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What movies did you watch this weekend?
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Annael
Half-elven


Jul 9 2013, 2:24pm

Post #26 of 114 (412 views)
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have you seen the new S&S? [In reply to] Can't Post

With Dan Stevens as Edward Ferrars? That topped Emma's version for me.

I still prefer the 1995 P&P just because it shows so much more. The first proposal & its aftermath, for instance.

I also think many of us tend to like the first version of something most because it's the one we fell in love with first. Or something. I know none of the other versions of "Jane Eyre" can shake me from my conviction that the Timothy Dalton version is and will always be the best one. Or that any version of "Persuasion" can top the Amanda Root-Ciaran Hinds movie.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2013, 3:36pm

Post #27 of 114 (413 views)
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funny, i have a totally different take on the two [In reply to] Can't Post

 
(preface: i saw the 1995 version first)

hands down, i think the 1995 version better captures the spirit of the book and all its particulars: the wit, the social commentary, the character studies.

i absolutely love the visual lyricism of the 2005 version, and its capturing of a slower pace in the english countryside, but that, to me, is just a different flavor of the same theme in the 1995 version. joe wright's films are certainly visually stunning and enchanting.

i greatly dislike a few (and sadly prominent) things about the 2005 version.

1. kiera knighly's performance. the naturalism that she showed earlier in her career is giving way to a kind of distracting self-awareness. she's a definite physical presence, due to her natural energy, but that's not the same thing as acting. this self-awareness, where she seems to be "acting" to me, is most noticeable in "the duchess," but it's also present in "p&p.'

2. joe wright's and the screenwriter's (also joe wright?) amputation of the depth and layers of the novel into a simple (and slightly cliched) romance. quite a lot of other cliches to boot. i think the story and the actors deserved better.

3. joe wright's constant focus on kiera knightly / her face. he pretty much does this in all his films with her. i get the feeling he's sort of besotted with her beauty, and we wind up getting an imbalanced product. sort of the way (in "love, actually") the andrew lincoln character (who is in love with his best friend's fiancee, played by kiera knightly) takes a video reel with tons of close-ups and over-focusing on the fiancee, at her wedding to the best friend.



re mrs. bennet in the 1995 version... yes alison steadman is decidedly shrill, and even though i loved (and still love) the 1995 version, her character irritated me greatly. but the more i saw it, the more i appreciated her performance in particular. she rather embodies what an unschooled mind can turn into, and what marriages can become. nevertheless, part of her dissolution arises from having a real concern over the fates of her daughters. mr. bennet may be much easier to be around (and i find him charming), but for almost all their marriage, he has been belittling her concerns for their daughters' future. he may be witty, but he ignores a very real problem. their dynamic is most interesting.


so glad we have many versions of these films to enjoy and discuss.


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo

(This post was edited by Maciliel on Jul 9 2013, 3:39pm)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 9 2013, 5:06pm

Post #28 of 114 (402 views)
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noooooo! [In reply to] Can't Post

(Smiles)


For me, the Kiera Knightly version showed the Bennett's home to be more of a farm and more rustic then the feel of the book makes them out to be. And, importantly, I feel that Mr. Bennet and Mrs. Bennett are more loving then the book makes them out to be. Mr. Bennett is too smart for his wife, and frequently makes fun of her without her realizing it. He does not, cannot, respect her. This doesn't come across in the Kira Knightley version to me. It's one of the prime things that Mr. Bennet doesn't want to see happen to his daughter Lizzie. He doesn't want to see her in a marriage in which one partner doesn't respect the other one.
But tell me, didn't Colin Firth look good in his puffy shirt! HeartLaugh

Permanent address: Into the West






Patty
Immortal


Jul 9 2013, 5:10pm

Post #29 of 114 (384 views)
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I watched a few of the inspector Alleyn mysteries [In reply to] Can't Post

Including the pilot for the episode which was entitled Artists in Crime,
where inspector Alleyn first meets Agatha Troy. Enjoyable crime mystery series from the 80s.

Permanent address: Into the West






Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


Jul 9 2013, 6:29pm

Post #30 of 114 (395 views)
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Noooooooo!! Part II [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue

Here is a nice article on the different incarnations of Mrs. Bennett.

Here is a snippet:


Quote
Austen represents Mrs. Bennet’s parental weaknesses in a fairly conventional way, as the stuff of comedy. Austen is dealing here with a known trope of the period. Thomas Gisborne, a conduct writer whom Austen admired (30 August 1805), writing in 1797, deplores “a scheming eagerness” of parents “respecting the settlement of their daughters in marriage” (388) and, more specifically, warns that “the forward advances and studied attentions of the mother to young men of fortune whom she wishes to call her sons-in-law, are often in the highest degree distressing to her daughters as well as offensive to the other parties; and in many cases actually prevent attachments, which would otherwise have taken place” (392-93). Pride and Prejudice presents a comic enactment of this generalization. Despite the fact that she has made their marriages “the business of her life,” as Roger Gard says, “Mrs. Bennet’s behaviour has almost cost both her older daughters their future husbands” (116). A third daughter—her favorite—is affected by her bungling attempts to marry them all off. Given the middle-class mores of the period, she jeopardizes Lydia’s marriageability in endangering her respectability.


For the record, my favorite is the 1995 A&E series. Smile



I am SMAUG! I kill when I wish! I am strong, strong, STRONG!
My armor is like tenfold shields! My teeth like swords! My claws, spears!
The shock of my tail, a thunderbolt! My wings, a hurricane! And my breath, death!


elaen32
Gondor


Jul 9 2013, 9:17pm

Post #31 of 114 (377 views)
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I agree Maciliel [In reply to] Can't Post

The 1995 version is a series, not a film, so is bound to be different in tone. I prefer it because it includes more of the story and the characters are more in keeping with the book and their behaviour with the mores of the time. None of the Bennetts, not even Lydia, would have contemplated wandering about the countryside in their night clothes as KK does towards the end of the film!
True, Mrs B as acted by Alison Steadman is a bit OTT- she was my one fly in the ointment when I watched it- she was just too silly. There had been a previous BBC production of P&P in 1981, which was the first that I saw, which was much more stiff and starchy in it's portrayal of the characters, so I think the 1995 is my favourite!


Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work



Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2013, 9:39pm

Post #32 of 114 (375 views)
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re alison steadman [In reply to] Can't Post

 
yes, that was my take for many viewings for a few years. but i realized that i disliked the portrayal because i found her so personally irritating.... but i also came to acknowledge... great varda! there +are+ really people like that. whom i would really find irritating.

i've come to tolerate her in a warm fashion, as elizabeth / jennifer ehle does. now she cracks me up.

i +loved+ the performance by the actor who played lady catherine de bourgh in that production. for all that i enjoy judy dench's work in general, her portrayal did not have the element of unintentional silliness that the 1995 version's did. i thought it was a superb performance.

another standout is her foil, david bamber (who played mr. collins). that guy has +range+. to see what i mean, check him out as cicero in "rome." one of my favorite parts of that series is the times the party is gathered at rosings and lady catherine is speaking, and mr. collins thinks it's an opportune moment to say something in a fawning manner -- but ooops! -- lady catherine isn't done yet, and mr. collins forcibly puts a finger to his lips to beat back his words. it cracks me up every time i see it.

i haven't seen the 1981 version all the way through yet (and i +own+ it). i find it rather stilted, and i did not like david rintoul's portrayal of darcy.

cheers : )

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


elaen32
Gondor


Jul 9 2013, 9:47pm

Post #33 of 114 (371 views)
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Mr Collins.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, he's so oleaginous ( I like that word) as portrayed by David Bamber. He makes you want to cringe and hit him at the same time I find! I like Lady Catherine's grand theme too whenever she appears on the scene.


Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work



Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2013, 9:50pm

Post #34 of 114 (377 views)
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i will say [In reply to] Can't Post

 
one of the things i +loved+ about the 2005 version is claudie blakley's portrayal of charlotte.

she's also one with range, and she's an actor for whom i would watch something just to see her in it. she's been in gosford park, lark rise to candleford, and cranford as well,


cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 9 2013, 10:25pm

Post #35 of 114 (369 views)
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Chiming in to agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

I prefer the 1995 version too, as being closer to the book and more accurate in the family relationships.

Clearly Mr. Bennet married unwisely - probably for money, as he is a gentleman and all her family is in "trade". He was probably an impoverished minor landowner without any prospects for a genteel marriage, so he married a merchant's daughter who had a decent portion and an ambition to marry "up", and chances are they've been relying on her money to supplement the estate income to support their large family. I've always assumed that she was very much like Lydia when she was young, and Mr. Bennet has dealt with the results of his mercenary bargain by withdrawing and keeping an ironic detachment from her excesses, and avoids exhausting conflict with her by refusing to perform the proper duties of a father - he tends to belittle his younger girls instead of correct them, he allows Ms Bennet to scheme even to the point of endangering Jane's health, he speaks of and to his family improperly in public, and lets Lydia run wild - which leads to even more disastrous consequences. One can sympathize with him and be amused by his commentary on others, but he is much to blame because he won't bother to make the effort to run counter to his wife or discipline his children. The girls are thus subject to a vulgar, manipulative mother and a passive father, a very unfortunate combination.

Given this family dynamic, one can easily see why both Jane and Elizabeth are determined to marry for love, a thing which was not really approved of among the upper classes who traditionally married for family alliances and/or monetary advantage. One must have either respectable birth or money, and preferably both, in order to marry "well", and marrying well was extremely important. Love was considered an indulgence, and a rather middle-class one too, as letting oneself be carried away by emotions was definitely frowned upon. But Jane and Lizzie, as much as they love their family, can't face a future involving a marriage of "convenience".

I didn't feel that the 2005 version showed the family disadvantages clearly enough, especially the problems caused by the abdication of responsibility by Mr. Bennet, and those are important because Darcy actually had reason to be reluctant to marry into that family, and it's key to his character to see that. Both Darcy and Lizzie had some justice on their side, and neither of them was entirely in the wrong, which makes their relationship an equal one in which both must overcome misconceptions and make concessions for each other before they can really value each other properly.

And I also love Lady Catherine in this version. She gives a perfect reading of one of my favorite ridiculous lines of all time: "If I had ever learnt, I should be a true proficient". In addition to the surface absurdity, being able to play an instrument or sing was an essential "accomplishment" for a woman of quality, so she's admitting to a social lack and being arrogant about it at the same time. Lizzie's not the only one with obnoxious and impolite relatives! Laugh

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



Annael
Half-elven


Jul 9 2013, 10:34pm

Post #36 of 114 (373 views)
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Have you seen this Patty? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...ges-London-lake.html

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


elaen32
Gondor


Jul 9 2013, 10:35pm

Post #37 of 114 (365 views)
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Actually... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Mrs Bennett is described as being "without fortune". Her brother Mr Gardiner was "self made" through trade, but not that rich. However, Mrs Bennett was supposed to have been very pretty in her youth and I think Mr Bennett married her for that oldest of reasons- he really fancied her!! Not love, but lust- he married unwisely and, in the nature of relationships based on this sort of premise, he soon tired of her! Whichever way, Mr Bennett totally abrogates his responsibilities as far as his wife and daughters are concerned!


Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work



Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2013, 11:18pm

Post #38 of 114 (357 views)
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I bet I have... [In reply to] Can't Post

my local PBS station ran a whole series of Jane Austen programs that I'd never seen before. None of them blew me away but I bet the S&S with Dan was one of those.

Interestingly, the Guthrie Theater (local theater with national reputation) is doing P&P right now with Vincent Kartheiser as Mr Darcy. I loathed him in Mad Men and I would love to see the play just to watch him.

As I said, the 1995 version of P&P was my first and I was mad, crazy in love with it. So I am probably in a small minority to let the later version win my affections.


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TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by Magpie on Jul 9 2013, 11:18pm)


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2013, 11:23pm

Post #39 of 114 (362 views)
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Colin looked good in his puffy shirt [In reply to] Can't Post

Matthew made me weak in the knees.

Your point? ;-)

I think this might come down to which is a better adaptation and which is a better movie.

I haven't read the books and I either love or don't love the shows made from the books. I don't care how faithful they are.

And to be fair, the Firth P&P is not a movie. But I think the Knightly P&P flows better, is more tightly edited, and is just a more dynamic and compelling story to watch. I got (wait for it...) a little bored watching the miniseries after watching the movie a few times.

But I'm also in a minority that loves Kiera Knightly in almost everything she does. And I love her Elizabeth.


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Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2013, 11:26pm

Post #40 of 114 (358 views)
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Have you seen Down from the Mountain? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/...wn_from_the_Mountain

If you like the soundtrack, this is a must see, in my opinion. There's a CD that goes with it with more music like OBWOT.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Patty
Immortal


Jul 9 2013, 11:46pm

Post #41 of 114 (360 views)
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I think I read where Mrs. Bennett actually did bring money into the marriage [In reply to] Can't Post

Although not so much as to be anything more than just an aid. Mr. Bennett was a gentleman, as Lizzie described him, when saying she was a gentleman's daughter. So I see them as living above the level that they lived in in the 2005 movie, and much more as Longbourne was portrayed in the 1995 series.

Permanent address: Into the West






Patty
Immortal


Jul 9 2013, 11:55pm

Post #42 of 114 (355 views)
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Matthew McFayden? [In reply to] Can't Post

Or Matthew Crawley?
Wink

But I digress, which is my wont to do....

It's largely a question of the fact that the miniseries had much more time to breathe. . Pace has to be ramped up when you only have a couple of hours to tell the basic part of the story, and that makes for a product which is, perhaps an enjoyable movie but inferior Austen. It has, by necessity, to leave out that which is essentially her trademark.

By the way, Dan Stevens looked pretty good in his puffy shirt in the newer sense and sensibility too. Those two versions are about equal in my esteem.

Permanent address: Into the West






Patty
Immortal


Jul 9 2013, 11:58pm

Post #43 of 114 (348 views)
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Hahahaha! [In reply to] Can't Post

This is the best. Another reason for me to journey across the pond to take a look see.Heart

Permanent address: Into the West






Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2013, 11:58pm

Post #44 of 114 (359 views)
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I love how we all keep using the word 'esteem' :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

And it was Macfadyen...

Dan Stevens does nothing for me.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide

(This post was edited by Magpie on Jul 9 2013, 11:59pm)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 10 2013, 12:02am

Post #45 of 114 (348 views)
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Well he sure does nothing for me the way he looks now! [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you seen a recent picture of him as he has remodeled himself to be in some movie or other? Dyed his hair darker and is too many pounds lighter. He really has given up his, as someone described, it God-given good looks.

Permanent address: Into the West






Patty
Immortal


Jul 10 2013, 12:28am

Post #46 of 114 (349 views)
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I got to thinking about this, magpie… [In reply to] Can't Post

I think one of the Dan's biggest assets is his voice. Try listening to him talk sometimes without looking at him. He does have such a wonerful voice.

Permanent address: Into the West






Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Jul 10 2013, 12:34am

Post #47 of 114 (349 views)
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begging to politely disagree a bit... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
... but with some agreement also... : )

yes, there are greater challenges with a shorter timeframe, but that does not preclude the possibility of bringing austen fully into two to three hours.

ang lee did it superbly with "sense and sensibility" and roger mitchell did it sublimely with "persuasion."

so, it is possible. i think it just takes a particular alignment in the heavens of director, writer, actors, and creative staff.

cheers : )


.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Patty
Immortal


Jul 10 2013, 12:44am

Post #48 of 114 (341 views)
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You know, you're right... [In reply to] Can't Post

Those did do a better job of putting the stamp of Austen's work on their productions. But perhaps that was not what Wright wanted to do. Perhaps he was just trying to film a love story. I wonder if he thought that was what younger, more modern audiences would want. At any rate, I don't think he ever viewed his movie as being in competition with the miniseries. His movie production sponsored an airing of the 1995 version on TV, with trailers for their own movie version running during the commercials.

Permanent address: Into the West






silneldor
Half-elven


Jul 10 2013, 12:45am

Post #49 of 114 (333 views)
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We have that too\\ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

''Sam put his ragged orc-cloak under his master's head, and covered them both with the grey robe of Lorien; and as he did so his thoughts went out to that fair land, and to the Elves, and he hoped that the cloth woven by their hands might have some virtue to keep them hidden beyond all hope in this wilderness of fear...But their luck held, and for the rest of that day they met no living or moving thing; and when night fell they vanished into the darkess of Mordor.'' - - -rotk, chapter III

Faerie contains many things besides elves and fays and besides dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants or dragons; it holds the seas, the sun, the moon, the sky; and the earth, and all things that are one in it: tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted."
— J.R.R. Tolkien














Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2013, 12:54am

Post #50 of 114 (343 views)
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I think she must have had something. [In reply to] Can't Post

But not, obviously, what could be called a fortune. The problem was, they had a large family and it wasn't enough to provide decent dowries for their five girls, or for the family to live on if Mr. Bennett died, since they would then lose the estate income to Mr. Collins. Austen explored that possible outcome in Sense and Sensibility, where the family lost the estate income and were forced to live on their mother's small portion, which necessitated not only strict economies but accepting charity from family members. Most likely the Bennett family would have had to rely on Mrs. Bennett's brother to a great extent, and the girls would have been lucky to receive offers from "gentlemen" and would likely have married into the lower classes if they married at all.

Mrs. Bennett's dowry was modest, probably, but enough to supplement the estate income and live respectably on the combined amount. If each of the girls has 100 pounds a year, that means that there is enough money invested to bring 500 pounds in interest annually, plus whatever is reserved for Mrs. Bennett, and the income from the estate. As Jane says, they are not very poor, just too poor to attract anyone of greater position - those of equally limited financial status would need to marry wives with respectable dowries, and so would be unlikely to offer.

If Mr. Bennett had fallen in love with Mrs. Bennett, a girl of socially inferior station and married her without any dowry at all and their marriage turned out as it did, Jane and Lizzie would be much more likely to be wary of a "love match" than to determine that was the only kind they could tolerate. And if their marriage was an impulsive one which both regretted, they likely would have been more careful to curb Lydia. It must have been an arranged marriage which was seen to have some advantage to both parties, and trading supplemental income for a step up in society is the most likely reason.

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."


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