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When do you forsee ...seeing the Silmarillion on screen?
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AnalogKid
Registered User

Jul 5 2013, 5:20am

Post #1 of 41 (565 views)
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When do you forsee ...seeing the Silmarillion on screen? Can't Post

Hello all, new to posting, though have been lurking for years upon years. Anyways, just a bit of a mind game here. When do you folks think that we will see the Silmarillion adapted to the screen? Either movies, television, or whatever medium replaces them works.

My own opinion is we'll see it in some form in the mid/late 2020's.


glor
Rohan

Jul 5 2013, 10:40am

Post #2 of 41 (336 views)
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When HBO has run out of G R R Martin material \\ [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 5 2013, 12:29pm

Post #3 of 41 (334 views)
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Not until after it falls into public domain // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Jul 5 2013, 12:54pm

Post #4 of 41 (326 views)
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mae govannen! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
analogkid, mae govannen! thanks so much for delurking. : )

you've touched upon an interesting question.... you will get many strong opinions, no doubt.

i would +love+ to see the sil filmed as a long series of films (perhaps a nontology?) or as an episodic television series (but i'd still want to see it on the big, majestic screen). and, i would love to have jackson at the helm.

i don't think i'm going to see my wish until --- perhaps -- until i'm as old as a numenorean. christopher tolkien doesn't seem to like jackson's work, and i don't think he will negotiate the rights as long as he's alive. so the next best chance would be for that task to fall to his literary executor (does anyone have any thought as to whom that might likely be?).


oh --- and if you love the sil -- please come join us in the reading room! we're currently discussing it, chapter by chapter. all you need is to have read the book at least once, and have an opinion. : )


many cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jul 5 2013, 1:51pm

Post #5 of 41 (306 views)
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Howdy AnalogKid! [In reply to] Can't Post

*chin quivers* Alas... right now that's a dream. BUT who knows... in future years, maybe the Tolkien Estate will open its heart and door to sharing the Sil and other works. Never say "never"!


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sevilodorf
Gondor


Jul 5 2013, 2:56pm

Post #6 of 41 (316 views)
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second this// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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acheron
Gondor


Jul 5 2013, 3:04pm

Post #7 of 41 (306 views)
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a hot and windy august afternoon has the trees in constant motion [In reply to] Can't Post

First, I love your username.

Second, it is hard to say. The Tolkien Estate is currently completely opposed to selling the rights, and I don't think all the money at WB could persuade them otherwise. So however long it takes for them to change their mind. Given how copyright laws have gone over the past century, I would not count on waiting for public domain.

For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much -- the wheel, New York, wars, and so on -- while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man, for precisely the same reasons. -- Douglas Adams


Brethil
Half-elven


Jul 5 2013, 3:09pm

Post #8 of 41 (294 views)
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Welcome AnalogKid! [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with others, the rights are the big issue - as Mac suggests, perhaps the next executor may feel differently (I don't know who that may be, or if that is the case.)

An emotional topic, I am in the ranks of those who would like to see it done (in series form, not as 'films' per se.) Your estimate may be correct...it would be fabulous for TORn itself if more material was produced as it helps keep our site even more vibrant with new members as new things are released.

Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.







Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Jul 5 2013, 3:22pm

Post #9 of 41 (308 views)
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here are some great links [In reply to] Can't Post

 
to info re christopher and the silmarillion

video interview in which he describes the origins of the sil, and its different versions (note: he clearly refers to jrr as sayiing that the hobbit was +never+ intended to have any connection with the sil)

christopher tolkien talks about the sil


interview with french paper le monde

le monde interview



the youtube talk is really worthwhile.



cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 5 2013, 3:31pm

Post #10 of 41 (299 views)
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As one complete dramatisation I doubt if it's even possible... [In reply to] Can't Post

Too vast in scale.

Some of the individual stories might work but it won't happen anytime soon. Christopher Tolkien is still alive. His part of the copyright will last until 70 years after his death, whenever that is, and his successors are likely to respect his feelings about it. So unless he meets a director/producer who will approach the dramatisation a way he can embrace, don't hold your breath!

Just dream about it; that way you can make the films whatever you want them to be.


Brethil
Half-elven


Jul 5 2013, 3:55pm

Post #11 of 41 (290 views)
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Thank you for the links Telpemairo [In reply to] Can't Post

Loved the YouTube portion.

The LeMonde article makes me ponder two issues: (neither of them stunningly original)
- Is CT simply emotionally 'too close' to the material to accept its filmed incarnation? Because I adore the original texts - as you know - and simply cannot agree with 'evisceration' as an accurate description. I cannot blame him at all, having grown up with it and watched its development so intimately. It just seems to be the way to reconcile the two. Personally I am thankful to CT for making so much of JRRT's work available and for the charity work that they do.

- This quote (NOT by CT, by the article author) is a bit troublesome to accept:
"This policy, however, has not protected the family from the reality that the work now belongs to a gigantic audience, culturally far removed from the writer who conceived it."

Not *wild* about that statement. I am a "book-firster" (and 'book-laster, as they are the final word) though I enjoy the films immensely. It seems to me to promote an elitism that implies fans of the work who are brought there by way of the films or who enjoy the films are a ... how to say it? .... culturally substandard audience. Not quite sure how JRRT would view that idea - not necessarily about the films themselves, but that there is some sort of 'cultural requirement' for the enjoyment of his work. Seems rather a broad condemnation - again, quote NOT by CT. Though he may feel it too somewhat, I don't know enough to say definitely.

I find that a bit less than happy.

Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.







geordie
Tol Eressea

Jul 5 2013, 4:07pm

Post #12 of 41 (281 views)
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Interesting, thanks. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm replying to Brethil's post, but really speaking to the thread in general. This question often comes up; here and on other forums and there seems to be an underlying idea that the Tolkien family ought to go against what they've done up till now, because fans of PJ's movies want more movies. I'm not sure that's a good reason - whay ought more films be made of Tolkien's works?

Years ago, Christopher said something in the news about the LotR movies - he said that his father had thought his stories unsuitable for dramatic form, and that this was also his opinion. I think the same - we already have four movies based on Tolkien's writings, and two more to come; and I for one am glad that it doesn't seem likely that there will be any more.

.

.


(This post was edited by geordie on Jul 5 2013, 4:12pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 5 2013, 4:17pm

Post #13 of 41 (288 views)
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And I hope not even then. [In reply to] Can't Post

Because except for a couple small plot lines, there's nothing in it that would work on film.

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AnalogKid
Registered User

Jul 5 2013, 5:32pm

Post #14 of 41 (283 views)
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the future [In reply to] Can't Post

I did some brief research, and Christopher Tolkien has three children, Simon, Adam and Rachel Tolkien. He also has number of nieces and nephews. Amongst those nieces and nephews there seems to be a genuine openness to other interpretations of J.R.R Tolkien's works.

My own opinion is that the odds favor Adam Tolkien as being the next literary executor, with Simon being a possibility. Adam has translated a number of his grandfather's works into French and has also helped his father with editing The Children of Hurin. Simon is an author himself, one who hasn't been afraid to speak about his grandfather's works.

The reason that Adam is likely in the lead to be the literary executor is that Simon and his father apparently had quite a falling out in regards to Simon's willingness to support and assist with the film adaptation of The Lord of The Rings. Though, according to Simon, they have since reconciled their differences. As for Adam, I haven't been able to find any comments of his going one way or another in regards to other interpretations.

So what does this mean? My own opinion is the odds favor a greater openness to other interpretations once we have a new literary executor for the estate. The question is by how much and to what degree. Adam seems neutral, without having taken the hard line that his father has. While Simon appears very open-minded and willing to help adapt the works of his grandfather.

So...the reason I picked the late twenties? By then, there will be a new literary executor, with likely a few years behind him in that role. It's close enough in time for the LOTR and Hobbit fanbase to still be there, and its close enough in time for the Movie Studios/Networks to want to tap into that as soon as possible. The delaying factor would likely end up being that it would need to be something that the estate could agree to, and not something along the lines of The Silmarillion: The Revenge of Morgoth, or the Silmarillion: The Elves Strike back.


Otaku-sempai
Half-elven


Jul 5 2013, 5:42pm

Post #15 of 41 (278 views)
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Almost nothing is unfilmable, RosieLass... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Because except for a couple small plot lines, there's nothing in it that would work on film.



It all depends on the approach that is taken. The topics of a Silmarillion film (or films) and how it (they) might work has been discussed on these boards numerous times--quite recently here.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Brethil
Half-elven


Jul 5 2013, 5:51pm

Post #16 of 41 (264 views)
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Nice to see you Geordie! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for your answer - no matter what my own film or no film opinion may be, I agree with your point in that the Tolkien family has every right to reserve their own opinions and feelings.
Only time will tell either way! Angelic

Coming soon!- The first TORn Amateur Symposium, starts Sunday 21st July in the Reading Room. Closing date for essay submission Sunday 14th July, but even if you don't submit, join us for some interesting discussion on some different and personal ways of looking at Tolkien's work.







malickfan
Gondor


Jul 5 2013, 6:44pm

Post #17 of 41 (260 views)
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Hopefully never [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry to put a dampener on things, but I have made my views on this very clear numerous times, I am almost entirely opposed to a live action adaptation of The Silmarillion-a (commerically sucessful one at least) adaptation of The Silmarillion would have to change, invent or loose so much of the stories themes, tone and timeline it would end up being very little like the source material, we never even got Tolkien's final version of the story, so I don't want to see Hollywood coming in and fixing the stories 'gaps and flaws' for the sake of a quick buck, especially when Tolkien himself would likely be against the adaptation.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Escapist
Gondor


Jul 5 2013, 6:49pm

Post #18 of 41 (249 views)
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I can see your point. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I would say that times, trends, and cultures all change. There may come a time when the themes and events in the Silmarillion would be embraced more easily without making so many changes to the tone and things. The only thing that seems very clear to me for sure is that right now is really not the time for it. There are so many reasons.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Jul 5 2013, 7:09pm

Post #19 of 41 (255 views)
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On a purely pedantic note [In reply to] Can't Post

- if I may - Smile

- you say: "I did some brief research, and Christopher Tolkien has three children, Simon, Adam and Rachel Tolkien. He also has number of nieces and nephews. Amongst those nieces and nephews there seems to be a genuine openness to other interpretations of J.R.R Tolkien's works. "

Christopher had two brothers and a sister - only one brother, Michael, had children; one boy, one girl, both born in the forties. Me and mrs geordie have met them both. We haven't spoken with them about the movies (oddly enough), but anyway; I'm not as confident as you are about their attitude to other movie adaptations. Can I ask where you get your information?
.


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Jul 5 2013, 7:21pm

Post #20 of 41 (243 views)
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When hell freezes over? [In reply to] Can't Post

Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part. =)

**********************************

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Not a TORns*b!
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Knitting Knerd
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(This post was edited by Eowyn of Penns Woods on Jul 5 2013, 7:22pm)


malickfan
Gondor


Jul 5 2013, 7:26pm

Post #21 of 41 (249 views)
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Judging by this (old) interview Adam Tolkien at least dosen't seem that enthused about the films [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/...olkien_Interview.php

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Starling
Half-elven


Jul 6 2013, 12:05am

Post #22 of 41 (233 views)
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Funnily enough, [In reply to] Can't Post

I listened to an interview on the radio this morning with a guy who writes satire. He wrote a blog back in 2008 about the news that Peter Jackson was going ahead with a 95 hour version of The Silmarillion, which would include actual real battles. A lot of people thought it was true! It's a fun read, but I'm not sure if I should post a link to it because the comments immediately after the blog include some very strong language, so I might get in trouble!


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 6 2013, 12:10am

Post #23 of 41 (219 views)
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I know the blogger of whom you speak! [In reply to] Can't Post

He's got a book out, hasn't he?

That Silmarillion blog is one of my favourites of his, especially as he reports some Tolkien fans had signed up to die in the battles so that the movie's as realistic as possible. Laugh (But yeah, some of those comments make it tough to link to the article from here.)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


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Starling
Half-elven


Jul 6 2013, 12:30am

Post #24 of 41 (215 views)
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Yes, that's the one [In reply to] Can't Post

It never ceases to amaze me what people will believe. Laugh


Asger
Bree


Jul 6 2013, 2:35pm

Post #25 of 41 (206 views)
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In about 20 years [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the literary executors will see Tolkiens work getting nearer public domain, and they might contact some producers with a contract that will give them more control in production.

Or else in 2058 a bunch of second-rate producers will make each their own B-movie out of it with spectacular effects, action, fighting and nothing else in them.

"Don't take life seriously, it ain't nohow permanent!" Pogo
www.willy-centret.dk

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