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Ufthak was right
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orcbane
Gondor


Dec 31 2007, 12:14am

Post #1 of 87 (1336 views)
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Ufthak was right Can't Post

Between the PJ worship & inane air-posts some of you folks are driving me crazy. Will you get a hold of yourselves & stop embarassing Tolkien fans worldwide. Maybe this was a good forum once, maybe it could be so again, but it mostly feels like The First Internet Congregation of Peter Jackson, and a closed society of superstitious old cronys.

The Hobbit's a JRR Tolkien Book, but the film is a blank slate. I snap my finger at license's. Your nearsightedness makes you very poor guardians of this treasure. Forgot that role, did you ?


squire
Half-elven


Dec 31 2007, 12:29am

Post #2 of 87 (928 views)
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But how do you really feel? [In reply to] Can't Post

You should have been here during the LotR movies release dates. I missed the first year, but evidently one could not scroll down the screen because there were too many "Legolas is sooooo KOOL" posts in the way. I do remember a time on Movie by the time of the third film, when there was virtual blood shed over whether Jackson had butchered the book, or merely mutilated it, or improved on it. Back in the day, one went to the "Feedback" board first thing each day, to see who had been screaming at whom and then complaining to the Admins about it. Have you ever been banned from TORn by the Admins? Me neither. But some people have.

Many people, banned or not, have left the TORn boards in the past few years, and set up their own discussion boards because, you may be surprised, it was too civil a discussion board for their tastes.

In some ways, this Hobbit mania is repeating those earlier days on TORn of media madness and Jackson loving/hating. If another director takes on The Hobbit, as seems likely, there will probably be some major hissy fits, cat fights, and hastily smothered flame wars in the months and years to come, as to whether he/she will do (or has done) a better job than Jackson.

We have a long ride ahead of us, in other words. A journey There and Back Again, if you take my meaning. I hope you will be with us for it - your opinions are always informed and interesting. Disclaimer: I am neither superstitious nor a crony; I am, however, old. No offense taken, of course.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


Woodyend
Gondor


Dec 31 2007, 12:32am

Post #3 of 87 (811 views)
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Okay I’m new, who is Ufthak and what is s(he) right about?/ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!


diedye
Grey Havens


Dec 31 2007, 1:38am

Post #4 of 87 (832 views)
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Okaaaaaaaaay.... [In reply to] Can't Post

*sniffs orcbane's eggnog*

Ugh...

... didn't I tell you NOT to touch that stuff after Gollum spiked it last week?!!!

*tsk tsk*

*brings out cold compresses*

There, there, dear... here have a seat.... I saved this bean bag just for you... don't worry... this, too, shall pass.

*makes mental note to chuck leftover eggnog down Ufthie's windpipe*



Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Dec 31 2007, 2:46am

Post #5 of 87 (828 views)
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Actually, I think it was "KEWL"... [In reply to] Can't Post

but trying to forget all the "Orly is HAWT!" posts may be responsible for confusion on my part. ;)


Penthe
Gondor


Dec 31 2007, 2:50am

Post #6 of 87 (815 views)
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How can he be both kewl and hawt? [In reply to] Can't Post

But I'm just chuckling at listening to poor old Squire - now that he's had to retire to the old rocking chair on the porch he's got plenty of time to tell his tales about the old days.

Poor, old, old, old Squire. *smirks* Old.

I quite like cheese, you know.


orcbane
Gondor


Dec 31 2007, 3:03am

Post #7 of 87 (857 views)
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No, not banned before, [In reply to] Can't Post

here, or anywhere else. But I don't think you could be, or should be, banned just for challenging something. Doing so without reason, repeatedly, could be another story. I do regret naming poor Ufthak though. He will probably be glaring.

I did not join any forum until after the movies, and missed the period you speak of. A good thing apparently. Elsewhere I have heard it described in the same way.

Nothing wrong with age, unless you are there, or civility, perish the thought. But to that I would also say be careful not to lose straightforward talk, and self depreciating humor, because someone chooses to be offended. I am a joke, you are a joke, we all are jokes alike.

The closed ranks are I think a true condition here. Others can't get in unless they open up some.

The Jackson partizanship....actually reminds me of a political party. The focus is wrong. Isn't it , or wasn't the original goal to get the best film treatment of Tolkien possible, be it with Jackson, or without Jackson ?

I didn't really mean the inane air-posts part. That was rhetorical flurish, or a lie, if you prefer. But yes I can see them coming. I know some think Frodo is in the Hobbit, and some may well think The Lord of the Rings was written by Peter Jackson. But I reserve the right to say they are a nincompoop, civily. Squire, sometimes I think that people do not realize that forums are one of the few places you can actually say what you think. Civily.


squire
Half-elven


Dec 31 2007, 3:07am

Post #8 of 87 (777 views)
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*Whaps cane on day room floor, glares at Pen, demands extra cookie*/ [In reply to] Can't Post

 



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 31 2007, 4:26am

Post #9 of 87 (794 views)
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What, you mean having Bowie play Thranduil? [In reply to] Can't Post

As Ufthie suggested here. Not a bad choice, really.

Haven't seen Ufthak around lately, though, as he's been busy with his website, so I'm not sure what King's messengers licenses you're snapping your fingers at...Wink

But if we're to be members of the Deplorable Cultus, then I say, let's be deplorable all the way!

*pushes walker aside, sits back down in rocking chair next to squire, wipes off thick-lensed glasses, adjusts hearing aid* Now what were you saying, sonny?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 31 2007, 6:20am

Post #10 of 87 (907 views)
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There is always... [In reply to] Can't Post

an adjustment period whenever an event brings a wave of new people to the board. And the adjustment has to work on both sides.

Each new major event brings us a wave of new people. They charge in with a fire under them, eager to find like minds and expecting to find others thinking the same way. They're usually somewhat taken aback to find that others don't agree and in fact don't care about the same things they do, or were finished arguing those points years ago and have boiled down their answers to a shorthand statement that doesn't always seem like an answer. And newbies can seem blissfully unaware that these boards did not come into existence at the moment they found them.

For the old-timers, a wave of newbies feels like a group of people have charged in to the room where they were talking and started to rearrange the furniture and criticize the decor, while expecting the regulars to receive them and their absolute pronouncements with cries of joy. Newbies can sometimes come across as demanding, arrogant and rude.

For the newbies, it can feel like walking in to an exclusive private club, with hidebound traditions and a party line. We can come off as snobbish, apathetic, cliquish and set in our ways.

Neither first impression is really accurate.

Most of us here either loved the movies, or have made our peace with them. We've done our intense arguing and settled our major positions long ago (years in some cases), agreeing to disagree where necessary. I can see how it can seem like a closed society. That's unfortunate, as we have always welcomed new people and new ideas. We just don't like being told that we're not really fans because we liked something someone else didn't or aren't upset about _____.

Straightforward talk is welcome. Just keep it about the topic, not about personalities. It's fine to say, 'I don't like this, for these reasons. I wanted to see _____". That will spark discussion. It's not ok to say "This is so stupid, and anyone who likes it is an idiot". That falls into the category of attacking your fellow posters, and is not tolerated here. In 7+ years here, I've never seen that approach produce any decent exchange of ideas, though it's started a lot of pointless arguments. There's a difference between honesty and offensiveness.

Self-deprecating humor is great - emphasis on "self". "Other-deprecating humor" usually falls victim to misunderstanding. It never works to demand that someone laugh. Senses of humor vary widely, just as opinions do.

The pro-PJ partizanship, as you put it - well, this site has the closest relationship with PJ and the production as a whole of any fansite. We have many of PJ's biggest cheerleaders here. We also have many people who did not like the movies and would prefer someone else directed The Hobbit. Some of them are staffers. So if people think that PJ actually achieved a good film treatment and would like to see him do it again, they are entitled to that opinion, just as you are entitled to disagree - civilly, and without personal attacks on either side.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea


Dec 31 2007, 6:23am

Post #11 of 87 (759 views)
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*mods up*// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Where's Frodo?


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Dec 31 2007, 8:34am

Post #12 of 87 (765 views)
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*seconds that mod-up* [In reply to] Can't Post

Self-deprecting humor is a favorite of mine. I am my own favorite punching bag.

If there was an 11th commandment, it should have been 'Make fun of thyself as often as possible'.

Seriously, great post.

My LJ
My art site
Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Dec 31 2007, 8:59am

Post #13 of 87 (790 views)
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The only thing I really miss about the old boards [In reply to] Can't Post

is being able to mod up. I never modded down, unless the person was really a troll, but I miss those little squares.

*mods up*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Letters from the Goddess
Firithyleleni
The Last Song of Leleni Mihaiën



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


a.s.
Valinor


Dec 31 2007, 10:31am

Post #14 of 87 (785 views)
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we are guardians of a treasure? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hoo boy. That's trouble.

Cool

Seriously, I wasn't here until after the ROTK filmed, so while I'm every bit as old as squire I'm not as, well, experienced. (Or some such word). (But every bit as crotchety. Back away from that rocking chair!).

And I'm seriously in the minority since I don't even really care for the BOOK "The Hobbit" let alone who films it.

But see, they tolerate me. (Or maybe they ignore me benignly, which, in the end, amounts to the same thing, what?). Just like I ignore the repeated posts about who-what-when-where-why-how will-won't-can't-shouldn't-wouldn't-couldn't-can, too film the Hobbit movies.

Try the Reading Room. Or Off Topic. It's fun! I'll join in critiquing the movie after it's been shown to me in a theater. For the time being, I just skim on down the board or jump to OT for a bit of fun and conversation.

a.s.

"an seileachan"

"Faith, hope, and charity--
These three.
But the greatest of these
Is charity.
~~~1 Corinthians 13:13


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Dec 31 2007, 10:57am

Post #15 of 87 (750 views)
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Make room in that rocking chair, sister. [In reply to] Can't Post

We survived the hoards of Leggy-loo-lovers in 2001, the flames over whether balrogs have wings, the accusations that Some People are Not a Real Fan (leading to the proud acronym NARF) and all the other brouhaha. I think the brouhaha is kind of fun, myself. I'm not a PJ worshipper by any means, and I had a lot of complaints and disappointments about the LotR movies (though there was a lot I loved about them too). I was able to voice them without feeling like I was going to be excommunicated by the true believers. I'm not all that interested in who does the Hobbit movie, but I'm looking forward to it with mild interest (I'm much, much more excited about the upcoming Nathan Hale movie, but that's another story.)

I hope the newbies don't feel shut out. I remember when I was a newbie: In my first post I jumped into the middle of an argument without introducing myself, and people were very gracious about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chance Meeting at Rivendell: a Tolkien Fanfic
and some other stuff I wrote...
leleni at hotmail dot com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Letters from the Goddess
Firithyleleni
The Last Song of Leleni Mihaiën



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


greendragon
Sr. Staff


Dec 31 2007, 11:43am

Post #16 of 87 (776 views)
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'Give us a P... Give us a J...' [In reply to] Can't Post

Ah well, at least it's a mercifully short chant. And what do you mean, 'BIGGEST cheerleaders'?! Must be all the Christmas overindulging I've been doing... Laugh

Sorry to be asinine in a serious thread; just feeling silly today. Tongue

'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 31 2007, 12:44pm

Post #17 of 87 (737 views)
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*scootches over* [In reply to] Can't Post

Amazing - not many folks have actual access to their first post!

I was a lurker in those days, but I remember the wildness. And it is fun, especially for the energy involved! It means that Tolkien fandom is both alive and lively.

(And you know I'll keep you informed of that "other movie", whenever we get local updates on it!Wink)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915


sherlock
Gondor


Dec 31 2007, 1:59pm

Post #18 of 87 (742 views)
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I miss the squares, too. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've only been modded up twice and it was for a one line joke each time which at first I thought kind of odd but I guess that meant someone else thought I was funny. I don't post much so really never expected any modding up at all. Like you, I never modded down but enjoyed the power to mod up when I wanted.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Dec 31 2007, 2:07pm

Post #19 of 87 (741 views)
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Thanks, Silverlode [In reply to] Can't Post

Great points all around.

Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.


NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows


silneldor
Half-elven


Dec 31 2007, 2:48pm

Post #20 of 87 (724 views)
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WOMP! [In reply to] Can't Post

*sits atop/sorta between*. No one is leaving me out of this thread *Tim Conway face*. 'sides i am the olderest cantankerii hereMad....Sly.

"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."

Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez


May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
By El~Cugu

From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'

Well! What do you know, it snowed.
Season's greetings with thoughts of Rivendell







Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Dec 31 2007, 2:56pm

Post #21 of 87 (717 views)
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Move over! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm old!

...

...

Sorry, I didn't get any sleep last night. Don't mind me.

And the thread has been completely derailed! Sorry to OP, but... who in the world can be serious during this time of the year?

My LJ
My art site
Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


silneldor
Half-elven


Dec 31 2007, 3:23pm

Post #22 of 87 (746 views)
Shortcut
Whizzzzzzzz [In reply to] Can't Post

*Throws red and green nurfball at (purple)greendragon*.

Happy New Year youLaugh.

"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."

Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez


May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
By El~Cugu

From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'

Well! What do you know, it snowed.
Season's greetings with thoughts of Rivendell







Loresilme
Valinor


Dec 31 2007, 4:03pm

Post #23 of 87 (723 views)
Shortcut
*Triple mods up* [In reply to] Can't Post

That was so well said, Silverlode. Having only been here a little over a year there are times I still feel like a newbie. Both sides of your analogy are so true ... as is your assessment:

______________________________________

Neither first impression is really accurate.
______________________________________


Thank you :-).


silneldor
Half-elven


Dec 31 2007, 4:03pm

Post #24 of 87 (743 views)
Shortcut
THIS [In reply to] Can't Post

should be put in a more conspicuous place with lights around it. Now this is something perfectly put, if i may put in my 1 and a half cents. *Puts in voucher for a raise for Silverlode's stocking*

"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."

Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez


May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
By El~Cugu

From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'

Well! What do you know, it snowed.
Season's greetings with thoughts of Rivendell







Loresilme
Valinor


Dec 31 2007, 4:07pm

Post #25 of 87 (721 views)
Shortcut
Yes, wasn't it? [In reply to] Can't Post

Should be required reading Smile.

*adds little bag of chocolate gold coins to Silverlode's stocking*

P.S. I like smilies too, silneldor Evil.

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