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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Here's to hoping that DOS will be better than AUJ...
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 14 2013, 11:02pm

Post #1 of 80 (1766 views)
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Here's to hoping that DOS will be better than AUJ... Can't Post

Why is it everyone feels they have to be negative or positive about the film(s)? I really don't understand. Yes for the most part I am negative about the film AUJ because I feel it was a terrible film in comparison to LOTR (which is the films we have to compare it to) and the Hobbit book (which I do feel is a superior bit of story telling compared to all the made up content Jackson gave us). But I also say positive things about the film too. Almost all of which are about the parts that stuck to the book and told the story I wanted to see. THE HOBBIT.... not the Hobbit plus this or that. I realize its all perspective and some people just don't want to ruin things for them selves or have looked forward to these films for so long they refuse to see the bad choices made in production. Some just want to believe the glass is half full. But there is ALWAYS that other side of the coin no matter how much people wish it wasn't there. The bad is always with the good. if the glass is half full, well in truth, it is half empty. Negative and positive and personally I think the Hobbit has plenty of both.

Maybe with DOS I'll like the film better maybe I wont. I wont know till i sit in the theater and watch it for myself to come to that conclusion. If the tone migrates more towards LOTR and they lay off the unrealistic antics (which I doubt from seeing the trailer), and at least keep the parts of the book they do include a little faithful, just a little, I very well might enjoy it more than I did AUJ. AUJ was great when it told the story of the Hobbit but for me was awful when it deviated into stuff that was complete nonsense(my opinion) to what Tolkien wrote. Those who enjoyed that stuff or were able to overlook it I truly am happy you could, those who never really wanted the Hobbit as Tolkien wrote it and were content with Jackson's professional grade fan fiction inserted where it wasn't in the original story and liked it I'm happy for you too. Those like myself who felt dissatisfied with AUJ try and hold your head up and think maybe DOS and TABA will flow more into the LOTR style and tone and hope that the made up content is less and less throughout the remainder of the films.

Here's to hoping DOS will be better than AUJ.Wink


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 14 2013, 11:07pm

Post #2 of 80 (885 views)
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Have you [In reply to] Can't Post

seen trebuched Bombur stealing an orcs weapon in mid air flight and crashing bandicoot amidst a pack of orcs?


Have you seen unmagical, unsubtle, dumb action galore Beorn?

Sorry, Tongue

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 14 2013, 11:12pm

Post #3 of 80 (828 views)
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well I'm trying to maintain a positive outlook [In reply to] Can't Post

that the actual story of the Hobbit will outweigh the made up stuff and I'll be able to overlook the parts Jackson makes upUnsure which I generally think are garbage. Wink


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 14 2013, 11:17pm

Post #4 of 80 (869 views)
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My patience is running thin [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink


Hope the october trailer is very different than the last one so some measure of excitement permeates down my spine..

As to the invented stuff vs actual story...well see...

Not much faith in that, must admit. Jacksons enjoying it isnt he? That tells me oh boy, this one is going places...bad places Crazy

But i sympathise with your outlook. Wink

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Metal Slug
Rivendell

Jul 15 2013, 12:55am

Post #5 of 80 (757 views)
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My fingers are crossed [In reply to] Can't Post

That CG will be limited when possible
-Radagast to a bare minimum
-less slapstick humour
-Azog is quickly killed
-Galadriel doesn't teleport to Dol Guldor
-The barrel scene isn't full retard
-Oh, Legolas to a minimum
-that they kill Smaug in this one. (Im sick of waiting 3 years for this novel!)
The triumvirate sticks to canon


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jul 15 2013, 1:13am

Post #6 of 80 (798 views)
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The Fat Man who succeeded by slapstick [In reply to] Can't Post

Seems I read some drama a while back, where one character was a fat guy, and he was played as the comedy relief, always succeeding by some slapstick ruse, yet having the heart of a lion inside while at times appearing cowardly on the outside. What was that drama again?

Oh yeah, it was called "Henry IV Part One", and the author was William Shakespeare. Wink

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.




sycorax82
Rohan

Jul 15 2013, 1:20am

Post #7 of 80 (779 views)
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Well, seeing as there's gonna be more 'made up' material in DoS... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I guess you might want to pass on seeing it at all!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 1:28am

Post #8 of 80 (722 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post

im still trying to connect Crash Bandicoot Bombur to william shakespeare...........wait for it......waaaaittttt....



Failed.

Tongue

Vous commencez ŗ m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 1:59am

Post #9 of 80 (741 views)
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well i am hoping [In reply to] Can't Post

other than the Tauriel/Legolas, White Council stuff which I could really take or leave either way I'm hoping that the rest of the book will get represented rather well. well enough so when all 3 films are done a fan edit can take everything unnecessary out of the films and make it into the Real version of the Hobbit.

No made up tombs, no wizards covered in bird crap, as little necromancer as possible, Azog on the cutting room floor. Just the basic story of Bilbo Baggins and his adventure there and back again.

So believe me I know there will be more made up IMO nonsense but I'll just use those as a concession stand or well timed bathroom break... Wink cause to me that's all that material is worth Tongue


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 15 2013, 4:47am

Post #10 of 80 (676 views)
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Another light to look at it in [In reply to] Can't Post

You are 100% correct to say we can be versatile on the different parts of the film without getting one big label placed on us! I don't like the "love it or hate it" attitude. I posted one thread about how the stone giants take me out of the movie and got called an AUJ hater! Toatally rediculous! This is despite my favorable opinions towards Azog, Radagast and other plot changes.

I love love love the Hobbit but I can rightfully acknowledge that it really isn't written for film. I also don't consider it an untouchable classic either like so many others on my book shelf. There's no character development at all! PJ said that the 13 dwarves were one of his biggest fears and rightfully so IMO. PJ has AT LEAST given us great dwarves with individuality and character. I can actually tell you which dwarf is which now and my reading of the book has become exponentially better because of it.

I think DoS will tweak you still if you are hoping for the exact book. I thought AUJ kept the iconic book scenes and portrayed them well but I also came to love and understand the changes movie wise much like in the LOTR. I mean, I just finished reading LOTR and the differences are immense! I'll admit the first time seeing the Hobbit was a tad weird to me as well. So don't get too bogged down and cherish the parts you know and love while acknowledging and critiquing the new. As I said in another thread, the new parts only lower our knowledge of what is going to happen in many parts and that gets me very excited!


(This post was edited by The Mitch King on Jul 15 2013, 4:52am)


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jul 15 2013, 8:19am

Post #11 of 80 (601 views)
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Like coffee [In reply to] Can't Post

I think a lot of people just wanted hot black coffee, and were ok with cream and sugar if it came to that.
PJ's Hobbit so far is a triple latte caramel machiatto with extra whipped cream ... it still has the coffee like we wanted, but with a lot of extra stuff in it ...

ďI don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.Ē



Eleniel
Grey Havens


Jul 15 2013, 12:51pm

Post #12 of 80 (531 views)
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Excellent analogy! [In reply to] Can't Post

Many of us were more than happy to have "extras" to the book and very excited about the DG storyline/Dwarf history, etc., - all the usable stuff from The Appendices.,....

...until it turned out that actually the basic ingredients were being taken out and beaten to within an inch of their lives, and a whole batch of other ingredients were being substituted, along with various flavourings to enhance the recipe!


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Į Victoria Monfort


Noria
Rohan

Jul 15 2013, 1:01pm

Post #13 of 80 (562 views)
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It's all a matter of opinion. [In reply to] Can't Post

I donít care for the OPís implication that those of us who love AUJ are willfully blinding ourselves to or deluding ourselves about what he perceives as its faults. Those faults exist in his opinion, which is perfectly valid as an opinion. Mine is different, and while I certainly donít think the movie is perfect, I donít care.

I very much liked most of the additional material, and even Azog has grown on me to the extent that I kind of like him. I knew there would be large actions sequences, silliness like the bird poop, new material and so on because that is PJís style. I knew it would be bigger than The Hobbit novel because thatís what the larger audience would want. My glass is about 90% full and therefore I consider myself an AUJ lover. I liked LotR better but I also like the LotR book much more than The Hobbit; even so there are things about the trilogy I donít care for. Still love those movies too though.

I look forward to all of DoS, including the additional material.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 1:20pm

Post #14 of 80 (537 views)
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true but I tend to disagree about what the larger audience wants [In reply to] Can't Post

There has been A LOT of outcry against what Jackson did to the Hobbit and how he stretched it like butter over too much bread. TORn is one of the few places that is mostly positive. Many other forums, and I frequent quite a few, the overall view is that Jackson should have stuck closer to the book, within the style of his own LOTR films, and not made things so OTT and in many cases with many people, unbelievable. So I disagree that the larger audience wanted the Hobbit expanded into what we are getting. I think had the larger audience been given a hobbit film in the same style as LOTR with a few minor additions everyone would have been quite happy. Your right the movie isn't perfect, but the difference is I DO care. Esp when it took as long as it did I should have been perfect

I am glad you liked the Hobbit as much as you did though, I'm just hoping I will like DOS better than AUJ which I thought was lacking and unfulfilling


Noria
Rohan

Jul 15 2013, 1:45pm

Post #15 of 80 (527 views)
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When I say that I don't care, I mean that what are to me the minor flaws of AUJ don't diminish my enjoyment of it. [In reply to] Can't Post

When I speak of a larger audience, I not talking about fans of the books and the even smaller segment of that fandom who post on message boards.

I am referring to the huge number of people who have seen and loved the movies but never have and never will read the books. They don't care about the tone of the book or changes to the plot, as long as they like the movie. Many did, despite the critics, and that is the audience that matters to the studio.

I am truly sorry that some of you didn't like AUJ but it seems like to me that DoS will be more of the same. I suspect that there will be more additional material, more new characters and situations and bigger action sequences. The tone will probably be darker though.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 15 2013, 1:52pm

Post #16 of 80 (533 views)
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On Radagast [In reply to] Can't Post

We've seen from the latest Vlog that Radagast is going to be back and still covered in bird crap. So, I have no reassurance to offer you on that note.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jul 15 2013, 1:55pm

Post #17 of 80 (527 views)
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I think my big problem is this, [In reply to] Can't Post

when it comes to watching films, there are people whos first prority is the dialogue, there are people whos first priority is the story, my first priority are the visuals, ie if my imagination is satisfyed or not. The story and dialogue come a very close second to the way a film looks. I notice landscapes and costumes and small details like wigs. Its part of my real life job to do so, I also learn stuff pictorially rather than being taught through reading. So I grew up on Tolkiens books, and the thing that captured my imagination probably as much as the words, were Tolkiens own drawings, the ones he did for the Hobbit I find haunting and charming, they make me imagine The Hobbit inhabits the world in the drawings, so the Trolls look like the pictures, the Elven Hall and the trees look like the drawings too. Not that its a 2 dimensional world of course, but its the atmosphere of the drawings, its very powerful.
So when I heard about the making of the film, for years I imagined that like LOTR perfectly reflected my imagined Middle Earth, so would The Hobbit. PJ captured LOTR for me absolutely perfectly, so for example, Minas Tirith was the real Minas Tirith from the book. But when I saw the design of the Dwarves I got a sinking feeling all was not how I imagined, and I got disappointed from there on in. When I saw the film, apart from Bagend, it was nothing like I imagined, I really disliked everything a LOT. It just seemed like LOTR lite rehashed with obviously NZ landscape shoehorned in. I found it extremely unsubtle and garish. and thats why I cant build up much enthusiasm, its failed my imagination test.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Jul 15 2013, 1:55pm)


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 15 2013, 1:55pm

Post #18 of 80 (536 views)
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Let's try to avoid denigrating differing opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

When you say "some people just don't want to ruin things for them selves or have looked forward to these films for so long they refuse to see the bad choices made in production." or "Those who enjoyed that stuff or were able to overlook it I truly am happy you could, those who never really wanted the Hobbit as Tolkien wrote it and were content with Jackson's professional grade fan fiction inserted where it wasn't in the original story and liked it I'm happy for you too." it's inevitable that others will take exception because you are maligning their opinions.

You are perfectly welcome to express YOUR feelings about the movies but you have no idea why someone else might like or dislike the movie and we won't tolerate those type of dismissive comments. Please confine your remarks to your own reactions and feelings. Further comments like this will be removed.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 1:58pm

Post #19 of 80 (522 views)
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And a great many people who saw the film [In reply to] Can't Post

either thought it was merely "ok", "forgettable" or "horrible", "alright but could have been better".... I've heard all those responses from many people about AUJ. Personally I just feel if they had stuck closer to the style of LOTR and kept closer to the source material, the films honestly IMO, would have been better received overall by everyone.

its all personal taste but I really don't think it was as well received as people are trying to say.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 15 2013, 2:01pm

Post #20 of 80 (524 views)
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Well received or not [In reply to] Can't Post

is a matter of opinion, so no one is right or wrong. There's no point in arguing about the accuracy of an opinion.


Noria
Rohan

Jul 15 2013, 2:08pm

Post #21 of 80 (490 views)
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Yet AUJ made over a billion dollars. [In reply to] Can't Post

Even if that amount fell short of expectations, it's still a lot of money.

Since the critical response was not really great, part of that at least must have been due to word of mouth.

I don't think anecdotal evidence proves anything at all. I could tell you that of the nine people with whom I saw AUJ, only one was lukewarm and he doesn't care for that kind of movie/book anyway. The rest loved it. I could mention the other people I've spoken to who liked the movie.. But it's meaningless.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 2:09pm

Post #22 of 80 (518 views)
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let me say [In reply to] Can't Post

there are plenty of people on this forum who have openly said everything I said they said... Posters have said they never really wanted the Hobbit as Tolkien wrote it, posters have said there were things they wish were done differently but yet praise everything about the film or openly say they can overlook bad decisions, There are also those who have posted they will like whatever Peter Jackson does no matter how he changes things. I've read all those types of comments here, but yet I point out those opinions and get called out for it.

I'm merely pointing out what others have said about the films and their opinions of it. Maybe they shouldn't have said those things . because as far as I am concerned once they say them its ok to use their comments. Just like mine are ok for anyone else to point out. I didn't say anything negative about their opinions and they are more than welcome to them. Just like I am welcome to mine I don't see where and TOS were violated in anything I said in that post. Sorry if someone didn't like what I had to say and maybe feels guilty about it, but thats what forums are about posting your opinion My opinion just happened to include many of the opinions posted on this very site.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 15 2013, 2:12pm

Post #23 of 80 (523 views)
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No. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just stick to your opinions. Read what I wrote - you are mischaracterizing what some people are saying. I'm done with this conversation in public - you are free to continue it via PM.


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jul 15 2013, 2:14pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2013, 2:12pm

Post #24 of 80 (484 views)
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I never said anyone was right or anyone was wrong just pointing out that not everyone or even the majority felt AUJ was what many think it was [In reply to] Can't Post

but yet it is ok to argue back at me how great the film was and how well it was received?


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 15 2013, 2:17pm

Post #25 of 80 (490 views)
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Stop. [In reply to] Can't Post

I get that you feel it is necessary to "correct" differing opinions. Try to contribute something positive instead of contradicting what others say in order to maintain what you perceive as a balanced commentary.

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