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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Some Dol Guldur info?

The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 1 2013, 5:57pm

Post #1 of 22 (1097 views)
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Some Dol Guldur info? Can't Post

It looked like Gandalf was following Thrain out of Dol Guldur in one scene in the vlog suggesting that Thrain as a zombie is out of the question.

I feel like Gandalf will learn who the Necromancer is via Thrain telling him either when they leave Dol Guldur or perhaps as Thrian dies in the attempt to leave. I can't really see them introducing a whole "Gandalf gets captured" storyline in these movies.

Maybe Bolg will kill Thrain since he seems to be healthy running through DG? Something has to stop him and end up killing him right?


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Jul 1 2013, 6:10pm

Post #2 of 22 (621 views)
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Gandalf/Radagast sequence [In reply to] Can't Post

which we see in the very beginning of the VLog,where could it be ? Before the High Fells ? After them ? in Mirkwood ? after visiting Dol Guldur ?...Any ideas ???


Btw, i LOVE McCoys pronouncitaion :-) !!!!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 1 2013, 6:30pm

Post #3 of 22 (532 views)
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I was never into the notion of Gandalf being captured there. The cannon says narrow escape, [In reply to] Can't Post

but an escape just the same, and one that long predates the Dol Guldur assault. He escapes and brings definitive news to the council that they need to make an assault in the first place.

In Reply To
It looked like Gandalf was following Thrain out of Dol Guldur in one scene in the vlog suggesting that Thrain as a zombie is out of the question.

I feel like Gandalf will learn who the Necromancer is via Thrain telling him either when they leave Dol Guldur or perhaps as Thrian dies in the attempt to leave. I can't really see them introducing a whole "Gandalf gets captured" storyline in these movies.

Maybe Bolg will kill Thrain since he seems to be healthy running through DG? Something has to stop him and end up killing him right?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Jul 1 2013, 6:54pm

Post #4 of 22 (517 views)
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Yes I loved that line too! [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I'm not all for the character of Radagast the Clown as portrayed by PJ, I seriously can't think of anyone who could pull off the role as well as McCoy. The Wizard does require a bit of eccentricity and a degree of absent-mindedness, combined with a sense of hidden power, and Sylvester is near-perfect in all of those aspects of the character.

"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."-Gandalf


Gorbag
Rivendell


Jul 1 2013, 7:03pm

Post #5 of 22 (516 views)
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For me, the scenes we see in the new prod vlog, somewhat confirm two Gandalf/Thrain meetings. [In reply to] Can't Post

At 2:15, and 7:55, we see two shots of Gandalf with what 99% sure looks to be Thrain. Note in both shots he is without Glamdring.

Heres what i think is going to happen.

First meeting - PRE-Glamdring - Meets ''Good'' Thrain, gets key/map, Thrain gets recaptured/killed when they try to escape. (The scenes we saw in new Vlog.)

Second meeting - POST-Glamdring - Gandalf investigates Dol Guldur, ''Corrupted/Ressurected/Zombie'' Thrain attacks. (Leading to fights we saw in first AUJ trailer and DOS trailer)

First meeting will be done via flashback, likely in a discussion between Gandalf and Radagast about going into Dol Guldor to investigate. Also will set up Thrain attacking Gandalf, as the audience will know who it is. Second meeting likely not long after flashback scene.

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Jul 1 2013, 7:13pm

Post #6 of 22 (477 views)
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possible [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
At 2:15, and 7:55, we see two shots of Gandalf with what 99% sure looks to be Thrain. Note in both shots he is without Glamdring.

Heres what i think is going to happen.

First meeting - PRE-Glamdring - Meets ''Good'' Thrain, gets key/map, Thrain gets recaptured/killed when they try to escape. (The scenes we saw in new Vlog.)

Second meeting - POST-Glamdring - Gandalf investigates Dol Guldur, ''Corrupted/Ressurected/Zombie'' Thrain attacks. (Leading to fights we saw in first AUJ trailer and DOS trailer)

First meeting will be done via flashback, likely in a discussion between Gandalf and Radagast about going into Dol Guldor to investigate. Also will set up Thrain attacking Gandalf, as the audience will know who it is. Second meeting likely not long after flashback scene.


but dont forget to put the High Fells omewhere between all that stuff. I assumed it to be a flashback as well but after the first impressions from the trailer and the new VLog i suppose they are going to investigate the tombs in present time.


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Jul 2 2013, 3:24am

Post #7 of 22 (340 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm confused. Why did anyone think Thrain was going to be a zombie? Is it just part of this zombie obsession that is happening in popular media/culture the last couple years?


Why would anyone assume that the crazy pics of Thrain we have seen in the past are anything but Thrain after he has lost his mind during imprisonment at Dol Guldur?


Elizabeth
Valinor


Jul 2 2013, 5:22am

Post #8 of 22 (327 views)
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The suspicion is ... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that Jackson is taking the term "Necromancer" (which means a sorcerer who communes with the dead) literally, almost certainly influenced by the popularity of zombie tales nowadays. He appears to be making the Nazgul "reanimated" from the dead, may have done so with Azog, who was supposed to have been killed in the past, and may do the same with Thrain.

My reaction involves a lot of eyeball rolling, but I have to admit with PJ it's quite likely.








Gorbag
Rivendell


Jul 2 2013, 12:37pm

Post #9 of 22 (244 views)
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I REALLY highly doubt the suspicion of ''Zombies'' in the film are anything to do with the modern obsession of Zombies. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think saying that Zombies are going to be in the film because of the modern love of them, is completely wrong and dismissive of the talented people working on the film. I really doubt PJ and the team sat down and said ''Hey, people like Walking Dead, theres lots of Zombies about, lets put Zombies in!'', Im sorry, but i cant believe anyone would actually believe that.

If anything its PJ having fun with the ''Necromancer'' aspect of Sauron. Remember this is PJ's vision of Middle-earth, so you have to accept its going to be different, may have zombies, and will without doubt be fun.

Anyway, anything regarding that who ''Zombie'' stuff is pure conjecture, as this film hasnt been released yet, so no need for ''Eyeball Rolling'' just yet. Crazy

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring


Gorbag
Rivendell


Jul 2 2013, 12:47pm

Post #10 of 22 (229 views)
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I think the High Fells will be the lead up to Gandalf going to Dol Guldur a second time. I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think what they find in the High Fells will be the spur for Gandalf to investigate Dol Guldur (And get attacked by evil Thrain).

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Jul 2 2013, 12:54pm

Post #11 of 22 (227 views)
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You're certainly not the only one... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
My reaction involves a lot of eyeball rolling





Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Jul 2 2013, 1:15pm

Post #12 of 22 (221 views)
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Like Elizabeth said... [In reply to] Can't Post

Some people are speculating that Jackson will deviate from canon and have Sauron reanimating dead orcs and dwarves, simply because his nom de guerre is Necromancer. There's been a fair amount of speculation on these boards that both Azog and Bolg were killed at the Battle of Azanulbizar, and were bought back from the dead by Sauron (even though there is no proof or even insinuation of any of this). Likewise, some seem to believe that Thrain must have died when Gandalf got the map and key from him, forgetting that Jackson has thus far modified ALL of the timelines of the Appendix material, and he'll likely do the same with Thrain and move his timeline into the present. I don't see where some would get these ideas from, TBH. Saruman even remarks that the power to raise the dead does not exist in Middle-earth, so most likely all references to "the dead" in AUJ have to do with the Nazgul, who so far have been portrayed as much more ghost-like in comparison to their portrayal in the LOTR films.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Jul 2 2013, 1:16pm)


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Jul 2 2013, 1:43pm

Post #13 of 22 (197 views)
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totally agree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think what they find in the High Fells will be the spur for Gandalf to investigate Dol Guldur (And get attacked by evil Thrain).


And the scene we see at the very beginning of the VLog with Gandalf and Radagast surely is straight after the tombs .


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 2 2013, 1:59pm

Post #14 of 22 (198 views)
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No.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not alone....


Unsheathes criticism spearWink

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Rostron2
Gondor


Jul 2 2013, 4:54pm

Post #15 of 22 (168 views)
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Add my eyes to the rolling [In reply to] Can't Post

As I said in another post, the further PJ and team can run from that over-used trope (or any standard undead idea) the better. Now it's written that Sauron used some kind of necromantic magic to stir up the Barrow-wights to trouble his old enemies in Arnor, but I doubt he'd waste time on zombie orcs or zombie Azog. It took a lot of his power and skill just to create the rings and from them the Nazgul, who somewhat defined the whole undead genre.


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Jul 2 2013, 5:26pm

Post #16 of 22 (155 views)
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Barrow-wights [In reply to] Can't Post

From all the info I can gather on them, they are spirits that were sent out of Angmar by the Witch-king to raise the dead of the Barrow-downs from their graves. How the Witch-king was able to do this, and what exactly those spirits were, is a bit of a mystery.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jul 2 2013, 5:43pm

Post #17 of 22 (153 views)
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I tend to think [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf will go to Dol Guldur once and also see Thrain once in DoS. Thrain should be plenty alive and not reanimated in anyway. There's no possible way we are confusing a mad/insane dwarf with an evil zomby one right?? Wink


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 2 2013, 6:00pm

Post #18 of 22 (141 views)
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Yes... I remain totally unconvinced by all the talk of zombies.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...so far as I understand it, a zombie is a magically animated dead body - like JK Rowling's inferi or - on a very different level - the body of Prince Septimus in the film Stardust that the witches use to fight Tristan. It no longer has a mind or will of its own or any connection to the soul it once housed, it's just an empty thing being manipulated by the will of another person.

That's altogether different from necromancy - communing with the spirits of the dead. In that case there is no body but there is an independent mind and will. The Nazgul fit that description, in the books and the films, because they don't have flesh-and-blood bodies but they are the same individuals they always were.

I don't think there has been any evidence at all that the films will include any kind of zombie. Azog was injured but not killed. Thrain in the books was maddened by years in captivity and the glimpses we've seen so far seem to fit in perfectly well with that. The witch king appears to be as he was in the other films, a deathless or re-animated spirit.

Like you I wouldn't want to see zombies but I don't reckon we're going to, any more than we'll see kangaroos or a London bus.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 3 2013, 12:21am

Post #19 of 22 (95 views)
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I know what you mean. lol [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had to roll my eyes a few times lately. It started when I caught Azog walking about during The Hobbit timeline like he was alive! Who told Gorka Morka that was okay? As I have said before, "Go home, Azog, you're dead."

In Reply To
...that Jackson is taking the term "Necromancer" (which means a sorcerer who communes with the dead) literally, almost certainly influenced by the popularity of zombie tales nowadays. He appears to be making the Nazgul "reanimated" from the dead, may have done so with Azog, who was supposed to have been killed in the past, and may do the same with Thrain.

My reaction involves a lot of eyeball rolling, but I have to admit with PJ it's quite likely.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 3 2013, 12:35am

Post #20 of 22 (95 views)
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It has been said that the spirits were perhaps those of more minor Demons (think [In reply to] Can't Post

corrupt Maiar but not Balrog level) whose bodies had been destroyed/unhoused, and who were sent to take up new troubling houses in the bodies of the dead in the barrows.

In Reply To
From all the info I can gather on them, they are spirits that were sent out of Angmar by the Witch-king to raise the dead of the Barrow-downs from their graves. How the Witch-king was able to do this, and what exactly those spirits were, is a bit of a mystery.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Salmacis81
Grey Havens


Jul 5 2013, 11:44am

Post #21 of 22 (49 views)
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What is Gorka Morka? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Who told Gorka Morka that was okay?


I've seen a few people refer to Azog as such, just wondering what it means...


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 6 2013, 4:49am

Post #22 of 22 (48 views)
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There is a blog someone wrote in criticism of the first movie, and in it [In reply to] Can't Post

there is a very comical caricature cartoon of Azog standing boldly and proclaiming, ala a comedic, animated show, undead villain "Gorka Morka, I'm alive!" It fit so aptly the sentiment of many of us who disliked the extension of his life, that the proclamation stuck as an alias. lol

In Reply To

Quote
Who told Gorka Morka that was okay?


I've seen a few people refer to Azog as such, just wondering what it means...


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

 
 

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