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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Will we see Sauron ???
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W1tchK1nG
The Shire


Jul 9 2013, 11:36pm

Post #1 of 36 (1207 views)
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Will we see Sauron ??? Can't Post

Soo , I'm wondering will we see Sauron in his physical form in The Hobbit There and Back Again ??? i'm not talking about that cloudy shadow that we saw in AUJ !!! more like the Sauron in Lotr prologue in The Great Battle of the Last Alliance , I think he was cool !!! I know that during that battle he "died" but as he plays quite a big role as PJ says I think we will see him somehow !!! So What do you think guys about all this Wink Laugh ?????


Elizabeth
Valinor


Jul 9 2013, 11:39pm

Post #2 of 36 (598 views)
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Hope not! [In reply to] Can't Post

The unseen villain is scarier than a visualized one, IMO. And the Necromancer doesn't actually appear in the book at all -- when they went to Dol Guldur he had already fled.








Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Jul 10 2013, 12:16am

Post #3 of 36 (503 views)
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I don't mind if we see him [In reply to] Can't Post

As long as he is frightening and mysterious.


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Jul 10 2013, 12:19am

Post #4 of 36 (553 views)
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That would coincide with the canon better [In reply to] Can't Post

But if they do show him, I hope he sends shivers down my spine. I'm confident in Benedict Cumberbatch's performance. I saw him as Khan in Star Trek, and I thought he was scary. The only thing was the hair, it reminded me of Dean Venture, a character from the Venture Bros. If they have to show the Necromancer, I hope they don't give Cumberbatch the same hairstyle. The Necromancer is supposed to be an evil deity.


xxxyyy
Rohan

Jul 10 2013, 2:16am

Post #5 of 36 (475 views)
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Physical from wouldn't make sense. Maybe in a flashback? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm praying to see a flashback of Sauron with the elves, forging the Rings and all that stuff...

I sure hope they leave him as he really is, powerless.
He is totally powerless without the Ring.

http://energyfromthorium.com/


Subaruman
Bree


Jul 10 2013, 3:10am

Post #6 of 36 (490 views)
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It wouldn't line up with PJ's LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

"Sauron has regained much of his former strength. He cannot yet take physical form, but his spirit has lost none of its potency."

- Saruman in PJ's FotR

"Here is a book very unsuitable for dramatic or semi-dramatic representation. If that is attempted, it needs more space, a lot of space."

- J.R.R. Tolkien, 1956


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 10 2013, 6:31am

Post #7 of 36 (474 views)
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We have and will see him [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ has said Sauron is in the next movie for sure during the Sneak Peek early in the year. We know Cumberbatch is doing mo-cap for him so he must certainly be showing up.

I know PJ wants to show a more interactive Sauron since he almost had Aragorn fight him in ROTK. He can stay in line with LOTR and show him very easily I think. The Nazgul are non-physical but you can see them in clothing or armor though. Sauron will be a spirit too but I'll bet on him getting a different look than FOTR. He needs to be smaller and more creepy. Some armor and robes similar to the Nazgul would look good. I would really like to see him get a cool helmet or headpiece. It would be awesome if he had two flaming eyes like the one on top of Bara-dur!


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Jul 10 2013, 7:22am

Post #8 of 36 (419 views)
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. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"Sauron has regained much of his former strength. He cannot yet take physical form, but his spirit has lost none of its potency."

- Saruman in PJ's FotR



Bingo. PJ isn't going to contradict his LoTR movies to this large of a degree. We know he lost his physical form in the prologue to FoTR, was spoken of being unable to regain his physical form in FoTR, and we never saw him take a physical form in any of the 3 LoTR films.

In the first Hobbit film all we saw was a shadowy outline, which was basically the essence of Sauron in a non-physical form that the local inhabitants of the surrounding land began to call The Necromancer. There is absolutely no reason to believe Peter Jackson is dumb enough create a physically formed Necromancer/Sauron and completely contradict so much of the work he's already done.


W1tchK1nG
The Shire


Jul 10 2013, 8:47am

Post #9 of 36 (402 views)
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or [In reply to] Can't Post

maybe he will appear as Annatar like in the ROTK deleted scenes !!! no ? i would be very much interested to see that!!! Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2013, 9:24am

Post #10 of 36 (482 views)
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It has been confirmed in the recent EMPIRE magazine that ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Very near to the start of the film (perhaps even the prologue) Gandalf works out who the Necromancer really is. Plus, we also get to see Cumberbatch's mo-cap in the next film. I guess this is more than a shadowy figure we saw in AUJ, since that could easily be done with CGI. Since they're using mo-capping, I'd hope for something a little more elaborate.

Coming soon! The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.




Arandir
Gondor


Jul 10 2013, 9:34am

Post #11 of 36 (464 views)
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Anyone else remember ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... Games Workshop release's of the Necromancer model? It was created in conjunction with their 'Fall of the Necromancer' supplement.

Here's an image of that miniature:



At the time I thought he was amazing (and still do).

Here you have a character that can easily be in spiritual form, but still "wear" certain physical accessories to make him more corporeal and visible - much like the Ringwraiths.

I hope PJ had this model in mind when designing the Necromancer.

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog


malickfan
Gondor


Jul 10 2013, 11:28am

Post #12 of 36 (369 views)
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Perhaps he is retconning his own dialogue? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Reply To
"Sauron has regained much of his former strength. He cannot yet take physical form, but his spirit has lost none of its potency."

- Saruman in PJ's FotR

Who knows perhaps Saruman is now referring to the Driving out of Sauron from Mirkwood-PJ has stated the two trilogies are intermitly linked, so perhaps he now feels a 60 year gap between Sauron's defeat and return makes more sense than 3.000 year long one...

The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Jul 10 2013, 12:09pm

Post #13 of 36 (362 views)
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i think [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Very near to the start of the film (perhaps even the prologue) Gandalf works out who the Necromancer really is. Plus, we also get to see Cumberbatch's mo-cap in the next film. I guess this is more than a shadowy figure we saw in AUJ, since that could easily be done with CGI. Since they're using mo-capping, I'd hope for something a little more elaborate.


That what you described is refered to the investigation of the tombs.
After them, Gandalf realizes who the Necromancer really is and shares his thoughts to Radagast. His reply we've seen in the latest blog -grave danger-
Would also fit the fact that the tombs should be quite early in the movie.


Eleniel
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2013, 12:51pm

Post #14 of 36 (337 views)
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Me, too! [In reply to] Can't Post

I like that design very much - has similarities with the Ringwraith design to forge a connection but is distinctive enough in its own right.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jul 10 2013, 12:51pm

Post #15 of 36 (337 views)
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Very cool-looking, that!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Jul 10 2013, 1:34pm

Post #16 of 36 (338 views)
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His main weapon will casting doubts in the hearts of his enemies [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess this is more than a shadowy figure we saw in AUJ, since that could easily be done with CGI.

Yes! I thought that too. I was very disappointed when I saw only this glimpse of him in AUJ. I thought THAT was the Benedict Cumberbatch credit of AUJ? A shadowy figure that didn't move except opening it's mouth and whisper something nobody could understand (perhaps something like "Radagast" but that's not confirmed is it?).

I hope we see him doing more in DOS and TABA. But I don't want him to do much more than perhaps trying to confuse/discourage Gandalf and the others like the Mouth Of Sauron did in ROTK or Sauron with showing Aragorn a picture of a dying Arwen. He has no physical power after he lost the Ring but he still can cast doubts in the hearts of his enemies. Especially Gandalf is vulnerable because he has these emotional connections to all the ones he protects. Perhaps Sauron tells Gandalf that he knows of his plan killing the dragon and helping the dwarves reclaiming their homeland. He won't know anything about Bilbo but he will know a lot about the Quest for Erebor. Perhaps we've got here the connection to Azog, Bolg and the Orcs?

Also it would be cool to have a connection to Saurons appearance in the FOTR prologue. Peter Jackson mentioned somewhere that his appearance at the Battle of the Last Alliance wasn't an armor it was his flesh. So Saurons "body" looked like a huge armor. I really hope that we'll see something of that. Perhaps a shadow that looks more like his FOTR self but being still a shadow. I loved his design and it would be cool to see something similar to it in TH.



"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Oleander Took
Rivendell


Jul 10 2013, 5:17pm

Post #17 of 36 (279 views)
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Was thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

around the same lines, Annatar is a possibility. Plus Benedict's picture was in that Make up&Hair dept wall in that Vlog, I know it's thin chance but maybe...

"There is nothing like looking, if you want to find something."


Rostron2
Gondor


Jul 10 2013, 5:21pm

Post #18 of 36 (290 views)
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I hope not. [In reply to] Can't Post

As we say in theater, less is more.

Of course, he might simply show up at Bilbo's door, with a rain cloud over his head:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Hldfy8KjCVs/TcGsy4wIDGI/AAAAAAAA_kQ/PQwyAyzf4MI/s1600/poltergeist%2Bkane.jpg


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 10 2013, 5:25pm

Post #19 of 36 (274 views)
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Saruman could have been referring to... [In reply to] Can't Post

after the battle/confrontation at dol-guldur.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Jul 10 2013, 6:00pm

Post #20 of 36 (292 views)
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I wouldn't mind... [In reply to] Can't Post

...something like this:



What do you think?

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''

(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jul 10 2013, 7:29pm)


W1tchK1nG
The Shire


Jul 10 2013, 6:03pm

Post #21 of 36 (267 views)
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yess !!! this is Anattar !!! am i right? [In reply to] Can't Post

this is what i was talking about !!! i would like to see him as annatar , although were is this pic from ??? Wink


Ereinion Nénharma
Lorien

Jul 10 2013, 6:07pm

Post #22 of 36 (258 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

...this is Annatar. I found it at Google Images by simple searching for ''Annatar''.

''Do not fear the shadows, for seeing them means light is near...''


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 10 2013, 7:06pm

Post #23 of 36 (253 views)
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I've always loved this picture [In reply to] Can't Post

In fact, I had it for my avatar for a while. It's a frighteningly beautiful depiction of Sauron as Annatar. Don't you just love how his eyes are the same as the "Eye" atop Barad-dur?

"...not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall.
As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them at last.
For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men,
it is bitter to receive." -Arwen Undómiel




Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 10 2013, 7:31pm

Post #24 of 36 (231 views)
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Image is way to big [In reply to] Can't Post

so it had to be removed, Ereinion. Feel free to resize it to the guidelines below (from our TORN FAQ in the Welcome section) and repost it within this discussion thread:

The specific guidelines for posting pictures within the message body of your post are as follows: the maximum size of any picture posted should be 525 wide x 400 pixels high (or a better measure is: 210,000 pixels squared - width x height), but no wider than 670 pixels. The maximum file size per picture should be 45k. The cumulative file size of all pictures in one post should not exceed 225k (5 pictures of the maximum filesize of 45k, 10 pictures of a filesize of 22.5k, etc.). These guidelnes apply to pictures hosted on other sites as well as to pictures posted as attachments to your post. For more detailed help on posting within a message body, check out Magpie's step-by-step TORn Image Posting Guide.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Jul 11 2013, 12:09am

Post #25 of 36 (177 views)
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That's really cool-looking [In reply to] Can't Post

The only thing I think needs to be done is to replace the green with black, maybe even giving it a crimson tint.

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