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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
I don't see it that way

marillaraina
Rohan


Jun 28 2013, 2:39am


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I don't see it that way [In reply to] Can't Post


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Yes, the Elvenking brought an army to Erebor, but I think that he had goblins and bandits more in mind than anything else. His assumption was that Thorin and his companions were dead.

Thranduil had the Necromancer living in Dol Guldur with his servants and spies infesting southern Mirkwood. We have been told of malicious Dwarves allying themselves with evil things, he had every right to be suspicious of wanderers who stirred up trouble.

There is the question of whether (or if) Thranduil recognized Thorin Oakenshield. Unlike Peter Jackson, Tolkien seems to say that the Wood-elves had few if any dealings with the Dwarves under the Mountain. It is entirely possible that he couldn't tell Thorin from Balin or any other Dwarf. And the Elvenking must have been burning up with curiousity over what a Dwarf was doing with an elven blade from Gondolin.

At the Battle of the Five Armies, it was the Dwarves that started to attack first, rather than the Elves or Men.


Yeah sure he had goblins and bandits in mind. Sorry, I don't buy it. He stayed hidden in his little nook in the woods for ages, aside from a bit of trade, never really doing anything for anyone else, even when the dragon attacked(not different from the book, he may not have been standing there on a hill turning away, but he sure as heck didn't do anything else either) but now all of sudden out of the goodness of heart he's oh so worried about the goblins and bandits? That doesn't even make sense, beyond his being worried the goblins and bandits might reduce his share of the loot.

He had a right to be worried? About THOSE dwarves, who were obviously lost and starving. Maybe before he met them he had a right to be worried but once he saw them, no offense, but especially in the book, it was blatantly obvious these dwarves were pretty much incompetent. LOL

IMO you can't on one hand try to sell the elves as being so much more evolved and then claim they were terribly worried these starving, clearly confused little pack of dwarves were working for the dark powers when they could barely even feed themselves.

Either they are more highly evolved, in which case their behavior has to be held to a higher standard or they are just like everyone else, in which case they are just as capable of being greedy selfish jerks. IMO Thranduil proved himself to be on the selfish jerks side.

As for the dwarves starting it. The dwarves didn't show up with two armies. There were 13 of them and everyone knew it, once they knew they hadn't been killed and yet they show up on Thorin's doorstep with an army? Anyone, I don't care how peaceful you are is going to feel threatened by that. The fact is IMO they left Thorin, even if he hadn't been affected by the dragon sickness, very little choice but to act as he did.

I can see how he was wrong in his own way about things, I can see where his actions directly or indirectly led to some bad consequences, mostly for himself IMO, but sorry you show up with that kind of fire power, you are being threatening just by being there, especially against only 13 people. Once they knew the dwarves survived, if they'd really been interested in treating, they should have sent the armies away. Thorin had every right to refuse to treat when they had what the equivalent, in a gangster movie, of two thugs standing behind the godfather's shoulders as he's "requesting" your acquiescence to something.

Now given his mental state, he may well have found some excuse to refuse even after they'd done that, but that doesn't change the fact it was wrong to have that kind of firepower pretty much on his doorstep while coming to basically demand payment. If they truly wanted to do it in good faith, and possibly get the other dwarves on their side where they could potentially influence Thorin, anyone with half a brain knows you send the army away. That they didn't do it shows they didn't really care to do so in good faith.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jun 28 2013, 2:45am)

Subject User Time
What are your theories? **Spoilers** The Tenth Walker Send a private message to The Tenth Walker Jun 26 2013, 10:02am
    Screen writing courses have a lot to answer for. Bumblingidiot Send a private message to Bumblingidiot Jun 26 2013, 10:53am
        yes, indeed! swordwhale Send a private message to swordwhale Jun 26 2013, 5:31pm
    More spoilers! arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Jun 26 2013, 10:59am
        I can see your point The Tenth Walker Send a private message to The Tenth Walker Jun 26 2013, 10:04pm
    Well... Angharad73 Send a private message to Angharad73 Jun 26 2013, 11:47am
    They don't cancel each other out Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 26 2013, 2:51pm
    Re: What are your theories? **Spoilers** PreRaphaeliteHobbit Send a private message to PreRaphaeliteHobbit Jun 26 2013, 3:48pm
        I agree marillaraina Send a private message to marillaraina Jun 26 2013, 11:32pm
    Not the Deaths. Dwarvenfury Send a private message to Dwarvenfury Jun 27 2013, 4:22am
        Think about this Yngwulff Send a private message to Yngwulff Jun 27 2013, 5:50am
            The thing about the book and some of us... Marionette Send a private message to Marionette Jun 27 2013, 3:07pm
                The Sins of Thorin Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Jun 27 2013, 10:34pm
                    Can that be a sin. Dwarvenfury Send a private message to Dwarvenfury Jun 27 2013, 10:55pm
                        I still fault Thranduil for being an ungracious host Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Jun 27 2013, 11:03pm
                            I go with Dwarvenfury here marillaraina Send a private message to marillaraina Jun 28 2013, 12:13am
                                I think that you're a bit too hard on Thranduil Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Jun 28 2013, 12:34am
                                    I don't see it that way marillaraina Send a private message to marillaraina Jun 28 2013, 2:39am
                                        Tolkien tells us outright that the Elvenking has a weakness for gold and gems Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Jun 28 2013, 3:21am
                                            Yes but... *BOOK SPOILERS!!* arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Jun 28 2013, 12:54pm
                                                Because it is all about Thorin Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Jun 28 2013, 1:27pm
                                                    I agree! *Book Spoilers* arithmancer Send a private message to arithmancer Jun 28 2013, 2:07pm
                                                        Exactly! Otaku-sempai Send a private message to Otaku-sempai Jun 28 2013, 2:14pm
                                            1 marillaraina Send a private message to marillaraina Jun 28 2013, 11:45pm
                            That's the great thing Ardamírë Send a private message to Ardamírë Jun 28 2013, 12:36am
    Iconic Scenes IdrilofGondolin Send a private message to IdrilofGondolin Jun 27 2013, 8:59pm
        Interesting point. Dwarvenfury Send a private message to Dwarvenfury Jun 27 2013, 9:28pm

 
 
 

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