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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Number one ridiculous problem with AUJ to me
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The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 6:12am

Post #26 of 198 (1224 views)
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This is awkward [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
when did the dwarves fall hundreds of feet as a result of the stone giants?? they fell with one of the stone giants but they were holding on to it while it fell lol. Please watch the scene again, no dwarf fell a hundred feet and survived.


I have never said "the dwarves fell hundreds of feet as the result of the stone giants". I watched the whole movie today so I'm not sure what you are driving at? You have completely missed my point.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 6:17am

Post #27 of 198 (1100 views)
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Actually collision is worse for your case [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
a stone giant collided with a side of the misty mountains. the dwarves were not crushed because it clearly showed that they survived the collision by falling into a hollowed out side of rock and were spared being crushed to death.


I would rather fall a hundred feet than be between a mountain side and a relatively fast moving giant made of stone on a collision course! How fortunate that they all landed perfectly ok! Inertia would have been awfully rough on them. The whole mountain side would have been pulverized! It wasn't a touchy impact or maybe I missed something?


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 6:23am

Post #28 of 198 (1177 views)
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i believe this is what you said... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Tolkien never threw his characters hundreds of feet right?"

All due respect to your degree and majors in laws of physics but these are FANTASY films not historical films or films which are trying to emulate reality. I mean geesh, where in the laws of physics can a wizard turn a pinecone into flames? I mean if we are going by laws of physics than yeah there are 1,000 things that could never happen in AUJ.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!

(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Jul 6 2013, 6:26am)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 6:31am

Post #29 of 198 (1082 views)
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yes but this is a Fantasy film [In reply to] Can't Post

not a reality based film. I highly doubt a giant rock like that could move 87,000 miles per hour. Watch the scene again, the stone giant was falling slowly and after the impact the dwarves & bilbo were in a hollowed out piece in the side of the stone giant and they fell onto a ledge not against the side of the misty mountains.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 6:36am

Post #30 of 198 (1192 views)
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yes and your point? [In reply to] Can't Post

my point is that both of those things are no more over-the-top than anything seen in AUJ. Actually if anything they are more over-the-top than anything seen in AUJ.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 6:38am

Post #31 of 198 (1117 views)
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I think it's pretty balanced. [In reply to] Can't Post

Depending on which side of the fence each of us are on, the opposite viewpoint is obviously going to feel a bit more pronounced.

Speaking for myself, I quite enjoy An Unexpected Journey. Though, to be honest, it did let me down a bit on my first viewing. I went in expecting The Lord of the Rings-level cinema, even though I should have known better (given the tone of the source material). But the film ended up being a lot more light and whimsical than I expected (despite the darker elements brought into the adaptation).

It took a while to separate An Unexpected Journey, as it is, from the movie I expected it to be. Now I enjoy it quite a lot on its own terms. Though I never have gotten over the decision to split two films into three. I suspect some of my lingering issues with the film may be alleviated once I see The Desolation of Smaug.

But yes, indeed, there are those of us here who like the film quite a lot. But it is downtime between movies, and I personally am invested in a number of other books, movies, tv shows, etc. at the moment (over the past couple months, Game of Thrones had been occupying my psyche Wink).

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jul 6 2013, 6:46am)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 6:44am

Post #32 of 198 (1105 views)
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agreed and another thing to consider [In reply to] Can't Post

on my first viewing i was slightly disappointed too but i realized that these films are not supposed to be LOTR's copies, this is a completely different story which is set in the same world so it should have a different feel than LOTR's. After viewing the film a few times i can say it has a much better re-watch factor than FOTR. -Not that FOTR is not as good it just takes longer for that film to start moving.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 6:47am

Post #33 of 198 (1131 views)
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Haha [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"Tolkien never threw his characters hundreds of feet right?"

All due respect to your degree and majors in laws of physics but these are FANTASY films not historical films or films which are trying to emulate reality. I mean geesh, where in the laws of physics can a wizard turn a pinecone into flames? I mean if we are going by laws of physics than yeah there are 1,000 things that could never happen in AUJ.


That quote was in reference to Aragorn in TTT. My major is biology by the way Tongue

You'll notice how I said the physical impacts on non magical bodies is what my problem is and that I explicitly have mentioned that this is looking at the movie in a realistic/ fun way so we can talk about things like this. My question really is "is the scene ridiculous or unnecessary?" You can try to make me out as a purist or something but I won't get into arguments I never made.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 6:52am

Post #34 of 198 (1115 views)
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C'mon! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
on my first viewing i was slightly disappointed too but i realized that these films are not supposed to be LOTR's copies, this is a completely different story which is set in the same world so it should have a different feel than LOTR's. After viewing the film a few times i can say it has a much better re-watch factor than FOTR. -Not that FOTR is not as good it just takes longer for that film to start moving.


This isn't a thread about comparisons to LOTR or the tone of the book or the millions of others things repeated on this site. I LOVE AUJ! I'm not a purist, I like Azog, I think Radagast is refreshing etc etc. You want to make it a convo about something I didn't mean it to be. I think the stone giant would have pulverized the whole side of the moment including our beloved company no matter how much we like them. It is a fun discussion thread that doesn't need tons of extra baggage Smile


(This post was edited by The Mitch King on Jul 6 2013, 6:59am)


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 6:58am

Post #35 of 198 (1048 views)
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ermmmm [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
not a reality based film. I highly doubt a giant rock like that could move 87,000 miles per hour. Watch the scene again, the stone giant was falling slowly and after the impact the dwarves & bilbo were in a hollowed out piece in the side of the stone giant and they fell onto a ledge not against the side of the misty mountains.


The rock doesn't need to be moving 87,000 mph to kill and destroy haha just because you doubt the idea of a stone moving that fast doesn't make it a reality. In fact reality tell us large things can and do move faster than bullets!(see astronomy)

As I pointed out already, the large scaling of the scene gives the illusion of slow motion but that doesn't mean therefore it is slow-motion. If you were standing on the giant it would be an incredible ride. Don't forget it was wet and windy which doesn't help. The chance of them all surviving(for the sake of argument and fun) is just astronomically improbable! Lets not delude ourselves!


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 7:02am

Post #36 of 198 (1074 views)
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Agreed on the first - Agree to disagree on the second ;) [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

I worship FotR (as well as the other two films), so the rewatch factor for it knows no bounds as far as I'm concerned. Cool That said, despite my initial disappointment, I have found that An Unexpected Journey is insanely rewatchable. A lot of the film's critics have lambasted the opening 'Unexpected Party' scenes, but I adore them (they're actually my favorite part of the film). Once all the dwarves come knocking on Bilbo's door, I'm in for the whole ride. Smile

I definitely agree with what you said about the film's not being LotR "copies". AUJ has a very different feel, and I believe it's supposed to. Like I said, though, it was just very off-putting the first time I saw it though. After 9 years of anticipation, I think that was bound to happen for me.

On a side note, I will say that I've recently reconsidered one of my chief criticisms of AUJ. I was very much against the increased role of the orcs (and the prominence of Azog) in this film, initially. But after recently rereading The Hobbit for the first time in a while, I think PJ & Co. made a wise decision to incorporate the Orcs as one of the chief foes of the Dwarves. It gives a lot more build-up to the Battle of Five Armies, which seems a bit sudden in the book. While Tolkien deals with that with a few lines of exposition, it wouldn't quite work in these films I think.

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jul 6 2013, 7:11am)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 7:06am

Post #37 of 198 (1080 views)
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Sorry, Mitch, I'm responsible for this deviation... [In reply to] Can't Post

I responded to MouthofSauron's comment about whether there were any people feeling positive about the film, and he responded to my post. It wasn't my intention to go off-topic or anything. Just having a little side conversation. Sorry. Blush

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jul 6 2013, 7:07am)


emre43
Rohan

Jul 6 2013, 7:21am

Post #38 of 198 (1111 views)
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Got to admit I've lost the will to argue back [In reply to] Can't Post

Haters gonna hate and all


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 7:32am

Post #39 of 198 (1045 views)
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i wasn't responding to you [In reply to] Can't Post

i was replying to another user.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 7:34am

Post #40 of 198 (1019 views)
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like i've said [In reply to] Can't Post

look to other movies which are rooted in non-fiction for your in-depth physics analysis.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 7:35am

Post #41 of 198 (1025 views)
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No prob [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I responded to MouthofSauron's comment about whether there were any people feeling positive about the film, and he responded to my post. It wasn't my intention to go off-topic or anything. Just having a little side conversation. Sorry. Blush


It's no problem really! I have just seen threads get locked because they get so out of hand you know? I was curious if there was anyone else who was thrown off by ONLY this scene. I personally love and cant wait for the next two movies!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 7:37am

Post #42 of 198 (1049 views)
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i tend to agree with you [In reply to] Can't Post

maybe we'll see Mitch in the front row for the opening night of DOS Wink haters hate but the haters keep coming back for more of Peter Jackson's middle-earth films lol. I'm not calling you a hater Mitch that was just a comment toward other people who just hate AUJ for the sake of it, i know you don't hate the film.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!

(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Jul 6 2013, 7:40am)


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 7:42am

Post #43 of 198 (1019 views)
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You're missing me in a big way I think [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
look to other movies which are rooted in non-fiction for your in-depth physics analysis.


I specifically said in one of my posts that I was evaluating it in a specific way. It is fun for science majors to get into fantasy! Why would I go to non-fiction instead when I have my favorite books and movies here?? Is it so wrong for me, who loves PJ's ME, to throw my science hat on and think about it in another light? I don't need this turning into a personal, emotionally packed thread because I think we all already know who likes the movies and who doesn't. Wink

I think they clearly would have been crushed because of the scale of their situation and you don't. Simple as that!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 7:45am

Post #44 of 198 (1013 views)
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no, there's nothing wrong with it [In reply to] Can't Post

its interesting for sure but all i'm saying is...AUJ is a fantasy film so i sometimes will overlook some things because its fantasy. However, i still disagree with you on the stone giants/dwarves Wink


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 7:45am

Post #45 of 198 (1053 views)
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I WILL BE! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
maybe we'll see Mitch in the front row for the opening night of DOS Wink haters hate but the haters keep coming back for more of Peter Jackson's middle-earth films lol. I'm not calling you a hater Mitch that was just a comment toward other people who just hate AUJ for the sake of it, i know you don't hate the film.


I am always at opening night and will be for DOS! I'm not in the front row though because I prefer the top of the theater actually. If you want to see me on the opposite side go check out any Azog, anti-AUJ/PJ or Radagast threads!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Jul 6 2013, 7:49am

Post #46 of 198 (1029 views)
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i'm with you brother [In reply to] Can't Post

i'll be there opening night as well.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty....Oh will you please take me home!!


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 6 2013, 8:59am

Post #47 of 198 (1036 views)
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It's only ridiculous.... [In reply to] Can't Post

..if you define it as ridiculous. Doesn't seem so to me, and reading the posts here it seems that others have accepted the scene as it is and can't see a problem.

The dramatic focus there is Thorin; the scene is telling the audience how much he cares for the company and feels his responsibility towards them - despite his comment to Gandalf about not being responsible for Bilbo. It shows how far he will go to protect them - while still being grouchy. That's why. Try focussing on dwarves rather than rocks, particularly on Thorin.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 9:11am

Post #48 of 198 (1000 views)
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OK that's all well taken BUT [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
..if you define it as ridiculous. Doesn't seem so to me, and reading the posts here it seems that others have accepted the scene as it is and can't see a problem.

The dramatic focus there is Thorin; the scene is telling the audience how much he cares for the company and feels his responsibility towards them - despite his comment to Gandalf about not being responsible for Bilbo. It shows how far he will go to protect them - while still being grouchy. That's why. Try focussing on dwarves rather than rocks, particularly on Thorin.


My whole point was focusing on the rocks! Wink

It's not ridiculous JUST because I define it that way. I define it that way for reasons I have posted already. So it's not like I just used pejorative terms of definition and then dismissed the scene as ridiculous. The thread is not about the emotional impact of the scene(Bilbo/Thorin/etc) but the physical impact. The emotional impact could have been made without the mountain/dwarf/mountain sandwich I think. It was a pretty extreme way to make a point you have to admit!


jtarkey
Rohan


Jul 6 2013, 9:48am

Post #49 of 198 (1010 views)
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As will I... [In reply to] Can't Post

But did you not see, in the DOS trailer, Bombur flying 50 feet in the air in a barrel? Thrain leaping onto Gandalf like spiderman? Thorin fighting orcs whilst IN a barrel travelling down rapids?

My point is this...

PJ has obviously opted to turn The Hobbit into an action extravaganza that has total disregard for real world physics. This is the polar opposite of LOTR. Gimli had to be tossed over a 10 foot gap at Helms Deep, yet all the dwarves in The Hobbit seem like they could easily land a job with Cirque Du Soleil...

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Chopsta123
Gondor


Jul 6 2013, 9:49am

Post #50 of 198 (990 views)
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Your right about this scene being ridiculous [In reply to] Can't Post

because it is. But one thing to remember is that its a fantasy movie and not a documentary. They want it to be ridiculous. When has Fantasy ever followed the rules of physics 100% of the time?
People see those films to dive into a different world. The same goes with explosions in literally every action movie. They are totally unrealistic but people want to see them because it simply doenst happen in real life.

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