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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
*Spoilers*

Werde Spinner
Rohan


Jul 20 2013, 9:04pm

Post #1 of 10 (1539 views)
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*Spoilers* Can't Post

Smaug's Corpse. I meant to bring this up earlier, when everyone's attention was still on AUJ, but, of course, I forgot.

Now, in The Hobbit it says that Smaug's corpse rested on the lakebed, and even after the jewels and gold coins fell from his rotting flesh no one dared to retrieve them. Personally, I've always wondered why, especially after other underwater organisms would have reduced him to a skeleton. I guess there is the fear of part of one of his ribs breaking off and trapping a diver or something along those lines. Not sure.

However, on p. 17 of WETA Chronicles I Art & Design (I looked it up this time, you see), there is a drawing on the bottom right-hand corner by Alan Lee of a claw, with the description: "...to identify it as something Bilbo had brought back from his travels. I drew a concept for a tooth, claw, or spur that looked dragonish. At this point in the story it is left a little ambiguous exactly what it is, but the implication is that it is from Smaug."

On watching AUJ (again), I noticed that while Frodo is being the nosy nephew and rummaging through Bilbo's stuff he does, indeed, hold up at one point what looks like this claw. If so, this claw is nowhere near the size of what would be appropriate for Smaug.

Any thoughts? Do you think that there will be some scavenging of the dragon's corpse by the men of Laketown or by anybody else? Is that really a claw Frodo is holding, or am I imagining things? If it is a claw, do you think it belongs to Smaug?

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jul 20 2013, 10:33pm)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Grey Havens


Jul 20 2013, 9:49pm

Post #2 of 10 (681 views)
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according to Smaugīs size, yeah thats a point, an interesting one SPOLER [In reply to] Can't Post

I imagine thatīs because no one is able to gounderwater to take them, but if laketowners would able to do so, then reward for killing the dragon would be in the place of the city

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Jul 21 2013, 12:15am

Post #3 of 10 (487 views)
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Sorry! [In reply to] Can't Post

So sorry to people who have not read the book browsing the forum. Didn't think about my thread title. My humble apologies. Will try not to do this again. Crazy

Thanks to the mods for fixing it!

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


Metal Slug
Rivendell

Jul 21 2013, 5:48am

Post #4 of 10 (391 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe it's a small dew claw or fang, doesn't seem too out of proportion. I always foud that passage odd that nobody would want an artefact from a rare dragon. I'd take the skull, though Smaug's would be awfully big. Shocked


Na Vedui
Rohan


Jul 22 2013, 12:39am

Post #5 of 10 (200 views)
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Superstition? [In reply to] Can't Post

One approach to a dead enemy is to treat bits of them as a trophy; but the other possible reaction is superstitious fear - after all, plenty of people are creeped out by graveyards and skeletons, even ones belonging to their own people. And in the context of The Hobbit, it mightn't just be superstition to be afraid of hoarding a dragon's bones or jewels he had actually worn (dragon-sickness, anybody?).

(This post was edited by Na Vedui on Jul 22 2013, 12:41am)


FiliSonOfDis
Rivendell


Jul 22 2013, 4:06pm

Post #6 of 10 (137 views)
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I always assumed [In reply to] Can't Post

Superstition or something similar...Smaug still being alive or something the people were THAT afraid of him in life and they can't even comprehend that he really is dead odwn there or something. Thats how I always read that line.

As for bilbos trophy, Smaug has a lot of little pointy parts on him it looks like. just from the head we saw he has little spikes everywhere. I'm guessing its not a "claw" exactly but one of those much smaller spikes on him that bilbo kept...which yes deviates from that line in the book but out of all the deviations the fact some people got bits of smaug out from the lake and bilbo kept a spike doesnt bug me at all compared to other deviations we've all come to accept.


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Jul 22 2013, 7:47pm

Post #7 of 10 (84 views)
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Good point [In reply to] Can't Post

I would never want to be one of those people diving for bits of Smaug myself - I probably would have some sort of superstitious fear that he would suddenly come to life, as well! I've wondered, however, if future generations who had not seen Smaug themselves and never lived in the Laketown that burned would be less fearful of this sort of thing. Surely, by that point, even Smaug's tough skin would be decayed, and they could pick up valuables. Don't know. We really don't have a lot of information about dead dragons, do we?

The explanation of it being a much smaller spike from Smaug makes a lot of sense. I'll go with that. I'm not bothered by the deviation myself (I am not bothered by a lot of things in the movie in comparison to others, actually; I mind it more when the characters are messed up, and I haven't seen too much of that yet).

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Jul 22 2013, 7:53pm

Post #8 of 10 (86 views)
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I'd like to see that go over in negotiations! [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think Bard would take it very well if Thorin just told him, "Yeah... valid point that Laketown burned down and that we annoyed the dragon enough into doing it, so you can have all the jewels that were stuck to his body as recompense." Methinks Bard would not care for that. Perhaps he would insist the Dwarves fetch the jewels off Smaug's corpse themselves for the Laketowners. Do Dwarves swim? Somehow I always imagined them as being rather dense and not floating very well.

Dunno, it's an interesting thought... Would make the negotiations a lot more interesting and/or entertaining! Wink

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Jul 22 2013, 7:54pm

Post #9 of 10 (90 views)
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The skull, now that's an interesting choice. [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess it'd be kind of big to put on the mantle. It might very well dwarf the whole house! Now a tooth would be very cool... perhaps one of the smaller ones. It could be used as a steak knife on special occasions or simply left on the table or mounted on the wall as a conversation piece when guests come over! Laugh

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."


Werde Spinner
Rohan


Jul 22 2013, 7:56pm

Post #10 of 10 (108 views)
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That is a *very* good point. [In reply to] Can't Post

I had not even considered the coins and gems stuck to Smaug as inciting dragon-sickness... They're probably even more contagious than the rest of the hoard, come to think of it. On second thoughts, yeah, maybe having a bit of Smaug or his fine diamond waistcoat around might not be such a good idea.

"I had forgotten that. It is hard to be sure of anything among so many marvels. The world is all grown strange. Elf and Dwarf in company walk in our daily fields; and folk speak with the Lady of the Wood and yet live; and the Sword comes back to war that was broken in the long ages ere the fathers of our fathers rode into the Mark! How shall a man judge what to do in such times?"

"As he ever has judged. Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house."

 
 

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