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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
mae govannen!

Maciliel
Tol Eressea


Jul 5 2013, 4:23am


Views: 273
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mae govannen! [In reply to] Can't Post

 
hi thatlldo, mae govannen! thanks so much for posting such a great question to the reading room. : )

i think, regarding sentient animals, we have to separate the hobbit from lotr and the sil. he wrote the hobbit as a separate thing, in a very fairy tale like manner.

once he had produced and published lotr he himself said that things were a bit of a mess, continuity-wise, with the tone and many details. he had thought of a hobbit re-write (which never happened).

so, for me, things like talking purses aren't "real" in middle-earth, they're more amusing ways of telling the story. sort of the way we do it.

we do have sentient birds in lotr and sil, so that's fine in the hobbit.

i think the fox in lotr was a bit of a tone throwback to the hobbit, and was really just a fanciful way of narrating the story. i don't think, in middle earth, that particular fox was sentient. i love the line too, but i deem it "author-speak" rather than a depiction of how that world works.

having just read the beren and luthien chapter, i've been thinking a lot about huan. he seems to have sentience, regardless of how many times he spoke, and even before he spoke. i had a fleeting thought that huan was a maia who had chosen to enter arda in that form, to fulfill a particular part of the song. but then that didn't seem to jibe with orome "giving" him to celegorm. i don't think a maia in whatever form would ever be a thing to be "given."

so... were there lots of sentient dogs in valinor? or is huan a special case? we know manwe's eagle's are a special breed, and are many.

cheers --

.


aka. fili orc-enshield
+++++++++++++++++++
the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel telpemairo

Subject User Time
What degree of sentience do Tolkien's animals have? thatlldo Send a private message to thatlldo Jul 5 2013, 4:10am
    mae govannen! Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 5 2013, 4:23am
    Good question! Elizabeth Send a private message to Elizabeth Jul 5 2013, 7:26am
        what do we mean by "sentience"? Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 5 2013, 12:18pm
        Oh! That sounds exciting Elizabeth! Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 5 2013, 3:27pm
        Me too Rembrethil Send a private message to Rembrethil Jul 5 2013, 3:35pm
            fantastic : ) Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 5 2013, 3:40pm
            Wonderful news Rembrethil! // Brethil Send a private message to Brethil Jul 5 2013, 3:58pm
        I'm looking forward to that paper, Elizabeth :) // noWizardme Send a private message to noWizardme Jul 7 2013, 3:59pm
    Mammals in real world also "think" to themselves wildespace Send a private message to wildespace Jul 5 2013, 9:31am
        entirely Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 5 2013, 12:19pm
    The wargs Lothwen Send a private message to Lothwen Jul 5 2013, 10:03am
        good question Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 5 2013, 12:27pm
            Thanks Maciliel! Lothwen Send a private message to Lothwen Jul 5 2013, 3:25pm
                an interesting wrinkle Maciliel Send a private message to Maciliel Jul 5 2013, 3:31pm
                    Ah, the complications... Lothwen Send a private message to Lothwen Jul 7 2013, 11:59am
        Wargs Fredeghar Wayfarer Send a private message to Fredeghar Wayfarer Jul 8 2013, 3:59am
            The Warg attack in FotR Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Jul 8 2013, 2:36pm
    talk talk Elthir Send a private message to Elthir Jul 5 2013, 12:28pm
    Sentience in Middle-earth wezan Send a private message to wezan Jul 6 2013, 9:37pm

 
 
 

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