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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:


Jul 26 2013, 4:45am

Post #1 of 9 (1068 views)
Necromancer... Can't Post

Because the Dol Guldur plot excludes Bilbo, who conceivably is the authority
of the narrative which naturally involves his character, might the necromancer be
given the privilege of a monologue? We might for a short while imbibe the story
through his perspective. It could serve as a segue into the White Council's investigation and
assault on DG. For instance, the necromancer could narrate the motion of events,
forseeing the WC's suspicions and eventual agency. He could maybe contribute that
menacing, condescending air toward Gandalf and his naive friends -- how they will
think themselves as victors in driving him away from DG. Alas, he knows too well,
that his retreat is a mere feign. He will rebuild in Mordor and release his ire on the Free
Peoples from there. DG will not have yielded the extent of events moving against them.
Do you think the Necromancer could assume the narrative perspective to open the
WC's attack on DG? If so, would it be characteristic of the necromancer to assume
a self-righteous tone in a potential monologue? Thoughts?

By monologue, I don't imply that the necromancer would give a character speech in a scene.
It would imagine it more like a whispering narration to dark imagery with crouching, vague forms
and moving dark essences moving in the night. The rustle of dark reeds screeching in the wind against the eerie silence.
The Necromancer musing in the darkness of his dwelling...

(This post was edited by Dwarvenfury on Jul 26 2013, 4:53am)


Jul 26 2013, 6:04am

Post #2 of 9 (450 views)
. [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you mean a soliloquy?

Nah, I don't think that is going to happen.

Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Jul 26 2013, 9:54am

Post #3 of 9 (399 views)
Not too much [In reply to] Can't Post

Saying that he will retreat to Mordor, that would tie the thing too much to the Lotr for my liking. I would like the Hobbit to stand on it's own. Maybe he can say something like he doubts that the White Council will have the courage to stand up to him and mocking Saruman?

Fredeghar Wayfarer

Jul 26 2013, 11:50pm

Post #4 of 9 (263 views)
Hopefully not [In reply to] Can't Post

The essence of the Necromancer/Sauron character is that he's a mostly unseen, malevolent presence. He's evil personified. If you show too much of him or give him lots of dialogue, you lose that sense of hidden menace and risk turning him into a cliched super-villain.

Plus, it would go against Tolkien's intention. In the books, you never see him at all. In the LOTR movies, the longest dialogue he had was "I see you" and "Build me an army worthy of Mordor." To have him narrating a scene in The Hobbit, even just as a mocking whisper, wouldn't feel right, in my opinion.


Jul 27 2013, 12:15am

Post #5 of 9 (272 views)
Interesting. [In reply to] Can't Post

It would probably be best to avoid a necromancer narration for the reasons you mentioned.
It would be disproportionate to Sauron in Lord of the RIngs and could overwhelm The Hobbit
and stray from the canon. I am wondering if there might be a way to transition the DG plot
in a way to magnify the importance of the White Council's endeavors and the gravity of their
situation. As the plot progresses through Gandalf's investigations toward the actual assault
on the keep, might the sense of danger seem all too distant? We hear the council speak to
the dangers and implications of the necromancer's true identity, but will we ever grasp the
consequences of this lurking malignancy? Steeped in the malicious intrigues of the necromancer
could be an interesting experience in that it relieves the framework of martyr Gandalf in a vacuum.
Does this make sense?

I like your points and think it probably best to stay clear of a necromancer narration. It could be
corny and unbalanced to Lord of the Rings. I wonder though if there might be a subtle twist in presentation
to keep the story renewed on the path toward its relative inexorable conclusion. Thoughts?

(This post was edited by Dwarvenfury on Jul 27 2013, 12:17am)

Tol Eressea

Jul 27 2013, 5:13pm

Post #6 of 9 (214 views)
I agree that's the way it should be... [In reply to] Can't Post

To have him narrating a scene in The Hobbit, even just as a mocking whisper, wouldn't feel right, in my opinion.

...but the fact that a well-known actor like Benedict Cumberbatch was cast in the role tells me that there will probably be a decent amount of dialogue.


Jul 28 2013, 8:06am

Post #7 of 9 (171 views)
. [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To

To have him narrating a scene in The Hobbit, even just as a mocking whisper, wouldn't feel right, in my opinion.

...but the fact that a well-known actor like Benedict Cumberbatch was cast in the role tells me that there will probably be a decent amount of dialogue.

I wouldn't bet on that.

You'll see. 99% of Cumberbatch's lines will come as Smaug. All you are getting from the Necromancer is a powerful shadow and some hoarse whispers.

Tol Eressea

Jul 28 2013, 7:16pm

Post #8 of 9 (161 views)
Personally the less of the Necromancer the better [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think there needs to be any dialogue from the Necromancer other than lines similar to what we got in LOTR. Simple, short, and vague. I don't think we need any of his fair form, or back story. The Hobbit is about Bilbo and his journey, I understand about Jackson making Thorin a larger character but the Necromancer was 2 sentences in the book, and there really is no need to expand the character to the point of him being anything more than just a very minor character. Cumberbatch's main role will be Smaug and Hopefully if the reports are true the necromancer will be nothing more than a shadowy figure

Fredeghar Wayfarer

Jul 28 2013, 11:19pm

Post #9 of 9 (183 views)
Reusing actors [In reply to] Can't Post

The fact that they cast Benedict Cumberbatch as the Necromancer doesn't necessarily indicate that the role is expanded or that he'll have a lot of dialogue. It could be a case of reusing actors. Several of the dwarf actors also played the trolls. In LOTR, Sala Baker played Sauron and various orcs and Andy Serkis was the voice of a Nazgul in addition to being Gollum. It could be that they needed someone to make scary whispering noises as the Necromancer and chose to use someone already on-set instead of casting someone specifically for that purpose.


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