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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
help please

trqn13
Bree


Jul 6 2013, 7:24pm

Post #1 of 21 (998 views)
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help please Can't Post

I don't understand this line of the film, can anyone lend a hand, cheers

[Gloin:] “Aye. Oin has read the portents, and the portents say it is time.”

portents? why Oin?

"Give me your name, Horse Master, and I shall give you mine"


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 7:24pm

Post #2 of 21 (565 views)
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What is a portent??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I noticed some of the dwarves rolled there eyes when Oin said that.


(This post was edited by The Mitch King on Jul 6 2013, 7:25pm)


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 6 2013, 7:32pm

Post #3 of 21 (498 views)
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Appparently Oin is the scholar of the group. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Dwarves don't seem to have a formal religion with clerics or priests to read signs and portents, so the resident scholar gets the job instead. The portents could be anything from an atrological reading to rune-casting (which sounds particularly dwarvish).

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 6 2013, 7:34pm

Post #4 of 21 (467 views)
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Portent = sign (or omen) [In reply to] Can't Post

Thus:

[Gloin:] “Aye. Oin has read the signs, and the signs say it is time.”

To which Oin replies: "Ravens have been seen flying back to the mountain as it was foretold. When the birds of the old return to Erebor, the reign of the beast will end."

The sign (or portent) were the Ravens returning to Erebor.

Smile

Coming soon! The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.




(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jul 6 2013, 7:35pm)


W1tchK1nG
The Shire


Jul 6 2013, 7:43pm

Post #5 of 21 (471 views)
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Here [In reply to] Can't Post

Portent - An indication of something important or calamitous about to occur; an omen !!!
So as DanieILB mentioned the portent is the same as sign or prophecy Wink


emre43
Lorien

Jul 6 2013, 7:44pm

Post #6 of 21 (457 views)
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I don't remember this line. [In reply to] Can't Post

When is it said?


trqn13
Bree


Jul 6 2013, 7:59pm

Post #7 of 21 (448 views)
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who first saw the ravens? [In reply to] Can't Post

I imagine it was people closer to the mountain (or were the dwarves watching?) and the word spread, however this makes the line from Thorin a tad redundant: "don't you think if we have seen these signs other will have too................"

"Give me your name, Horse Master, and I shall give you mine"


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 6 2013, 8:20pm

Post #8 of 21 (425 views)
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I understood it that Oin found out about the Ravens... [In reply to] Can't Post

Through message of word. Scouts probably spotted some Ravens around Erebor, and the word got to Oin. It was Oin that knew the omen, and thus "read" the signs. I don't think it implies Oin saw the Ravens personally.

I hope we've helped.

Smile

Coming soon! The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.




(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jul 6 2013, 8:21pm)


jordagorn
The Shire

Jul 6 2013, 8:21pm

Post #9 of 21 (416 views)
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Yes, how do they know? [In reply to] Can't Post

How does anyone know the ravens are returning? Also, if Oin is supposed to be a scholar then why does he mistake the thrush for a raven on the Carrock?


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 6 2013, 8:26pm

Post #10 of 21 (418 views)
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Probably because he was expecting [In reply to] Can't Post

A Raven to be flying towards the mountain, and not a Thrush ... since that is was the omen is about.

(Or, he didn't get a good look at it flying.)

Coming soon! The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.




entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 6 2013, 8:45pm

Post #11 of 21 (504 views)
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A portent is something [In reply to] Can't Post

that foreshadows the future. It could be something as mundane as the sound of thunder before a storm, but in the Hobbit movie the implication is that Oin is "reading" the signs and making predictions about the future. We don't know what Oin is using to make his predictions, but he appears to be master of portents.


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 10:18pm

Post #12 of 21 (368 views)
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ha! : ) [In reply to] Can't Post

 
[entmaiden]

We don't know what Oin is using to make his predictions, but he appears to be master of portents.

[/entmaiden]


... not according to dori. : )


cheers : )

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


Brethil
Half-elven


Jul 6 2013, 11:16pm

Post #13 of 21 (293 views)
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It is said at the table in Bag End, Emre, with Thorin present. // [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
When is it said?


Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.







TheSexyBeard
Lorien


Jul 6 2013, 11:48pm

Post #14 of 21 (313 views)
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Oin the seer [In reply to] Can't Post

Oin's portent reading made me think of him as a seer more than a scholar Or he at least likes to think of himself as one. Dori shakes his head as it if to say "Not this again," and Oin can't tell the difference between a Thrush and a Raven which suggests he may not be as good as he and Gloin think.

Yes, my username is terrible.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 7 2013, 12:33am

Post #15 of 21 (279 views)
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We don't know for sure... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
How does anyone know the ravens are returning? Also, if Oin is supposed to be a scholar then why does he mistake the thrush for a raven on the Carrock?



Unless Oin (or some other Dwarf) had a dream or vision--which is entirely possible)--then he had probably received some sort of news from Dain's folk in the Iron Hills. Woodmen or Lake-folk may have made the original observation, the news got to the Iron Hills and eventually to Oin. Reliable post existed in the Shire, although Oin would have had to rely on the old system of handing off a letter to someone heading in the general direction of its destination and hoping for good luck.

As to how Oin mistakes a thrush for a raven, perhaps he is just short-sighted.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jul 7 2013, 2:47am

Post #16 of 21 (276 views)
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The Reason Why The Ravens Are Late [In reply to] Can't Post

Why did the Thrush beat the Ravens back to the mountain? The attached picture explains it.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.


Attachments: RavenSled2.jpg (35.2 KB)


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Jul 7 2013, 4:19am

Post #17 of 21 (231 views)
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Red Sky at night [In reply to] Can't Post

Shepherd's delight. Red sky in the morning, shepherd's warning. Cows lie down - it's going to rain. One for sorrow, two for joy, three for a girl and four for a boy etc.

Also, of course, the classic one - girlfriend saying not to get her any chips is a portent of girlfriend stealing your chips later on, when she changes her mind.


emre43
Lorien

Jul 7 2013, 6:56am

Post #18 of 21 (189 views)
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Ah, ok, thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile


Brethil
Half-elven


Jul 7 2013, 1:59pm

Post #19 of 21 (136 views)
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Most welcome Emre! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.







angelclaw
Bree

Jul 8 2013, 4:28am

Post #20 of 21 (79 views)
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Supposedly Oin is the healer... [In reply to] Can't Post

Although we haven't seen any evidence of this on camera yet, it is in his official character description. Healers are also seers in many ancient cultures, so it always made sense to me that Oin would be the one reading the portents.

Why he can't tell a thrush from a raven is another matter entirely... Crazy


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 8 2013, 3:19pm

Post #21 of 21 (70 views)
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Oin read the portents and the portents said... [In reply to] Can't Post

...no more monkeys jumping on the bed!

 
 

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