 views)
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Well, PJ himself at one time said 20-25 minutes... [In reply to] Can't Post

Can you blame us now for being disappointed? 13 minutes is well short of 20.


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Aug 1 2013, 7:20am)


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Aug 1 2013, 7:46am

Post #187 of 371 (3065 views)
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Figurines... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, if you check out the thread on the giftset announced in Germany you will see that a Collector's edition does look to be coming our way with a statue of 'Riddles'...

TheHutt even posted an image of the set from the Henneth-Annun.ru site:



There's also a Japanese site that shows a DVD set with a cover far more reminiscent of the LotR sets:




"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Aug 1 2013, 7:54am)


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 1 2013, 7:51am

Post #188 of 371 (3025 views)
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Isn't it possible also.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and if you're an editor you would know this - I'm only guessing... Isn't it possible that in re-editing the film to fit the new scenes in they might actually have altered or removed some existing scenes, so that the apparent change in the length of the film doesn't tell the whole story?

I don't know. I'm just crossing fingers that the scene of Bilbo's childhood and some of the other bits they mentioned in the Empire article are there - and if they are, then I'm not going to be timing them while I'm watching. 13 minutes or 30 minutes - if they're all there, then I'm happy.

And as for the 9 hours of extra material, I for one am very impressed, and looking forward to seeing it. Have to confess that the commentaries don't bother me so much. I have tried to watch them but find they frustrate me because they prevent me from getting lost in the film. I'd rather pick up that information from the documentaries.


sharku
Rivendell

Aug 1 2013, 7:51am

Post #189 of 371 (3030 views)
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"Fewer", not "less" [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
....95% of blu ray releases (and that's being generous) have SIGNIFICANTLY less features than this set.


Correctly, it's "fewer" features. The number of features is a discrete variable, not a continuous one. As a Tolkien fan, one ought to appreciate and demonstrate correct grammar.


sharku
Rivendell

Aug 1 2013, 7:54am

Post #190 of 371 (3045 views)
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Oh [In reply to] Can't Post

The irony of my post above, is that I was going to say that this whole thread is one large example of a first-world problem. Oh the luxury of being able to decry the lack of extended footage, multiple commentaries and a nice box when food is scarce and war ravages the land.


Joe20
Lorien

Aug 1 2013, 8:40am

Post #191 of 371 (2994 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://youtu.be/wBOCHPCYnDw?t=2m10s

Tongue I couldn't resist.


sharku
Rivendell

Aug 1 2013, 9:42am

Post #192 of 371 (2950 views)
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Fried! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


Ahhh - no fewer a man than Stephen Fry! That loveable international treasure of comedy and joie de vivre, not to mention of course, the mayor of a certain fictional squalid town by the lake.

There are far too less of his rambunctious ilk! :)


(This post was edited by sharku on Aug 1 2013, 9:42am)


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Aug 1 2013, 9:45am

Post #193 of 371 (2965 views)
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. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Well, if you check out the thread on the giftset announced in Germany you will see that a Collector's edition does look to be coming our way with a statue of 'Riddles'...

TheHutt even posted an image of the set from the Henneth-Annun.ru site:



There's also a Japanese site that shows a DVD set with a cover far more reminiscent of the LotR sets:






Looks great to me. I'm pretty excited to sit that Hobbit DVD set next to my LoTR ones.



People have got to get past this runtime thing. The overreaction to mere number of minutes is staggering.

They took a small book and some appendices plots and planned to give us two films. Then they changed their minds and gave three films. But in stretching that small story into three films, they needed most of what could have become Extended Edition footage. That is simply the price we had to pay to get three films.

So we only get 13 minutes of extended edition footage for AUJ. So what? Big whoop. We are getting THREE MOVIES instead of two.

They are giving us far more than any one else would have ever tried to give us, by giving us three movies. Yet people still want to complain because they aren't getting as many minutes as they think they deserve? What exactly is it you want to see further stretched out? Do you need to see Bilbo brush the hair on his feet for 15 minutes?


jtarkey
Rohan


Aug 1 2013, 9:46am

Post #194 of 371 (2964 views)
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I like to believe I'm in this position for a reason [In reply to] Can't Post

If you think about life enough, there's always that "starving children dilemma".

At this point, I just chalk it up to Karma, and the circle of life. If you think about it, we're all in the same place. We are the Big Bang. We tend to think of ourselves as separate and lonely. Quite the opposite. The Universe is still beginning, and we are all The Big Bang in constant progression...

I can't describe the ultimate mystery with words any more than I could drink the oceans with a fork...

Philosophy hour...over. Continue...

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Elenorflower
Gondor


Aug 1 2013, 9:49am

Post #195 of 371 (2955 views)
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I didnt buy it. So keep your judgmental comments to yourself. [In reply to] Can't Post

''People complaining about getting "sucked into paying for 2 versions" are silly. WB and PJ didn't point a gun to your head and force you to buy it. You bought it because you are a good consumer and blindly bought an inferior product knowing that an improved version would be released a few months later. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Have some self control; or if you really cannot help but watch the movie again, rent it or torrent it or find another way to see it that doesn't involve you paying to own the same movie on DVD twice''.


I am not discussing MYSELF, but the thousands of people who rushed out to buy the dvd as soon as it was released. There ARE less than savvy people who DO get hoodwinked by marketing, namely children. Its not as if in these days of financial crisis that folks have a lot of money to throw away. This is a moral question, if you havent yet figured it out. The studios are milking unsophisticated buyers. People that didnt buy the theatrical version because they were waiting for the EE are also a bit peeved. I dont intend to buy either, on principle. so before you accuse someone get your facts straight.


Arannir
Valinor


Aug 1 2013, 10:53am

Post #196 of 371 (2959 views)
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Very pleased. [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not need the EE to be completely bloaded in the end. Rather have a version that still flows nicely as a movie.

Plus the main point for me regarding the EE is PJ & Co's commentary and the extras.

Cannot see the ripp-off/lying/ whatever hyperbole going on here, but whatever. I am a much happier Tolkien and movie fan sine I stay away from certain areas ;)



“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Aug 1 2013, 11:53am

Post #197 of 371 (2917 views)
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No, not particularly [In reply to] Can't Post

The LOTR SEEs and PJ with his statement (20-25 minutes) set a certain expectation in terms of the length. It is not met, it's as simple as that.

What i would want? More character moments, more team banter, stuff like that. I find Bilbo not being present enough after they go on the journey for example. We'll probably get some of that in the 13 minutes (if the Rivendel scene is anything to go by) but 13 is not really that much to drastically enhance the movie.

Just to be clear, i'm not like certain other people, shouting ripoff and whatnot. I'm still looking forward to the SEE.


(This post was edited by dernwyn on Aug 1 2013, 4:13pm)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Aug 1 2013, 12:26pm

Post #198 of 371 (2895 views)
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exqueeze me!.. shouting? [In reply to] Can't Post

a lady NEVER shouts, she just gets a bit huffy.

look at it this way. Why have two versions when the two versions are so very similar? its not as if 13 minutes is going to revolutionize your viewing, or change the story dramatically. As a sign of goodwill they could have released just the EE, but they didnt as they are banking on fans forking out TWICE. As to the added bonus things thats just padding to sweeten the pill. Most of it we probably got in all the blogs and vlogs before. ergo its a rip off.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Aug 1 2013, 12:35pm

Post #199 of 371 (2900 views)
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The normal version [In reply to] Can't Post

 is for "normal" people, the SEE for the fans. If they had released just one version everyone would have had to pay more, even if you just want the theatrical cut and don't watch extras.


(This post was edited by Altaira on Aug 2 2013, 2:48pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 1 2013, 1:07pm

Post #200 of 371 (2847 views)
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Well..... [In reply to] Can't Post

Theatrical versions always come out on DVD/Blu-ray. Always.

Extended versions not so much. Mostly the best you can expect is a few deleted scenes tagged on to the main film under the heading 'bonus'. With some production stills and a short 'Making of...'

And for the Hobbit they've produced a theatrical version, as standard. Just to play fair they made it clear up front that there would be an extended version in due course - that way no one needed to be caught out buying two versions inadvertently. If they wanted the extended, they could wait.

But for those who want it there will be an extended version. New scenes properly edited into the film. A whole 9 hours - 9 hours - of bonus material. How you work out that 'most of it' will be stuff from the vlogs baffles me. We've had how many v-logs? Eleven? Twelve? Ten minutes each. If they included them complete it would barely scratch the surface of 9 hours, but my betting is that they won't include them at all. No way is all that material padding. It's a continuation of the Appendix sections of the LotR extended editions - made explicit by numbering the sections 7 and 8, after the 6 that have gone before on the previous films. If you don't enjoy those sections, fine, but lots of people do.

Nobody is being ripped off. Nobody has to buy. The new versions will be on sale for those who want them, with a description of the contents so that would-be buyers know what they're getting. If you don't want it, don't buy it - simples!

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