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Yngwulff
Gondor
Jul 8 2013, 3:56am
Post #101 of 198
(998 views)
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Look at it from the point of view of never having read any Tolkien
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#1 It's almost impssible to make a judgement without seeing how the next two films will play out.
Right now all we have is conjecture based on 2 minutes of a teaser trailer.
#2 Aside from the incessant pursuit/chase wwhich should have been resolved in AUJ thus giving some sort of closure to the movie and the OTT spills falls and thrills, it was really good IMHO
Bilbo was excellent, the dwarves were great, the backstory was well done albeit with some minor changes, and I even enjoyed Raddy.
PJ is not just making these films to sate the lust for all things ME for just TORN and JRRT fans ...
I dunno maybe spills and thrills are what they think the general public and Tolkien movie only fans want ...
“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
(This post was edited by Yngwulff on Jul 8 2013, 3:59am)
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The Mitch King
Rohan
Jul 8 2013, 4:14am
Post #102 of 198
(980 views)
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#1 It's almost impssible to make a judgement without seeing how the next two films will play out.
Right now all we have is conjecture based on 2 minutes of a teaser trailer.
#2 Aside from the incessant pursuit/chase wwhich should have been resolved in AUJ thus giving some sort of closure to the movie and the OTT spills falls and thrills, it was really good IMHO
Bilbo was excellent, the dwarves were great, the backstory was well done albeit with some minor changes, and I even enjoyed Raddy.
PJ is not just making these films to sate the lust for all things ME for just TORN and JRRT fans ...
I dunno maybe spills and thrills are what they think the general public and Tolkien movie only fans want ...
I have always believed you should never judge what you don't know. I am blown away by people that think they know what DoS or TABA will be like! We have quotes from PJ in the Empire article saying the humor is mostly getting cut and that these next two films are more in the LOTR vibe. He also acknowledged that they tried to keep the children's story feel in AUJ but that they are not worried about that at this point now. Things are going to get quite heavy and frankly 2 minutes of unfinished bits is nothing to go off of. It's clear mostly everyone wants to see these movies and from my experience the non readers never dislike them. Imagine the story if you had never read the book! PJ is only trying to gives us the best and most exciting show he can. He worries about the film itself first and things like Comicon second. Sometimes peoples judgements on here, based off 1/3 of the whole, are more "over the top" than the scenes they dislike!
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Thranderz
Rohan
Jul 8 2013, 8:35am
Post #103 of 198
(950 views)
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I 110% agree with you and you've really hit the nail on the head for me. Although there was one or two problems I thought the film was fantastic. People who apparently know what the next two films will be like are assuming and guessing which isn't fair and they will all probably go to the opening night to watch the films 
I simply walked into Mordor.
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Yngwulff
Gondor
Jul 8 2013, 8:50am
Post #104 of 198
(939 views)
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Perhaps when we get all 3 together on EE and with commentary
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PJ will go thru and explain his rationale for the changes much like in LOTR.
People were going bonkers about some of the changes and omissions in LOTR too if you recall, and now most seem fine with it.
All the major parts of the story are there in AUJ with a few slight changes and I'd bet the will be in DOS and TABA as well.
I may be wrong, but I think Azog's pursuit of Thorin was stretched out after they decided to expand the series from 2 to 3 films to add 10 or 15 minutes so the film would end with their arrival on the east side of the mountains
I think film one of the original 2 film plan would have suited many Hobbit fans fancy more and had a better ending than the 3 film AUJ, BUT when its all said and done I think the overall 3 film premise watched as a whole will work out better
“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
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Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 12:18pm
Post #105 of 198
(928 views)
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those twilight films made millions...so what?
As for minorities, that is the case of torn, no doubt. Other places, things are different.
Yeah....people might not have liked phantom menace or been indifferent to it...somehow they still went and watch the other two...wonder why...i dont know, curiosity...
I think Tolkien would take issue with dwarves acting like video game characters , with ninja moves, and the ability to slice hundreds of orcs at a whim as if they are butter...
Plausibility , one of Lotr's major mottos for creating ME, is thrown out of the door for digital antics. Brilliant filmmaking.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 1:58pm
Post #106 of 198
(905 views)
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Box office draw means nothing when it comes to who liked the film and who didn't. It merely means that tickets were bought. Its not saying that because it sold this many tickets it must be a well liked film I know many people who bought tickets who left the theater thinking the movie was so-so or even terrible. Most all of those people have said they will probably wait for the next two films to come out on DVD and rent them because the felt the theater experience with AUJ was a waste of money.,
Also there is believable fantasy and then fantasy we got in AUJ. Where almost all the action sequences are so far fetched there is no possible way they could ever really happen. Completely unlike LOTR where the majority of action sequences could actually happen in a real world. Personally I thought LOTR was the perfect blend of fantasy and realism which worked. Sure Ents, trolls, wizards, and hobbits don't exist, but they were created in a way that was realistic and believable. Peter Jackson himself wanted everything to feel real. Like the places were real, that the events of the LOTR really happened. That IMO is what is lacking from the new Hobbit films.
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KingTurgon
Rohan
Jul 8 2013, 2:41pm
Post #107 of 198
(884 views)
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I loved the movie, only Jackson movie I have enjoyed more so far is ROTK. Haters gonna hate!
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DwellerInDale
Rohan
Jul 8 2013, 2:46pm
Post #108 of 198
(896 views)
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That seems to go against the way things unfolded
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The Hobbit: AUJ made its billion by having outstanding "legs", with many viewers going back for multiple viewings. In addition, its DVD sales have been outstanding. None of that would have happened if the film had turned the majority of people off. I remember some early news items stating how "concerned" the accountants at Warner Brothers must feel about AUJ's "underperforming", and one poster on this forum even suggested that the next 2 films might have to be canceled, but the film just kept on going.
Don't mess with my favorite female elf.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 8 2013, 2:54pm
Post #109 of 198
(887 views)
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I suppose the proof of that....
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.. will be the box office takings for the second film. If, as you say, lots of people went to the first film and didn't like it then they won't go again and takings will fall, as you seem to expect.
My guess is that the takings for DoS will be comparable or even higher. I was very struck by the apparent popularity of the Empire article. When a new issue of Empire comes out my local supermarket normally has two full piles of the magazine next to each other on the shelves, with perhaps 24 - 30 copies in each pile. The week this issue came out one pile was gone when I went in the the Friday, the other had about four copies left (one of which I bought). Now, maybe there was a supply problem, or someone hadn't stacked the shelves properly, or..... well, you name it - but I've not noticed that happening before except when something very eagerly anticipated comes out, and I reckon lots of people grabbed the magazine as soon as they saw it.
So there you have it. You didn't like the film and expect the next one to flop - or at least, to sell fewer tickets. I did like it and expect the next to equal AUJ or improve on its takings. Maybe you're right, maybe I am - time will tell! 
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 3:04pm
Post #110 of 198
(883 views)
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why are people called haters when...
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they point out what they felt are weak parts of the film? they point out that the story doesn't seem to fit with what Jackson already did with LOTR? When they say they don't like certain parts of the film? They offer alternatives which would have kept the story closer to the book and still kept everything in line with LOTR?
I have openly said there is much of AUJ I do not like. Doesn't make me a hater. I make no apologies for saying there are parts of the film I think suck.... I do say I love the parts of Jackson's film that mirrored the book or did so with some minor embellishment. But sadly those parts were far and few between all the OTT stuff that could have been dialed back just a bit and put into the same realistic tone that LOTR had. Many people wanted and can see these films being shot the same way LOTR was but Jackson chose to try and pioneer new technology instead of using methods that have worked for decades, Jackson chose to make drastic changes to the Hobbit story instead of trusting in Tolkien and the source material, Jackson chose to make these new films cartoonish and full of CGI instead of using miniatures and practical effects. Jackson's deviations are the majority of complaints I hear on the many forums I use, Alot of people like them, which I don't find any problem with. everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you liked the film I am totally happy for you... But everyone has an opinion, Even those who do not like the films as much as LOTR. Had Jackson stuck to the formula he used with LOTR I think everyone would have enjoyed AUJ. But HE chose not to do that, it was not the fans, not the people who liked the feel of LOTR, not the masses of general movie going fans. Jackson took it upon himself to deviate from what was proven and what worked. Some like it some don't, But to insinuate that because we voice our unsatisfactory opinion we hate. Completely out of line. I do not hate I merely do not like and as I have said now for the thousandth time I love the film when it stuck to the book with minor embellishment, I did not like it when Jackson deviated so far away from what the book was about, making his OTT action sequences and drastic story changes. Personally I don't see any hate, I see criticism and care. Because if we didn't care we wouldn't voice our opinions or state ways that Jackson could have stuck closer to the source material. Its just sad IMO that Jackson couldn't have found a way to make the Hobbit more like LOTR and show the care and love for the source material he showed with LOTR.
(This post was edited by sinister71 on Jul 8 2013, 3:10pm)
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 3:26pm
Post #111 of 198
(865 views)
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we'll just have to wait and see...
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on vacation I talked to 10 or 11 different friends who all like fantasy reading and films. Out of those 10, only 2 loved the Hobbit film, 1 or 2 thought it was alright and didn't feel one way or the other about it and like many here went with the changes, 3 thought it was ok but would have been "better if it stuck closer to the book", 1 hated the film, and the other 3 said they haven't seen it yet, because they heard from other friends (not me) that it sucked and wasn't worth wasting their money on. Out of those 10 the only 2, other than myself (which I'll go to the 5 dollar matinee) that said they are going to DOS, and those were the 2 who loved AUJ. The rest either said maybe or wait for blueray/DVD.... Plus in my line of work I talk to hundreds of people a week about television and movies and such many of those have said the film was ok, will "wait for the DVD for the next ones", very few of those I talk to with work have said they loved it. I think the box office will be about the same for DOS maybe slightly less but not by much, simply because we have fans of Jackson's we have fans of Tolkien and there are fans of the first film. But just from talking to as many people as I do and my love for Tolkien and Jackson's first trilogy, I don't think the love among the general public is as high as people who loved the film truly think it is. And maybe I just run across all the haters.
But I think the numbers will be close, I don't think higher but either the same or slightly less. Only time will tell
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Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 3:27pm
Post #112 of 198
(859 views)
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is the scourge of modern day geek culture.
I dont thik most people hate films, they appreciat them or they dont appreciate them...despise them, if they hit some nerves, or are so badly constructed or for the wrog reasons...
With fandom, like SW, it can get a little crazy.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
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Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 3:30pm
Post #113 of 198
(859 views)
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i dont think there is nearly the same passion concerning auj and dos as there was for Lotr.
Many oks and it was good, or its entertaining yeah...
Hardly the stuff of Legend
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
(This post was edited by Lusitano on Jul 8 2013, 3:30pm)
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Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 3:44pm
Post #115 of 198
(871 views)
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Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 3:45pm
Post #116 of 198
(852 views)
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many people in this day and age would just rather buy the blueray/DVD and sit home and watch the film on their 70 inch HD/ or HD 3D televisions than go to the theater where everything is so expensive. Large soda $6, large popcorn $5.50, Candy minimum $3, plus ticket sales of over $10 a piece. All lowball prices. So a family of 4 is looking at a minimum of $50 to $70 just to go see one film. More than that if you go to a 3D or HFR or IMAX viewing. . Why spend that kind of money when you can spend $24.99 at Walmart get the deluxe edition and take it home and have it forever.$2.79 box of popcorn for the microwave, $1.29 2 litter bottle of soda, comfy blanket, turn the lights off comforts of home all for less than $40
That would probably explain for the DVD sales that the film has gotten.
But the majority of people I talk to found the film merely ok, good, or not bad. Great was mentioned a few times as were the terms sucked, ehhh, so so, and alright. I have found people who have not read the book have no clue that Azog and Radagast were not characters in the book. And have talked to many who have read the book who think their inclusion in the film was unnecessary, some went with the punches some didn't like the new version of the Hobbit. Its all personal taste but from my personal experience and dealing with the public on TV and movie's and conversations about those things. The Hobbit is always something I bring up. Most people are merely OK with the film AUJ and would rather watch it at home than go to the theater and see the next two.
(This post was edited by sinister71 on Jul 8 2013, 3:49pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Jul 8 2013, 4:05pm
Post #117 of 198
(854 views)
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.... and I think this may be true of all of us, not just you, that the people you talk to about the film might be influenced in what they say by your opinion of it? I've spoken to only one person whom I know in real life (as opposed to online) who really didn't like AUJ and one who was so put off by the negative press beforehand that she didn't even try. Everyone else I've spoken to enjoyed it and plans to go to the next film. On the three occasions I saw AUJ in the cinema the rest of the audience were very happy and enthusiastic.
I don't doubt your experience at all. On the other hand I know my own, and the reactions I've seen from people around me. Can't square those to things so I'm wondering, do we in some ways influence the responses we get, or maybe we home in on the things that reflect our own feelings?
Or are you perhaps hedging your bets, just a little, by coming into this saying that the next film won't do as well because lots of people thought it was a waste of the ticket money and won't bother to go to the cinema next time, and now changing that to 'I think the box office will be about the same for DOS, maybe slightly less.' I'm sticking to my guns on this one, I say the same or higher!
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Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 4:13pm
Post #118 of 198
(830 views)
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rising ticket prices, changing cinema customs and audiences, high quality home tv sets and falling quality of motion pictures are the main reasons , i think, why cinemas are slowly disappearing....
Thats how i would also describe , in general terms, how most people i have talked to, about TH, responded : it was ok, not bad.
Yeah, i lked it other say, in a similar ay one would say about a mildly appeasing meal.
Which , considerng its a an adaptation of a Tolkien book....
As for your doubt dormhouse, not in my case. Most of them didnt even know my take on it before they replied.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
(This post was edited by Lusitano on Jul 8 2013, 4:14pm)
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 4:19pm
Post #119 of 198
(849 views)
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I never give my opinion or show emotion about the film
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Not until I have an honest reaction about the film from the person I am talking to. Honestly I am more interested in knowing whether its just me or a general consensus about what is thought about the film. I was thinking myself an anomaly not caring for the majority of the film. So doing what I do for a living, I started bringing up the Hobbit with the people I deal with as a way of doing some sort of research. Which there are a wide variety of ages and demographics I deal with, most of which having the same reaction. Like I said "it was ok" is the biggest response.
I believe the Box Office will be about the same or less. I know fanatics that will go to a film more times if they hear the box office is lower than expected. I had a friend do that with Star Wars Phantom Menace. when he found out the numbers weren't as high as he thought they should be, he thought he could single handedly boost it. I bet he saw that movie 40 times... But anyways I've talked with too many people saying that they wont go to the cinema to see the next ones to think otherwise. So I'm still saying same or lower...
Now I see DVD sales staying the same or getting larger for the next films. Like I said more people would rather watch films at home instead of going out spending a small fortune.
(This post was edited by sinister71 on Jul 8 2013, 4:21pm)
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Elenorflower
Gondor
Jul 8 2013, 4:58pm
Post #120 of 198
(811 views)
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of going to the cinema is the reason most films today pander to the shallow video game all action, superficially glossy but empty hearted films we see. The films try to attract audiences with more and more frantic action scenes and special effects. it gets to the stage where its all cgi effects and thats it, theres nothing behind the surface, you scratch the surface paint off and its an empty shell, brittle glossy and sugary, it gives an instant high but Leaves you with rotting teeth. its all very well for people who havent read the book to get snotty about those who dislike additions, and label them as 'haters' which is offensive, and the people who do care about whats happening to their beloved book get shouted down by the peanut gallery. its just a sign of the times I guess, small attention spans and an unwillingness to wait for anything, people throwing their toys out the pram if you disagree with them, its really disillusioning.
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 5:04pm
Post #121 of 198
(844 views)
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I'm guessing it's going to do just as well,
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or slightly better than AUJ, similar to the previous trilogy, only less so.
Among the people that i've talked to, everyone pretty much liked it or thought it was "pretty good". The notable thing is that no one thought it was great, or absolutely loved it, which is telling. I have many friends that love LotR, either on a movie level (they always watch when they catch it on cable), or a film level (it's one of their favorite of all time). I know no one that loves AUJ in that way. There's no one talking about seeing DoS on opening day, or attending any sort of line party, like there was with LotR. It's always "yeah, i'll catch it eventually." And discussions usually stop there, and never get into excited talk about all the great moments in the film. I'm just not picking up on any love for The Hobbit so far (myself included), only like. Which sucks, because i really want to love The Hobbit films, and i'm seriously hoping that this gets rectified over the course of DoS, and then TaBA.
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Sinister71
Tol Eressea
Jul 8 2013, 5:12pm
Post #122 of 198
(814 views)
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the parts that were close to the book I love more and more every time i watch the film. The parts that are deviations or complete made up content i like less and less with every viewing. That is something that could be telling.
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arithmancer
Grey Havens
Jul 8 2013, 5:20pm
Post #124 of 198
(833 views)
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What I would find illuminating...
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...is what parts of the film are most liked by people who have not read the book, and have not been told by friends what was/was not in the book.
Because I think people who remember the book well enough to remember what was and was not in it, are a small part of the viewing audience. I happen to be in that small part of the audience, but adaptation does not bother me.
Anecdotally, I know two nonreaders, LotR movie-only fans, who saw the film. Both liked Radagast's scenes and mention him as a favorite. (Most of the people I discussed AUJ with in Real Life are big Tolkien book fans AND loved the film).
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bungobaggins
Lorien
Jul 8 2013, 5:22pm
Post #125 of 198
(827 views)
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rising ticket prices, changing cinema customs and audiences, high quality home tv sets and falling quality of motion pictures are the main reasons , i think, why cinemas are slowly disappearing....
Other reasons (especially for Americans) include the rise of services like Netflix and Amazon Prime. If you have a streaming device (roku, apple tv)/blu ray player hooked up to your t.v. and have access to these services then you have even less reason to go to the cinema. It's a part of a growing "cord-cutting" culture in the United States (people who are choosing to ditch their cable t.v. services and stream all their content from the internet). Why go to the cinema or redbox dvd rental if you can just press a few buttons in your living room and you're instantly watching a movie?
The last film I saw in theaters was AUJ and before that it was Dark Knight Rises (so those are like 5-6 months apart). I used to like to go to the movie theater, but internet streaming provides a wonderful alternative where I can enjoy a film in the relative quiet and privacy of my residence. (The only downside to streaming is that movies aren't available to stream until they're released on DVD, and certain movies will not always be on every streaming service, but these drawbacks aren't that big of a deal to me). Also it helps me personally to avoid big crowds and noisy/rude people. I remember I went to see Harry Potter 6 in theaters, the theater was packed even though I had arrived well before the movie started. The only available seat was near a family whose kid would scream his lungs out every time Dumbledore was onscreen. Worst movie going experience ever.
And yes, lower quality of films is keeping me away from the cinema as well. I wanted to see Paul Thomas Anderson's The Master when it was released, but it wasn't showing in my area. I think the closest it was was an hour away.
So that's my personal experience with disillusionment at the current state of the cinema going experience. And no Peter Jackson/James Cameron, no 48 fps or video game action will get me back. If I wanted video game action and high frame rates I'd buy a PS4 and play a game myself.
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