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Sil discussion of Turin Turambar: Dragons and Vala

Brethil
Half-elven


Jul 17 2013, 6:09pm


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Let us discuss some extrnal influences on Turin: The Dragon Glaurung, that fiery calamity; and of the Vala, the one we see the most of being Morgoth; but Ulmo's presence is around and about, and implied throughout the tale.


THE DRAGON

Glaurung arrives in Nargothrond with a job to do - and he does it well. He both waylays Turin, and sets Nienor in his path. Then, he does as he wishes, and routs his fellow dark minions for a nice long nap.


** Back in his youth Glaurung disobeyed Morgoth and went forth before his time, against orders. Now in his prime we see him following the commands as long as they suit him, but quickly indulging himself and withdrawing from the action to claim Nargothrond. And there is no loyalty among pillagers it seems - Glaurung does as much or more damage to nearby Orcs as any enemy. So is this an alliance of any sort between Morgoth and Glaurung, or merely a convenient and temporary merging of goals? And does this evidence potentially support or contradict the idea of Glaurung as a housed Maiar spirit, incarnate in his wicked, Wyrmy form?

**We see the genius in Glaurung's 'curse': in further seeding the anonymity of Nienor, never seen by Turin, by painfully describing her as a thrall in Dor-Lomin. The strength of a Dragons 'prophesy': if there was any sense of conscious recognition (perhaps a superficial resemblance to Morwen) when Turin finds the anonymous girl, can we say Glaurung's strategy makes it virtually impossible that Turin will even consider who the girl really is? Or that, based on his mother and sister being tortured, the impossibility that he would go after Finduilas, despite the words of Gwindor?

**The Mirror of the Dragon's eye...as Glaurung lays out Turin's life in appalling descriptions, can we see the evolution of the names that Turin has taken - is he so susceptible to the Mirror of Glaurung's eye because he has been fleeing these same entities all along? Mirrors have a special place in Middle Earth, and have inherent power; can we see the Mirror of the Dragon as the philosphic opposite of Galadriel's Mirror?

** The black, acid blood of Glaurung is one of the last tastes of blood that Gurthang has. He strikes down one more in Turin's hands - Brandir - and then breaks beneath Turin as he dies. We see broken sword blades often in the legendarium, and one may theorize that if the sword represents strength and prowess, than its breaking must represent death and defeat. Do we think that the blood of the Dragon could have affected this mighty sword, causing it to break? Or, in keeping with traditions we see with other characters, it is the death of Turin himself which breaks the blade?



THE VALA IN THE TALE

**Morgoth takes both Turin's sisters, in seperate and very distant ways. He uses contagion and then Glaurung to do his bidding, and both losses are cruel. Can we see these as a particular, continung device of Morgoth's design, corrupting the hearts of Men through grief by exploiting their mortality?

**At the waters of Ivrin, Turin is healed by Ulmo's power, which holds the power of the 'endless laughter' of crystal-fed springs. Having lost the laughter of Lalaith and having been cast into grief, we read about laughter again here at Ivrin, and it heals Turin, allowing him to weep and be free of his numbing grief. Do we see this as intentional, a cycle of sorts, or simply literary language? If it is cyclical, is this a gift from Ulmo and a chance for Turin to begin again? He seems to bloom in Nargothrond, where he earns the appellation Man-elf, and comes into his own as the known son of Hurin. Does this explain his pride, and his resolution over the Bridge? So can we see Gwindor's revelation of his name as the final nail in the coffin of Nargothrond, as that increased honor and renown allows Turin to make that decision, and because of Turin's high regard Gwindor's counsel - to cast down the bridge - is ignored?

**The message from Ulmo, and his foreseeing of the fall of Nargothrond before the fall of Gondolin. Interesting that the fate of Men is out of the sight of the Valar, yet Ulmo has seen the fall of Nargothrond - which is due to a man: Turin's choice, Turin's bridge, and his overarching pride in it. Is this a contradiction? Or not?





Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.






Subject User Time
Sil discussion of Turin Turambar: Dragons and Vala Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 17 2013, 6:09pm
    The Mirror of the Dragon's eye. noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 17 2013, 9:24pm
        I have the same question Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 18 2013, 2:34am
    The swords that are brokenů noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 17 2013, 9:30pm
        You may have the long and the short of it there Furincurunir. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 18 2013, 2:37am
        A bone to pick with you about your Freudian analogy... Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 4:12am
            Thorin's sword... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 19 2013, 10:54am
                Did someone say... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 19 2013, 11:13am
                Smelling salts too...oh you've got them. thanks...!!! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 1:23pm
                Dragon-spell Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 19 2013, 5:03pm
                    I wonder whether it belatedly affects Balin, & so contributes to the doomed Moria adventure? // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 19 2013, 9:23pm
                    JRRT does write of the power of gold that has long been dragon-brooded. Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 11:44pm
            Hmmm.... elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 20 2013, 2:27pm
                Figured you would catch that Elaen!! Hopefully it made you laugh. /// Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 20 2013, 3:29pm
    We may just be on the same Wavelength! Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 17 2013, 9:50pm
        More thoughts on the origin of dragons (I missed the edit window, drat) Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 17 2013, 10:05pm
        Fantastic points Rembrethil! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 18 2013, 3:34am
            Turin's Diary: A Chronicle of Sorrow Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 19 2013, 4:53am
                I agree - maybe that *should* be written! (Shaking a good idea.) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 1:14pm
    On the point of the sword... noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 19 2013, 11:01am
        Bound in death. Nice // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 19 2013, 1:17pm
    Glaurung.. elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 20 2013, 2:37pm
        Dragon origins Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 20 2013, 3:38pm
            Cuddly dragon babies CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 20 2013, 5:39pm
                Ungoliant and Glaurung Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 20 2013, 6:14pm
                    It's safer CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 20 2013, 6:44pm
                        Not when you ARE the dinner though CG elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 20 2013, 7:04pm
                            I'm afraid that IS the case...! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 20 2013, 8:23pm
                The Flame Living fealoki Send a private message to fealoki Jul 20 2013, 8:42pm
                    ? Tureen elaen32 Send a private message to elaen32 Jul 20 2013, 8:46pm
    Mirror, mirror, on the wall...and in the water...and in a dragon's eye CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 20 2013, 6:10pm
        Mirrors and swords! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 21 2013, 2:03am
    Ulmo and Turin CuriousG Send a private message to CuriousG Jul 20 2013, 6:41pm
        Nargothrond and pride (more pride! Pride everywhere!) Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 21 2013, 2:12am

 
 
 

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