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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
A number of thoughts for both Elizabeth and Rembrethil

DanielLB
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Jul 22 2013, 9:37am


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A number of thoughts for both Elizabeth and Rembrethil [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you both for your essays. I find the topic on sentient animals (and purses) very interesting, and have a number of random musings going round my head while reading your essays.

Elizabeth - I hope I haven't mis-interpreted at what you were saying, but with regards to your German Shepard (and the Fox for that matter), you suggest that just because an animal will respond to verbal commands (especially if they have been trained), doesn't necessarily make them sentient. I agree with this, as it seems that a trained animal is simply using their limited intelliggence to respond to an associated verbal phrase. The fox might be able to think, but it doesn't mean it would be able to say it's words.

And what is the line between simple sentience (a thinking fox) and advanced sentience (a talking fox, perhaps?)

Rembrethil, you say that some animals may simply have forgotten how to communicate. Do you think that all animals (let's say in Third Age) were able to communicate (specifically verbal communication, in whatever tongue).

Is it possible that Bill the Pony was sentient, and if so, why didn't Tolkien mention it? Bill would probably have something more interesting to say during the Warg attack than a random fox.

The first TORn Amateur Symposium starts this week in the Reading Room! Come and join in!



Subject User Time
TORn AMATEUR SYMPOSIUM Day Two - Fauna of Middle Earth TORn Amateur Symposium Send a private message to TORn Amateur Symposium Jul 22 2013, 8:59am
    Subthread for "Models of Dragon Ontology", by Nordwarf. / TORn Amateur Symposium Send a private message to TORn Amateur Symposium Jul 22 2013, 8:59am
        Regarding Smaug DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 22 2013, 9:18am
        Of Maiar and animals Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 22 2013, 12:36pm
            Bravo - a good theory of dragons noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 22 2013, 1:50pm
            On Smaug Nordwarf Send a private message to Nordwarf Jul 22 2013, 9:01pm
                I really like.. elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 22 2013, 9:48pm
                    Which brings up yet another question. Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode Jul 22 2013, 9:57pm
                        I really wouldn't like to say Silverlode! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 22 2013, 10:07pm
                Excellent point about the wings Nordwarf! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 23 2013, 12:56am
        There be dragons cats16 Send a private message to cats16 Jul 22 2013, 3:54pm
        Good thoughts rangerfromthenorth Send a private message to rangerfromthenorth Jul 22 2013, 6:59pm
            My thoughts Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 22 2013, 8:04pm
    Subthread for "On the Communication of Animals and the Free Peoples of Middle Earth", by Rembrethil / TORn Amateur Symposium Send a private message to TORn Amateur Symposium Jul 22 2013, 9:00am
    Subthread for "Sentient Animals in the world of J.R.R. Tolkien", by Elizabeth / TORn Amateur Symposium Send a private message to TORn Amateur Symposium Jul 22 2013, 9:00am
        A "sentience" or two in response noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 22 2013, 1:57pm
        How we view anthropormorphizing Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 22 2013, 4:41pm
            Further discussion warrented? Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 22 2013, 4:45pm
                Lots of discussion! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 22 2013, 4:47pm
            Which might be made even more complex ... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 22 2013, 5:03pm
                Absolutely Daniel - (would the Fourth Speech of Huan rip space-time fabric!?) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 23 2013, 12:52am
        I enjoyed this so much Aunt Dora Baggins Send a private message to Aunt Dora Baggins Jul 22 2013, 9:57pm
        These ate excellent! sador Send a private message to sador Jul 25 2013, 6:23am
            Sorry, my ignorance. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Jul 25 2013, 7:06am
                Well, not quite. sador Send a private message to sador Jul 25 2013, 1:51pm
    A number of thoughts for both Elizabeth and Rembrethil DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 22 2013, 9:37am
        A few ideas Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 22 2013, 1:04pm
            Glaurung and Smaug as free agents Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 22 2013, 4:17pm
                Agreed Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 22 2013, 4:22pm
                    Me too Rembrethil! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 22 2013, 4:28pm
                        Likeable Villains Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 22 2013, 4:42pm
                            It's difficult for Smaug ... DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 22 2013, 5:08pm
                                Hmmm....... Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 22 2013, 5:27pm
                                    Oh, I don't feel sorry for Sauron at all. DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 22 2013, 5:37pm
                                        Ohhhhhhhhh! Now I understand. Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 22 2013, 7:16pm
            Wow, this is a really comprehensive account, Rembrethil! elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 22 2013, 10:20pm
                An UUT Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 23 2013, 4:19pm
                    ROFL. Thanks Rembrethil ! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 24 2013, 3:13pm
                The bird speak scenario Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 23 2013, 5:35pm
                    The Knack of Understanding Bird-speech Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Jul 24 2013, 1:33pm
                        Understanding in the ear of the beholder Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 24 2013, 3:12pm
        Words are a "human" communication method. Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Jul 22 2013, 4:53pm
            Yes Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Jul 22 2013, 5:54pm
            Although.... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 22 2013, 10:02pm
            Having read your essay, I went a re-read the chapter with the thinking fox. DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 22 2013, 10:08pm
                I like that idea too Daniel!// elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 22 2013, 10:23pm
                    The fox and lore - nice point Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 22 2013, 10:31pm
        Well, Sam seems to read Bill's thoughts several times. sador Send a private message to sador Jul 25 2013, 6:15am
    On sentience/communicaton cats16 Send a private message to cats16 Jul 22 2013, 4:04pm
        Thanks, and some thoughts Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 22 2013, 4:15pm
            I'm the same way for Tolkien cats16 Send a private message to cats16 Jul 22 2013, 4:34pm
            Yes. Aunt Dora Baggins Send a private message to Aunt Dora Baggins Jul 22 2013, 9:50pm
    A new article that might be of interest: Dolphins 'call each other by name' DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 23 2013, 7:09am
        Just saw this story on the news too Daniel! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 23 2013, 5:27pm
        and the complexity of prairie dog language! telain Send a private message to telain Jul 30 2013, 11:04pm
            Interesting article, thanks for the link Telain! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 30 2013, 11:41pm
            Is it "morally" right? DanielLB Send a private message to DanielLB Jul 31 2013, 8:52am
                I feel it is one of those things... telain Send a private message to telain Jul 31 2013, 4:24pm
    A late contribution from the late Reverend Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Jul 27 2013, 8:27am
        What a fun read! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 27 2013, 3:08pm

 
 
 

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