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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
What's the opening scene of DOS likely to be?

The Shire

Jul 8 2013, 7:12pm

Post #1 of 18 (993 views)
What's the opening scene of DOS likely to be? Can't Post

Apologies if there’s already been a thread on this, but what’s the opening scene in DOS going to be?

The dwarves going towards Beorn’s house would seem to me to be logical, but something tells me PJ is not going to go this way. I have no doubt PJ will seek to present Beorn’s bees as being at least five times as big as they are in Tolkien, because he’s PJ, and that’s what he does, but in end they’re not killer bees. Not spectacular or dramatic enough.

Smaug? - no, he doesn’t have anything to do. The White Council? - no, the film is ‘The Hobbit’, however loosely adapted. The Ringwraiths making their way out of the tombs at High Fells? - hardly. If it’s anything with Azog in it, then I am going home anyway.

My guess is that he’s decided to go for the flashback of Gandalf getting the key and map from Thrain at Dol Guldur. I don’t know why Thrain would still be having the key and map without having them confiscated, but it’s possible that torture techniques were still in their infancy then. Maybe a Chinese burn and some serious tickling would have been enough to drive Thrain beyond the borders of insanity. Who are we to judge?

If I’m right, then expect a really blinding six or seven minutes of action with PJ throwing all manner of bells and whistles in. Should be fun.

After that, the title of the film comes up with the dwarves making their way to Beorn’s house. Gandalf is bound to have to have to come up with some exposition here, including the fact that Beorn is not to be messed around with in any way, shape or form. Thorin listens to this, and being Thorin, decides to disregard it.

Accordingly, when Beorn and Thorin actually do meet, and Beorn innocently enquires why they’re heading towards Mirkwood, Thorin puts his best northern accent on and says 'What is it to you? Our business is our own, bee-master. I carry Orcrist, and I won’t hesitate to stab you in the knee with it, tha knows....’, to Gandalf’s increasing despair. After that, it all goes rapidly downhill with fart and belch gags ad nauseam. I give it till the second chorus of 'Blunt the Knives’ when Beorn actually changes shape and becomes a bear with serious dwarvicidal tendencies. That would fit in with what we actually saw in the trailer.

OK, it may not happen quite like that, but I can dream. Good call, or bad call?

'But ere long it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way'


Jul 8 2013, 7:25pm

Post #2 of 18 (547 views)
I always thought [In reply to] Can't Post

That the opening scene of DoS would somehow involve Beorn and his torture scene with Bolg(?). But after reading the bit from the Empire magazine where it's stated that it will open somewhere familiar but unexpected, i'm guessing it will either be Bree or Moria.

I don't think we'll get another "fasten your seatbelts" opening scene similar to TTT and AUJ to some extent though. I think PJ will keep that for the opening scene of TABA (which, i assume, will be Smaug heading to Laketown and attack it)

But yeah, it's just speculation on my part, and i'll most likely be completely off the markWink


Jul 8 2013, 7:38pm

Post #3 of 18 (511 views)
I predict [In reply to] Can't Post

The film will begin with new footage of the Battle of Azanulbizar, showing Thrain's plight thereafter and how Gandalf came to acquire a key. After the title card, I'm hoping for a tracking shot from the Misty Mountains, down to the Doors of Durin, through Moria, and out of the Dimrill Gate, at which point the two sides are deployed and about to fight. Would give us a great chance to hear a variation of the wonderful Dwarrowdelf theme.

(This post was edited by Shagrat on Jul 8 2013, 7:39pm)


Jul 8 2013, 7:39pm

Post #4 of 18 (502 views)
Bilbo flashback to the Shire [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps a scene with young Bilbo watching Gandalf's fireworks with Drogo and Primula. Definitely scenes of hobbity comfort. Then Bilbo wakes up all uncomfortable in the eagles' eyrie, wishing "not for the last time" that he was back home.

"Bother burgling and everything to do with it! I wish I was at home in my nice hole by the fire, with the kettle just beginning to sing!" It was not the last time that he wished that!

But I am afraid he was not thinking much of the job, but of what lay beyond the blue distance, the quiet Western Land and the Hill and his hobbit-hole under it.

"Personally I am tired of the whole affair. I wish I was back in the West in my own home, where folk are more reasonable..."

...he sat himself down with his back to a tree, and not for the last time fell to thinking of his far-distant hobbit-hole with its beautiful pantries. He was deep in thoughts of bacon and eggs and toast and butter..

Revenge is a dish best served with pinto beans and muffins.

Tol Eressea

Jul 8 2013, 8:10pm

Post #5 of 18 (471 views)
Smaug's childhood [In reply to] Can't Post

in the north. Parental abuse, bad companies and eventually an inability to fit in the dragon society, caused him to become the bully of ME...stealing and robbing other peoples property.

The film HAS his name on it.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

The Shire

Jul 8 2013, 8:17pm

Post #6 of 18 (396 views)
I like that.... [In reply to] Can't Post

'Why can't you be more like Glaurung?'


'But ere long it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way'

Tol Eressea

Jul 8 2013, 8:31pm

Post #7 of 18 (363 views)
Maybe they'll even show that his father had a drinking problem, his mother abandoned him at an early age [In reply to] Can't Post

he had a crack habit.... all the good juicy backstory stuff that Tolkien never wrote into it. Jackson can make it SO dramatic and fulfilling... It will be great Tongue

on a serious note It will probably start with Thrain and the key and map being given over to Gandalf somehow as a flashback, maybe even showing why Thrain went missing during the dwarf and orc battle.

(This post was edited by sinister71 on Jul 8 2013, 8:33pm)

Tol Eressea

Jul 8 2013, 8:43pm

Post #8 of 18 (391 views)
Would be lovely, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

I fear it's wishful thinking, Darkstone. The most we can hope for is to see some of that in the AUJ EE, though I doubt we'll be so lucky...Unsure

"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort

The Shire

Jul 8 2013, 9:00pm

Post #9 of 18 (373 views)
Tolkien did write a backstory... [In reply to] Can't Post

He described Smaug as a 'wicked' worm...

This line has always puzzled me. Wicked compared to what, exactly? Because he wouldn't frolic by the sea? I'm afraid I'm right with Smaug on this one...


'But ere long it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way'

Tol Eressea

Jul 8 2013, 9:02pm

Post #10 of 18 (365 views)
Glaurung lol, i had forgotten about him , yes the role model [In reply to] Can't Post

sinister, yes well, its in the appendices...Wink

It would make a great aprils fools day joke...now its too late.

Gandalf and thrain are the best contestants right now...

Though...a flashback to bilbos backstory perhaps will be left for the third film...

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

Tol Eressea

Jul 8 2013, 9:04pm

Post #11 of 18 (328 views)
smaug applying suncream! [In reply to] Can't Post


Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

Captain Salt
Tol Eressea

Jul 8 2013, 9:28pm

Post #12 of 18 (357 views)
Assuming it's the Thrain prolouge... [In reply to] Can't Post

- Open at Azanulbizar (or whatever they're calling it in the film) - different perspective of Thror's demise by Azog, with Thrain going mad with grief, running off - later, Gandy finds him wandering mindless in the dark of Moria; Thrain regains his composure long enough to give Gandy the map & key, mad Thrain runs off and is captured by Azog/orcs - brought into the inner sanctum of Dol Guldur where he's confronted with the ghastly Necromancer, his ultimate fate to be discovered by Gandalf over the course of the film.

- First scene proper finds Thorin & Co. making their toward the borders of Mirkwood, they're still being pursued by Azog's Orcs which will reach them by nightfall, Gandy mentions a potential place they can find shelter, agreed that we'll get mention that Beorn is a dangerous loner and not to be trifled with - they'll set him up as a character who could go either way, as either an enemy or an ally, but someone who is no friend of Orcs, and we're off to Beorn's house.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Jul 8 2013, 10:42pm

Post #13 of 18 (301 views)
Dwarves in Battle Suits [In reply to] Can't Post

Stomping on dragons...oh wait, that's Guillermo Del Toro's version.


Jul 8 2013, 10:53pm

Post #14 of 18 (295 views)
I'm guessing Thrain gandalf meeting [In reply to] Can't Post

So he can get the map and key

“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”


Jul 9 2013, 3:28am

Post #15 of 18 (225 views)
I think that's a pretty good idea [In reply to] Can't Post

And certainly the most natural way to begin, although I'm still mostly in the "Thrain enters Moria/Gandalf finds him" camp because I feel like PJ can't help but try to inject more tension into the second film opener. It could even be something to do with the Necromancer, but whatever it is I think it's most likely to be a flashback with lots of tension and brief snippets of action.

Who knows, maybe we'll even get a double dose of flashbacks - first Gandalf finding Thrain, then Bilbo imagining himself in the Shire only to wake up in the eyrie Crazy


Jul 9 2013, 1:52pm

Post #16 of 18 (167 views)
Do you mean Belladonna and Bungo? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you meant by *young* Bilbo (i.e. equivalent to a child) Drogo and Primula wouldn't have been born yet. So I suspect you meant Belladonna and Bungo (Bilbo's parents). Regardless, I think it's a great idea. We know Belladonna has been cast (as has young Bilbo). And it has been confirmed that a scene involving Old Tooks birthday party will be part of the AUJ extended edition prologue. I think it would work nicely as a dream sequence as well. Shame the Company didn't stop off with the Eagles!


Coming soon! The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.

(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jul 9 2013, 1:55pm)


Jul 9 2013, 2:44pm

Post #17 of 18 (145 views)
Whoops! [In reply to] Can't Post

Not the first mistake I've made, won't be the last.

DanielLB 1
Darkstone 0

Revenge is a dish best served with pinto beans and muffins.


Jul 9 2013, 2:51pm

Post #18 of 18 (196 views)
I like the idea of opening with Thrain-Map-Key. *book spoiler* [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems like the prologue to DoS is a perfect place for it (and maybe a quick review of Smaug's desolation could be fit in there - no the audience isn't stupid, but reminding them neatly and cleanly about what the movie is about doesn't hurt). I also think that whatever goes in the intro should set up the audience for the movie to come, and showing the finding of the key and map make the events at the back door of Erebor more of a focus.

I wonder if some elves could be involved in some level of the DG rescue - either being reported to by Gandalf after or helping there in some way? But I don't know about that because of this quote from FOTR: A Journey in the Dark: 'You speak of what you do not know when you liken Moria to the Stronghold of Sauron,' answered Gandalf. 'I alone of you have ever been in the dungeons of the Dark Lord, and only in his older and lesser dwelling in Dol Guldur'. Elves could be met along the way somehow, instead - and games may be played with fighting near DG or even along its walls vs. being in its dungeons, specifically. The only reason I mention elves at all is that having them shown in a helpful light at the beginning could make it all the more dramatic when they don't help Thorin and company later. I also think that the conflict between Thorin and Thranduil should be a pretty important part of DoS so having some hint of it in a prologue again sets the audience up for it. (Maybe the best thing to do is to have the elves refuse to help Gandalf - or refuse to follow him to the shadow of Dol Guldur because "they don't go that way since it is an evil place").

I almost wish that DoS could open with a view of the map turning into a skyview from the Eagles' perspective (that shows the path they must make from where they are to the Lonely Mountain). Since it can't, then it might be important to open with an attention-getter. The threat of Azog and his orcs based on memory from the last movie might not be enough, they may actually need to fight (and maybe at night so that the big bear shows up - and then they can find out later who that is somehow?). Beorn is known to hunt orcs and they are chasing Thorin's company. It isn't exactly what happened in the book but it doesn't seem too much of a stretch to me, at least.


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