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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I got some 411 today on the next 2 Hobbit films
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mikeybobaggins
The Shire

Jul 29 2013, 12:04am

Post #1 of 26 (2842 views)
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I got some 411 today on the next 2 Hobbit films Can't Post

I have a best friend working on the hobbit films. He said today that these next hobbit films have far surpassed expectations and that these next 2 films are very thrilling and suspenseful and dark. He also told me the new music for the films is very well done.

I thought the first film was good, my only complaint was the different feeling from LOTR to The Hobbit films. These new hobbit movies seemed VIDEO GAME ish whereas the older LOTR films had a feeling like it actually happened in ancient times. Miss that! :( It's been hard for me to adjust with that. I told him about how I felt and he said that the next two films will have the same photography feel as the first. :( BUT, will be a lot darker and will have you on the edge of the seat from start to finish.

I miss my ancient "braveheart" feel with these newer middle earth films. He told me I would be very pleased with the trilogy as a whole one day. I still love the movies, just miss the feel.


(This post was edited by mikeybobaggins on Jul 29 2013, 12:07am)


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Jul 29 2013, 12:13am

Post #2 of 26 (1369 views)
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Ancient Times [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved the feel of LOTR. It really did have that feeling that it happened in ancient times. Just watched The Two Towers this past weekend. I too miss that ancient feel. As much as I love The Hobbit: AUJ, LOTR is my favorite.


Elizabeth
Valinor


Jul 29 2013, 12:27am

Post #3 of 26 (1257 views)
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Well, the book had a lighter tone, too. [In reply to] Can't Post

And it was much more of a children's tale in all respects, in contrast to the more realistic style of LotR, so the change you note in the movies is ok. And the book does turn darker towards the end, so that's appropriate, too.








AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 29 2013, 2:20am

Post #4 of 26 (1166 views)
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With the exception of some offenses of cannonical misrepresentation and missed opportunities, I loved each for what they were. [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved Rings for what it was, and Hobbit for what it is. Two very different styles of story, with a number of similar traits and persons. One is an Epic. The other is a FairyTale.

I loved the majesty and melancholy wonder of Rings, but the cozy, more charming wonder of The Hobbit was no less pleasing to me.

While many mistakes were made, particularly from the perspective of what the novels offered in material and what could have been, all of the movies thus far have been good.

In Reply To
I have a best friend working on the hobbit films. He said today that these next hobbit films have far surpassed expectations and that these next 2 films are very thrilling and suspenseful and dark. He also told me the new music for the films is very well done.

I thought the first film was good, my only complaint was the different feeling from LOTR to The Hobbit films. These new hobbit movies seemed VIDEO GAME ish whereas the older LOTR films had a feeling like it actually happened in ancient times. Miss that! :( It's been hard for me to adjust with that. I told him about how I felt and he said that the next two films will have the same photography feel as the first. :( BUT, will be a lot darker and will have you on the edge of the seat from start to finish.

I miss my ancient "braveheart" feel with these newer middle earth films. He told me I would be very pleased with the trilogy as a whole one day. I still love the movies, just miss the feel.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jul 29 2013, 2:56am

Post #5 of 26 (1133 views)
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I've said it before [In reply to] Can't Post

I think he will be proven right.

AUJ got "nerfed" by the expansion/split to 3 films and the real meat and potatoes will be in the next 2 films.
I would agree they will get better and when all 3 are released and watched as a whole the total affect will be quite good.

Also, LOTR was broken down into 3 books and as such lended itself better to one movie per book.
The Hobbit is a bit tricksier as it is essentially 1 book being rendered into 3, with starting and stopping points being difficult to manipulate.

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.



Shagrat
Gondor

Jul 29 2013, 8:04am

Post #6 of 26 (1034 views)
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Music? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not saying your lying but it's very unlikely he'd have heard much of that at this stage, given that Shore is probably still working on much of it.


AshNazg
Rohan


Jul 29 2013, 11:12am

Post #7 of 26 (959 views)
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Not sure he's lying. Maybe his friend is a little [In reply to] Can't Post

I also have a friend working on the films and yesterday got some info. Because they've wrapped they can be more open with information so it makes sense that this friend would want to spill a few beans.

I've heard similar things, but when you're working on a film it's hard not to get hyped about it. I've heard that it's going to exceed LotR and will be really fun and really dark. I won't hold my breath though.

More excitingly one of the guys I've spoken to (friend of the friend) said that PJ is really excited about the Extended Cut of AUJ. I asked why they haven't been making much of a big deal about it recently and he made an interesting point -

He said that if they started advertising how great the Extended Cut is too early, then it would damage the sales of the Theatrical Cut. So they have to downplay it as much as possible until November. Mentioning it only when asked directly by the media.


(This post was edited by AshNazg on Jul 29 2013, 11:14am)


triptrap
Lorien

Jul 29 2013, 12:46pm

Post #8 of 26 (823 views)
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i feel you OP [In reply to] Can't Post

all in all i felt AUJ was a big let down, though i am yet to give it another try outside of the cinema (that will happen this evening, and i'm exited wheather it may change my opinion). I think the first movie made the mistake of trying to combine the fairytale-style and the mood of the former trilogy in the wrong ways and places: adding too much bloated action with too much cgi so that there was little to no sense of danger, whereas also diminishing the lighter and more natural, though very adventurely tone that the book had.

in terms of photography style as you call it: i guess i understand why they chose to make everything a bit brigther and less sober. i think it is totally legit for that story. the problem is that it works in some places ( natural environments, middle-earth landscape shots, bag end etc.) whereas in others it really sucked, especially in all the fight scenes with far too many CGI (which was all over the movie) it made everything seem even more cartoonish and bad. Had they just kept everything more natural and used more guys in prosthetics instead of cgi etc. i think it could have worked way better.

i think the first movie really suffered from the 3-movie-split. had it been only 2 movies we would have gone from the light shire, through the adventure with the trolls, to the goblin caves and pinecone-battle into dark and gloomy mirkwood which would have made for a far better arc in terms of tension and darkness. that way there also wouldn't have been that much time for stupid nonsense action: warg chase which was absolutely terrible and rollercoster goblin town (i hated the approach that they took to goblin town from the start. unrealistic wooden brigde city instead of dark goblin tunnel labyrinth. but that is another story)

so, your post really gave me hope that the next 2 will be more consistent in tone within themselves and will be more serious


nhui06
Rivendell

Jul 29 2013, 4:16pm

Post #9 of 26 (681 views)
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Not sure [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry to doubt, but how will your friend know what the film will be like if they just finished shooting? Still tons of work to do in terms of editing and getting the sound and music, and then PJ will have to cut the film and stuff. Very hard to judge something when it is not even near finished.


jtarkey
Rohan


Jul 29 2013, 4:47pm

Post #10 of 26 (692 views)
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I don't think the visual aesthetic of these films was chosen to suit the lighter tone at all... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it was chosen simply to push the envelope of technology.

The "ancient" and filmic style of LOTR could have easily been preserved in The Hobbit. All they had to do was up the color palette and saturate things a bit more if they wanted a visual style the truly suits the source material.

Instead they went RED, Digital, 48fps. And apparently PJ learned to "trust the studio" a little more this time around...err...make that A LOT more.

AUJ still looks really strange to me visually, and I don't think it's a visual aesthetic that does the source material, or the previous films any favors.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Escapist
Gondor


Jul 29 2013, 4:53pm

Post #11 of 26 (685 views)
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We know from the vlogs that technology was a big consideration. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I am completely certain that it wasn't the only consideration. There was continuity with LotR to consider (within limits) as well as a "whimsical" feeling at play.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 29 2013, 8:16pm

Post #12 of 26 (608 views)
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I dont follow [In reply to] Can't Post

Choosing Red, digital sharpness, 48 fps, 3D style instead of a planned 2D Film projection shot on film, is not sticking to continuity with the previous trilogy.

On the contrary, fairy tales such as Legend shot on film have an aesthetic, atmosphere and feel that is far more whimsical than auj, imo.

I feel the incrredibly digital, 3D, ultra sharp aesthetic of the hobbit is very unnapealing to me , personally, as far as my tastes go, is inconsistent with the previous trilogy wich contradicts jackson's goal of "feeling as if the two trilogies belong together" , and on another level, as far as making Middle Erath look realistic, beautifull, historical, ancient and fairytalish...

These qualities could have been achieved if the choices had been more mature and conservative and prudent, rather than gimmicky with 3D, television inspired 48 fps, and jarring, exposing sharpness...

And other factors which we ve all mentioned...

My slim hope for DOS is that with more time , they can improve the look of the film so we dont have the same amateur digital hour feel again...

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


angelclaw
Bree

Jul 30 2013, 3:02am

Post #13 of 26 (491 views)
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Just because you can, doesn't mean you should [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree, the overall look of AUJ is very little like LOTR. Like others have mentioned it has the look of a cut scene in a video game most of the time, except for scenes like Bag End where the sets are real and the CGI is kept to a minimum (although I still thought some of the flying plates looked incredibly fake). But other times it's just all wrong, there's too much color saturation and too much light and too many fast, sporadic cuts that make the action feel like a jumbled cartoony mess.

I don't think digital is all to blame, either, it's just the choices that were made, as you mention. Look at Zodiac, which was also shot digitally but had little or no CGI, and tell me that's not a beautiful film! I think something much closer to the look of the LOTR films was easily possible with this medium, Jackson just went too far trying to make it... I don't even know what he was trying to make it, actually. I just really hope he learns from his mistakes on DoS and TABA. I've come to mostly like AUJ after many, many viewings, but it's nowhere near the "epic cinema" feel of LOTR, which is a shame because I think it easily could have been.

Also, did you roll that "r" on "incrredibly digital" on purpose, or was that just a fortunate typo? Because I totally read that in Radagast's voice Laugh


triptrap
Lorien

Jul 30 2013, 8:14am

Post #14 of 26 (420 views)
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i agree angelclaw [In reply to] Can't Post

i had my dvd-view last evening and jesus, after the trolls it just gets random and messed up. from then on it had nearly nothing in common with the book, not even in tone, and was a complete cgi mess.
and why oh why did he have to do the warg chase. not only looked radagast fake but the landscape sequence as well. they're in a forest, then suddenly they're in rohan with not a single tree anywhere and then again they're on some plains in front of the misty mountains with diffuse tree vegetation. oh right, then they go underground and end up in rivendell. seriously, there is no realism and logic to this.

and that is just poor set-up of scenes and has nothing to do with the look, which actually makes it all even less believable


jtarkey
Rohan


Jul 30 2013, 10:21am

Post #15 of 26 (433 views)
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I would also like to add... [In reply to] Can't Post

How does a video gameish visual aesthetic reflect a lighter tone?

IMO, the proper representation of a "lighter tone" was achieved perfectly in the Good Morning sequence of AUJ.

In short, the tone could have been better exemplified had it relied on witty, Tolkien-esque dialogue (such as in this scene).

The look and feel of Middle Earth was established beautifully in LOTR. Why change something so important?

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Jul 30 2013, 1:22pm

Post #16 of 26 (379 views)
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I'm going to disagree with you to agree with you. [In reply to] Can't Post

While i agree with everything you say concerning AUJ, what you said about Zodiac isn't quite right. It is a beautiful film, and it was shot digitally, but i think you'd be surprised at how much cgi was in the film. There were over 200 digital effects shots-- the entire sequence when the cab driver was killed was shot on a set with digital extensions, most of the arial shots of the Bay Area were created digitally, and tons of other effects (period details, vehicles, blood) were added digitally. But all this goes to serve your larger point-- that digital photography and effects are only tools, and it's the choices you make in your use of these tools that determine the look of the final product. Zodiac is a beautiful film, and the cgi doesn't detract from this because it was used sparingly and subtly, something Jackson and co. seem to have completely lost interest in.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should, indeed.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Jul 30 2013, 1:32pm)


burgahobbit
Rohan


Jul 30 2013, 5:19pm

Post #17 of 26 (350 views)
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Age of Dragons [In reply to] Can't Post

The song heard in the trailer is supposedly part of the soundtrack for DOS. It was first speculated here and then kind of confirmed when their was a whole new variation of it at the end of the vlog 11 here.

It's kind of like when we heard "Misty Mountains" in the first trailer in 2011. So it seems that the filmmakers give a glimpse of the music a year or a half a year before the film with the trailers. Different but cool!

"I don't mean to be blunt but I felt I had to speak my mind, I'm sorry." - Bilbo Baggins.
"Apology accepted." - Balin.


"You don't really suppose do you that all your adventures and escapes were managed by mere luck? Just for your sole benefit?"
"There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. In which case you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought." - Gandalf the Grey, from The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 30 2013, 8:45pm

Post #18 of 26 (294 views)
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Good catch [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess that answers the question I asked here. Now that I listen to the two together, I concur that they are the same, and I agree that could mean they are part of the actual DoS soundtrack.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Jul 30 2013, 8:50pm)


Skaan
Lorien


Jul 30 2013, 8:51pm

Post #19 of 26 (293 views)
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It's not from the soundtrack [In reply to] Can't Post

The music is made by a company called Audiomachine. They provide music for all kinds of trailers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZUUxrSzrAo

Remember that the second trailer for AUJ didn't use any official AUJ music either. It also used trailer music which was totally unrelated to the official soundtrack.


(This post was edited by Skaan on Jul 30 2013, 8:53pm)


burgahobbit
Rohan


Jul 31 2013, 12:16am

Post #20 of 26 (257 views)
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It *is* from the soundtrack [In reply to] Can't Post

<insert Tauriel's voice for subject line>

The way I see it is that it could really be from the soundtrack even though it was composed by audiomachine. You see 'Misty Mountains' wasn't composed by Howard Shore either, it was composed by Plan 9 and Howard adapted it many different times for the soundtrack. Maybe Howard Shore liked the head start he got with AUJ and since he's so overloaded with work now that there's three films he asked for someone else to come up with a theme for DoS. Or maybe audiomachine just adapted Shore's original theme so that it would fit with the trailer. (I don't know if that's a possibility). Whatever the case, the music from the second AUJ trailer was never used in a vlog, and especially wasn't given a completely new variation just for a video blog.

"I don't mean to be blunt but I felt I had to speak my mind, I'm sorry." - Bilbo Baggins.
"Apology accepted." - Balin.


Skaan
Lorien


Jul 31 2013, 11:02am

Post #21 of 26 (187 views)
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If i remember right [In reply to] Can't Post

The music of the second AUJ trailer WAS used in the DoS sneak peek (towards the ending)


Shagrat
Gondor

Jul 31 2013, 11:25am

Post #22 of 26 (195 views)
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It won't be in the soundtrack [In reply to] Can't Post

And if it is I will be mortified. The vlog probably just used an early variation that AudioMachine came up with.

The difference with the first trailer was that Plan 9 and Howard Shore are active participants in the scoring process, with Shore utilizing their Misty Mountains composition and making it his own. Think of this more like the AUJ theatrical trailer, which featured some other soulless manufactured made-for-trailers music.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Jul 31 2013, 11:28am)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 31 2013, 3:42pm

Post #23 of 26 (172 views)
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Cut scene in a video game indeed, and or [In reply to] Can't Post

a sequence of set like scenes that look like .....SETS!

Rocky mountainous Landscapes with an insufferably bad depth of field, rather than feeling like part of a largely natural, historical, painting. How i would describe the look and feel of Lotr vs TH.


"there's too much color saturation and too much light and too many fast, sporadic cuts that make the action feel like a jumbled cartoony mess. "

Exactly, precisely what happens after they begin the journey.... Those warg, rivendell, goblin town, firing trees scenes, ughk...i dislike the look so much, im immediately put off...

I disagree in that i also lay some blame on Red...to me, the red picture has too much of a plastic, digital exagerrated sharp look and feel...ive seen quite a few films shot on red and i think i i can almost ,most of the time ,recognize its particular look, after a few seconds...

However, it wouldnt be so bad as you say had the filmmaking choices been different : agreed on zodiac, GOT is epic and its fantasy, visually, it looks great becaus the choices from the directors and cinematographers are the exact opposite of those taken from jackson and his crew...Natural lights, darkness and shadowss, real locations, lush landscapes, minimum, subtle cgi....TH is a green screen gloryfest, it couldnt look any different....

I watched the 13th warrior the other day i realized the Wendol fight and labyrintic escape through the dark tunnels is more akin to what tolkien wrote of those moments than what jackson gave us.

"I don't even know what he was trying to make it" I think he just likes these new toys and its results and as he says, cinema has to become more uncinematic, gimmicky and video game like to get those 14 olds infatuated with video games and ipads, back in the theatre!Crazy


Funny story : days ago i wanted to watch the hobbit's logo...so i watched it...then i felt i might as well see the prologue....and as i was on the good morning scene, might as well just stick for the party! So i watched it and enjoyed those first 40 minutes...once Azog and radaghast arrive i lose interest ...

And yes, i might have pushed that rrrrrr in "incredible" just cause i love spekaing like rrrradagast Wink

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


angelclaw
Bree

Aug 2 2013, 3:01am

Post #24 of 26 (129 views)
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"Radaghast" [In reply to] Can't Post

I was aghast, too! Your hilariously fortuitous typos are killing me Laugh

I'm not aware of having seen any other films made with the RED, but we have plenty of proof that digital can look good if used correctly. However when they were talking about how they had to oversaturate all the colors it was a big clue as to why things look so... off. I hate when films eschew natural lighting and color for an oversaturated look that seems is really only there to try to disguise the overuse of CGI, and that's exactly what AUJ looks like to me.

Is this really what 14 year olds like? When I was 14 all we had were the books and a couple of cheesy cartoons... and our own imaginations...


burgahobbit
Rohan


Aug 2 2013, 4:53pm

Post #25 of 26 (105 views)
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Okay I guess you're probably right [In reply to] Can't Post

But I wouldn't half mind if they did use it, especially the second variation in the vlog. Seems to fit the elves of Mirkwood somehow.

"I don't mean to be blunt but I felt I had to speak my mind, I'm sorry." - Bilbo Baggins.
"Apology accepted." - Balin.

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