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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Letís talk about directors. Or not.
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Noria
Rohan

Jul 15 2013, 8:11pm

Post #1 of 90 (1716 views)
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Letís talk about directors. Or not. Can't Post

Actually my point here is that without PJ there would have been no LotR films and therefore no Hobbit movie of any type, and so there are no other directors to consider.

After Fellowship of the Rings was released and up until this day, on various sites people have lamented that itís a tragedy that a better director didn't direct The Lord of the Rings. Then there is a discussion of which great directors would have been best. Thatís fine as an academic exercise but IMO it was never going to happen in real life. Now the same discussion goes on about The Hobbit.

The truth is that if any of those powerful directors had wanted to make LotR or The Hobbit into a movie, they would have. If a relatively obscure director from New Zealand could find a way to get hold of the rights to LotR and the money to film it, surely somebody with a lot more clout in the movie business could have done so if they had wanted to. It would seem that none did and Iíd be surprised if a lot of them didn't share the wide worldís dismissive attitude towards Tolkienís works and their fans; itís still geek stuff in many eyes. Peter Jackson was the one with the interest, the vision, the perseverance and the stamina to get the rights, get the movies funded and make them. There never was another director.

The Hobbit is a little different but not entirely. Even if they actually liked the source material, Iíd be surprised if any of the big directors would want to return to Middle Earth after PJís success. When The Hobbit movie was announced, there was talk that going back to Middle Earth was just more of the same, cashing in on the success of LotR, lacking in creativity, and so on. These directors have their own visions to realize. Less well known directors might have taken the opportunity though.

It was different with del Toro Ė heís a genre director and a complete geek too, even if originally he didn't like The Hobbit. I havenít seen Pacific Rim but the trailers and reviews suggest that itís not exactly subtle, so who knows what his Hobbit would have been like.

Personally, I like PJ as a director. After seeing his LotR, I understand and accept that he likes big, over-the-top action sequences, special effects and childish humour, has no qualms about modifying the original as he sees fit, understands how to make and use beauty, and is faithful and meticulous about production values. Things as beautiful as Thorin singing the Misty Mountains song, as quiet as Bilboís awakening after the Unexpected Party, as silly as Radagastís bird poop and as larger than life as the Dwarves in the Goblin caves are all equally part of his vision.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 8:45pm

Post #2 of 90 (893 views)
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Eventually LOTR would have been filmed [In reply to] Can't Post

with or without Peter Jackson. All the stars just happened to align right and it worked out the way it did back before LOTR was released. I'm fine with that. It was timing but to say that LOTR would never have been made without Peter Jackson IMO is just opinion and not fact. The LOTR and the Hobbit could clearly have been made without Peter Jackson they may even have been better than what we did get. but we'll have to wait for the remake to know for sure. which IMO will happen, Hollywood knows no end to their greed, and since Jackson owns none of the rights it is almost certain we will see another directors take on Tolkien's material probably within our lifetimes. Wink


Noria
Rohan

Jul 15 2013, 9:04pm

Post #3 of 90 (847 views)
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That may well be true. [In reply to] Can't Post

I have no way of knowing if anyone would ever have taken on filming LotR but the truth is that as of the late 1990ís nobody had. I've heard of no reports that anybody else was even trying to get the rights and make a movie at that time.

My point is that people bring up great directors who they feel would have made a much better LotR but none of them showed any visible interest in doing back then. If Peter Jackson could get it done, more powerful people could have accomplished it more easily. But they didn't.

I doubt that there will be another version in my lifetime, because I'm old, but I'm just fine with that.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jul 15 2013, 9:20pm

Post #4 of 90 (812 views)
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After seeing [In reply to] Can't Post

Pacific Rim, Jackson was the only real choice for doing an epic like The Hobbit, faults and all. Del Toro, while a fine director, seemed out of his depth with a big film, even though I like what he did with Pacific Rim.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 9:26pm

Post #5 of 90 (837 views)
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Simply put : [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkiens books deserve the best, outstanding, most visionary and capable of directors. The likes of David Lean, Malick, Cuaron, Peter Weir...im sure, many other names...


Peter Bad Taste Jackson is not suited, imo, for Tolkien.

His very undisciplined and contradictory nature as a filmmaker is a detriment to the adaptations. He can create great scenes worthy of the books, but then he ruins it all with inventions, ott scenes, bad writing, and a taste for the juvenile, the vulgar, melodrama and the predictable...

Lotr and TH should be treated as Lawrence of Arabia, an absolute masterpiece, a classic that would earn the respect and admiration of everyone for its cinematic brilliance.

I like Lotr , specially fellowship, but i easily recognize that they could have been so much better with a greater director at the helm.

But a TV adaptation is my dream now. This a golden age of television and it is much easier to do it today than in the past.

Some day perhaps ...Wink

PS :

After viewing the dos trailer i have been consuming huge daily doses of the LOA trailer as a remedy :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1i9x0nujWTk

Now THAT is a proper trailer. That is epicness.

And all real and tangible. Brilliant.

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Jul 15 2013, 9:27pm)


Davadino
Registered User

Jul 15 2013, 9:34pm

Post #6 of 90 (814 views)
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It's funny you should mention it [In reply to] Can't Post

Today I watched a film called Excalibur from 1981 based on the legend of King Arthur. After reading about it online, the director John Boorman wished to make a film based on The Lord of the Ring but couldn't get the rights so he made Excalibur instead and apparently some of the sets used in that film were meant for his adaptation of The Lord of the Rings.


Rostron2
Gondor


Jul 15 2013, 9:46pm

Post #7 of 90 (787 views)
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Whatever director you choose [In reply to] Can't Post

They must have the passion for the kind of epic storytelling that TH and LOTR is.

GDT would have gotten some aspects of the mythology look right, but in the end, he prefers working with his own material.

Alfonso Cuaron has a real flair for characters. Some people liked his HP film (including me) however, the style would have changed

David Lean is gone, alas, but I don't think he would have been picked for something like this.

Terence Malick would give us line-by line shots of Tolkien's fascination with the vegetation. Great vistas, beautiful trees, birds nesting the hazel thicket, etc.

The criticisms here of PJ's adaptation make him sound like a buffoon such as Michael Bay. No one in their right Tolkien mind would have liked that.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 9:59pm

Post #8 of 90 (773 views)
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David lean over a horror gore filmmaker? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why not? Its not like Jacksons brilliant filmography overshadows his...

Meet the Feeeebles, a lot of action! :P

And he certainly had a skill for great epics and detailed, vast scenic pieces. Appropriate for lotr.

I feel youre over simplifying malick and making a caricature...He has a sensibility and an understanding of the language and beauty of film that jackson doesnt. Not even in his wildest dreams.

What has jackson done that even remotely approaches Badlands or The New World or The Thin Red Line...

I didnt say jackson was a Bay, no no...

Bay is just action porn.

But hes no Great filmmaker neither, imo.

Jackon takes Tolkien and makes a MC donalds burguer out of it, with some fine delicous crusty bits on top, imo.

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 15 2013, 10:24pm

Post #9 of 90 (744 views)
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Bomby is really sick of PJ Bashing.../// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 15 2013, 10:25pm

Post #10 of 90 (774 views)
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Here's a link to a good discussion [In reply to] Can't Post

about Boorman's Lord of the Rings script: http://newboards.theonering.net/...rum.cgi?post=442280;

You might find it very, ah, interesting!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"






Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 10:43pm

Post #11 of 90 (756 views)
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My opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry you dont like it.


I dont have a fan card written across my face that says : In PJ we trust. Not my style.


Notice how i didnt write a similar comment on your constant appraisal of the director? Why is that?

Peace.

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Skaan
Lorien


Jul 15 2013, 10:47pm

Post #12 of 90 (739 views)
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The fact that [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ chose Howard Shore as the composer, New Zealand as the location, John Howe & Alan Lee as the conceptual artists and Ian McKellen as Gandalf is enough reason for me to believe that PJ was the right choice for these movies. I realise other directors could have picked these aswell, but that would be very unlikely. Also, we wouldn't have gotten WETA's sets and attributes and all the massive detail they put into everything if it wasn't for PJ.

PJ's directing may leave something to be desired to some, but you can't deny all the positives that he has brought with him. Positives that other, perhaps greater, directors might not have gotten.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 11:03pm

Post #13 of 90 (707 views)
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sure but [In reply to] Can't Post

shore music is great but it could be very different. I have heard to different musical interpretations of ME and there are many different ways to go about it.

Europe could work even better for ME. Take advantage of real castles and old buildings. Next season of GOT will be using Dioclecian's palace in croatia for a scene. I find this fantastic work and brave filmmaking. TH hardly takes advantage of nature's features to enlarge ME. Mostly studio, sadly.


Ian mckellen as gandalf is brilliant i think, but as he said, many others could have played gandy. Wink I look forward to another gandalf someday. Quite a challenge.

Love those artist skills, but there is another : Ted Nasmith. Hes my favourite actually. His grey havens painting is almost perfect. Thats how i wish the grey havens had been : at night, with a moon on the sky, on a real location...

Great directors are usually surrounded by great talent and quite capable people.

Jackson is hardly the only custodian of "positives".

Im confident other people would have thought of alan lee and john howe as well.

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan


Jul 15 2013, 11:29pm

Post #14 of 90 (714 views)
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Honestly... [In reply to] Can't Post

I still mourn that del Toro didn't carry on with the Hobbit. He has such an understanding and love for creatures and fantasy worlds, in light of Jackson's first Hobbit film (which I eventually wound up enjoying for a bit before it faded from memory) and now seeing footage from DoS, I truly wish del Toro didn't bail.

That's not the case though and all I can do is continue to imagine what might have been. And hope del Toro delivers some kind of insane fantasy film somewhere down the line (I know the second Hellboy and Pan's Labyrinth came close in spots.) Or perhaps I will just go bugger off into the world of Pacific Rim again.

My apologies to PJ fans, I'm not one of you, but I would have enjoyed seeing a very visual and different director take on the Hobbit. I don't think they would have been intimidated by LoTR for too long. The stories while connected are a bit different.

"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you anywhere." - Albert Einstein.



Shagrat
Gondor

Jul 15 2013, 11:40pm

Post #15 of 90 (711 views)
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Cuaron? [In reply to] Can't Post

Please. What has he done to deserve being mentioned alongside Lean? Children of Men and a by-the-numbers Harry Potter film? Malick would have made something so pretentious that he would probably have alienated 3/4 of his audience. The second half of New World was awful, boring twaddle.

Lean and Kubrick made some stunning films but they're dead now. There's no one alive who can helm an epic as stunning as these two genuises. It's just not going to happen.


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jul 16 2013, 12:02am)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 16 2013, 12:00am

Post #16 of 90 (681 views)
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Cauron IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

 would have done a great Job, I personally think he does treat his films with respect and comes across in interviews as trying to understand the material he is filming. Something in all honesty I think Jackson has forgotten. I'm not saying Jackson is a bad director, not my style in many cases , but not a bad director. I just think he has gotten too big for his britches in middle earth feeling he can do whatever he wants, how he wants without a care towards the source material.That's my biggest complaint about Jackson's Hobbit films so far is that he feels he can add whatever he wants and people will just have to suck it up and like it. Maybe that's why I voice my opinion about NOT liking it. I think many directors could have done the Hobbit justice, like Ridley Scott, Cauron, I did like Yates's take on the Potter films, Russell Mulcahy did a great job with the original Highlander film and one of the resident evil films. So many directors could have done a good job with the Hobbit and made it likeable to say only Jackson could have done it is totally false


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jul 16 2013, 12:02am

Post #17 of 90 (704 views)
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If I may be so bold [In reply to] Can't Post

May I suggest that anyone who would like to know how and why Peter Jackson was able to make The Lord of the Rings might want to read the first chapter of my book, The Frodo Franchise. It is the only reasonably complete account I know that deals with the entire background of the making and release of the trilogy. I was able to interview people directly involved, notably Ken Kamins, PJ's agent, who helped negotiate the rights deal with Saul Zaentz.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 16 2013, 12:12am

Post #18 of 90 (678 views)
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A reminder to please discuss the topic, not each other. [In reply to] Can't Post

Personal comments and insults have been removed from this discussion thread, as per our Terms of Service. Please keep your responses to the topic at hand so that we don't have to edit or remove any posts.

Thanks.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


VoronwŽ_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jul 16 2013, 12:15am

Post #19 of 90 (668 views)
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I think you have earned the right to be so bold [In reply to] Can't Post

Just sayin'.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 16 2013, 12:22am

Post #20 of 90 (663 views)
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shagrat [In reply to] Can't Post

On your comments : i didnt equate him to Lean, actually, let me clarify, i said he would be one of a variety of filmmakers who have quite a strong artistic vision and a versatility and an understanding of characters and of the worlds they live in.

Children of Men and Azkaban have more Art, daring visuals, great camera work, and sheer cinematic quality than anything in AUJ, imo.

That biker crash against the car as viewed form the people inside was a brilliant moment of cinema. Uniquely immersive and yet so simple.

It is apity they are dead. Sigh indeed.

What wrong with them? Nothing per se, and if you love gore and disgusting stuff...They tell me jackson is not the sort of director with the sort of sensibilities for Tolkien, imo.

The second half of that film actually contains some of my first moments, actually.

But history has proven that these unconventional, brave daring, unique objects are vindicated, sooner or later. No matter how many thirds of the audiences they initially repulse.

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Jul 16 2013, 12:30am)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 16 2013, 12:29am

Post #21 of 90 (646 views)
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Me too [In reply to] Can't Post

and yes he doe seem to have...

Someone who can do pans labyrinth, and hellboy 2, and the devils backbone, would be a very interesting and refreshing choice for the fairytale TH.

El Labyrinto del Fauno-Original Title- and Legend by Scott are two of my favourite fairytale films.

Imo, vastly superior to auj, in being original, sweepingly moving, gorgeously filmed, charming, iconic...

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 16 2013, 12:58am

Post #22 of 90 (665 views)
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CUT SPJ some Slack? [In reply to] Can't Post

HONESTLY?

He is what he is?

AIN'T it Great?
(Goldberry made Bomby write this.
from Valinor)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 16 2013, 2:07am

Post #23 of 90 (612 views)
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I have given him plenty of slack [In reply to] Can't Post

but the truth is Jackson IS replaceable as far as making middle earth films. A great number of good directors could do much better than Jackson IMO and a few mediocre ones couldn't do any worse than he has with the Hobbit IMO also. I will say I thought he was perfect for LOTR but after seeing AUJ, I think the helm should have been handed over to someone else, even his protegee Neill Blomkamp or whatever his name was.... but that is only my opinion of course Wink


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 16 2013, 2:13am

Post #24 of 90 (604 views)
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Youre more forgiving than i am sinister [In reply to] Can't Post

i dont think he was perfect for lotr...he was good and sometimes really good...hardly consistently brilliant or masterfull., though there were several brilliant moments in those films, imo Wink


I praise him all the time as well....my favourite screenshots, my comments on the first hour, on the misty mountains scene...

But it could be even worse than jackson course...GLucas as the captain of this ship! Shocked

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Jul 16 2013, 2:13am)


jtarkey
Rohan


Jul 16 2013, 2:46am

Post #25 of 90 (668 views)
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I'm beginning to think that PJ's LOTR trilogy was a fluke... [In reply to] Can't Post

I maintain that those films are complete and utter MASTERPIECES of cinema. I'm not saying they are masterpieces as adaptations. However, they hit all the right notes in the movie world.

After seeing all of Jacksons other films, I can't help but feel he was the most apprehensive about LOTR. It was a huge undertaking, that would either make or break his career. All the stars aligned for those 3 films. It was almost like a long lost family got together to make a genuinely epic and emotional saga.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"

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