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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
As promised a SPOLIER heavy look at the Empire DOS Issue, needless to say those 'appendices' are more detailed then I remeber...
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malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 11:20pm

Post #126 of 253 (1031 views)
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The 'adult' version was a partial rewrite of the first three chapters in 1960 [In reply to] Can't Post

It was lent to an unamned female friend of the family, who stated 'it was great, but its not the hobbit', on this basis Tolkien abadoned it (but a few of the changes carried over to the 1966 version). It can be found in full in The History of The Hobbit.

It is really too minor to consider a rewrite but there are a few key differences-the narrators voice is very muted, Bilbo, Thorin and Gandalf are all much closer to there portrayls in LOTR, the prose is more complex and adult, and many of the dwarves have more dialogue, there are also a few thing added to the plot-the trolls destroy the bridge to Rindell, the company stop at Bree, and an explantion is given for why Gandalf couldn't read the runes on the swords. There is no hint of Legolas, Radagast or a Zombie Azog turning up though!

The History of The Hobbit is defintely worth reading, it explains all the various changes in the differnt drafts and published editions (for example Bilbo originally killed Smaug!)

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Escapist
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 11:25pm

Post #127 of 253 (1057 views)
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I'm glad to hear more about how they are expanding The Hobbit in this movie. [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved The Hobbit as a book and still do. One of my favorite things about it is the way it opens up my imagination. I can point out a few sentences - just a sentence alone - from that book that just sends my imagination flying!

But a raw, tight, minimalistic translation of book to screen has been done (more or less) already in cartoon form. Furthermore, I find the way that they are incorporating the links between TH, LotR and its appendices to be much more interesting (with some creative invention as well, yes). I already have TH as a book - seeing another person's (peoples') take on this great story is awesome fun.

I didn't see anything in that interview report that pricked my nerves. I think that adding a bit more of action packed struggle at a few points where there was already a struggle isn't overboard. I agree that Legolas really does fit here. I don't think it was necessary but I think having him as played by Orlando Bloom there more will add a lot to the story if they do it right. Responses to AUJ and the trailer for DOS seem to prove that while a few may be annoyed by this character, most of them really missed him in the first one and look forward to seeing him again. I would be one of the second group.

I looked pretty closely at the report about Tauriel. I think that "chafing at Thranduil's isolationist policies" fits in the story better than one report I heard of that made it sound like she was just sailing her own ship down her own river missing the boat of the rest of the kingdom and possibly the whole storyline ... but chafing at the isolationist policies that are at the heart of problems between the dwarves and elves as well as being the core question for the elves in general is just fine - better than fine, actually. It's good to see that this side of the elven internal struggles / issues / decisions is getting represented by a non-sindar elf in the kingdom.


marillaraina
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 11:26pm

Post #128 of 253 (1001 views)
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families [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But seriously given the father/son stuff they are developing, and the presence of Thrain in the film, I'd hedge a guess at Moria as he dissapears.


I don't know, I hope in all this they remember to develop Thorin's relationship with his nephews a little bit. They didn't even bother to mention they were his nephews. I'd rather see more of the relationships between the dwarves than Bard and his father or his son or even Legolas and Thranduil, though I am slightly interested in that.


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 11:26pm

Post #129 of 253 (1039 views)
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As i said Cuddles gets irrationally angry when he dosen't drink his tea [In reply to] Can't Post

And forgot he left his keys in his shed (yes he has a shed...I'm really getting into this...it's pretty late I need sleep...)
I
can't remember if the purse is in R/B it would certainly fit its tone

3D bear mucus falling in our laps? Hmm I'd rather see a 3D re-release of Braindead! Now that I would pay to see in 48 frames...

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 26 2013, 11:27pm

Post #130 of 253 (993 views)
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Thank you very much, kind sir! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's a shame that it hasn't been published in the 'adult' version. The 'children's' version could still be retained…


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jun 26 2013, 11:33pm

Post #131 of 253 (978 views)
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Bard (book spoilers) [In reply to] Can't Post

and his black arrows are in, so we can be pretty sure someone will step out of the crowd and take out the baddie, just as in the book.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 26 2013, 11:36pm

Post #132 of 253 (1009 views)
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Well.... [In reply to] Can't Post

we didn't dub entertainment journalists "neekerbreekers" during the LOTR era for no reason. Hype and promotion plays havoc with accuracy, and not everything survives the editing process (either in article or film) unchanged. My guess is that there is fire behind all this smoke, but it's quite difficult to see just how much through the haze. The one thing that does seem clear is that the tone and style of AUJ (minus some of the humor, apparently) will continue on through DOS. Those who didn't like the direction of the first film will probably not like this much better.

The dwarves may try to fight Smaug (although the question of "What with?" remains in the meantime) but also they may just make a big thing of Smaug catching them unawares and driving them into the secret door (in the book, he only guesses where it lies so he destroys the whole mountainside looking for it). We saw in AUJ that merely hiding behind a stone pillar shields one enough not to even be singed (just as standing on an outcrop amidst rivers of lava and falling fire and ash is survivable), so surely boulders would do as well. Or maybe after Bilbo's scorching return up the passageway they'll roll explosive charges down it to annoy Smaug in his lair and provoke him to come out and attack. Tongue

Silverlode

"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."



malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 11:36pm

Post #133 of 253 (989 views)
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No thanks-The Hobbit is The Hobbit, and deserves to be read as a totally differnt beast [In reply to] Can't Post

Think how many people wouldn't have been introduced to Tolkien if it weren't for the simple story.

As I said the adult 'version' is roughly 25 partial Pages in Total, and It is still recognisable as the hobbit (The talking purse is still in it, the trolls dialogue and Gandalf taunting them is the same), it seems pretty clear Tolkien viwed the hobbit as a sideshow to LOTR and The Sil, and was ulimately content to spend his efforts elsewhere. Even if C.Tolkien wanted to rewrite it which he could do as the literaray executor of Tolkien, there is too little to base the rewrite on, and in the eyes of most of TORn's users it would be a bad idea.

Whatever Tolkien may have considered doing it dosen't effect how the hobbit ended up in print, nor how it has, and should be perceived for the alst 76 years.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jun 26 2013, 11:45pm

Post #134 of 253 (948 views)
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Depends... [In reply to] Can't Post

on what you consider a victory in a battle. The campaign to regain Moria was not a success. The battle shown in the film, though, was won in the sense that the enemy was put to flight, more than reason enough for Balin's characterization of it.

The French might have considered Borodino won, after all! Kutuzov retreated, and Moscow fell. Wink


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Jun 27 2013, 12:00am

Post #135 of 253 (972 views)
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The only way Tauriel can become palatable [In reply to] Can't Post

to me, is if she gets drunk, as in the book, passes out, as in the book, thus allowing Bilbo to carry out the mass escape, then gets put on a verbal by her boss and made to peel spuds - which would at least explain her ridiculously over the top fighting as an attempt to redeem herself and get out of further punishment.


In Reply To
I'm still not too worried about Tauriel: nothing that's been said about her in this article would bother me much if she were a male captain of the guard, so I figure she'll just be a Jackson-style Elf.




Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Jun 27 2013, 12:12am

Post #136 of 253 (962 views)
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Yes, but [In reply to] Can't Post

it shows a lack of trust in the story if we have to have a direct, no doubt heroic, confrontation between the main characters and the big baddie.

The need to have this scene seems to me like yet more screen writing dogma, which gets the film back to familiar, unoriginal cliched territory, even if the actual death blow if delivered by the new guy.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 27 2013, 1:03am

Post #137 of 253 (946 views)
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Small correction [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
a few of the changes carried over to the 1966
version







Actually, when Tolkien was asked by the publishers to make revisions in 1966 (because of the Ace Book controversy he had to make revisions in order regain control over the copyright), he could not find the 1960 rewrite. So none of the changes from that rewrite made it into the 1966 revision (although it should be noted that Carpenter when Tolkien say down to make the revisions in 1966 after failing to find the 1960 work, he found much of the book to be "very poor" and had to restrain himself from starting over from the beginning and rewriting the whole book).

Sorry to be such a pedant.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 27 2013, 5:36am

Post #138 of 253 (859 views)
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I don't think so Bumblingidiot [In reply to] Can't Post

I read the OP and the rest of the thread.

We know PJ is using the appendices and making some changes to them and the Hobbit based upon the quote from the article, but he said from and earlier interview to "trust the book". To me it sounds like we will get much like what we had in AUJ ... all the main nuts and bolts with some changes. Artistic license or PJ's grand vision whatever you choose to call it for good or ill depending on your personal opinion is going to be there, it is an adaptation, and nowhere in the official adaptation handbook does it say a director has to faithfully mirror the book line for line word for word.

In AUJ we had all the basics :
Prologue/Backstory
Good morning!
An Unexpected Party
The 3 trolls
Rivendell/White Council
Goblintown capture
Riddles
Frying pan/Fire and eagle rescue

Some were pretty faithful and others had a slight twist or 2, but they were all there. I think we'll see pretty much the same formula in DOS and TABA including the stuff from the appendices.

I didn't agree with all of PJ's decisions for the script so far, especially Azog. Nor did I with everything in LOTR, but this is PJ's adaptaion of Tolkiens Hobbit not Tolkiens Hobbit.

On a side note, if what the article says is accurate, then perhaps exploring the father/son dynamic is why Azog was allowed to survive the Battle of Anzanzulbar(sp?), which until now I really couldn't see a reason for. A Bain/Bard, Legolas/Thranduil, Thrain/Thorin, Azog/Bolg, and perhaps a Bilbo/Bungo father/son relationshipor theme will be explored.

So as I was very pleased with 95% of the LOTR and AUJ and 100% with the overall feel of Middle Earth PJ has set to the silver screen so far, I will take the next 2 on faith that they will be good as well and I'll enjoy them thoroughly. As the next 2 films unfold, I think it will become clear as to why PJ made some of the changes he did, and hopefully for everyone concerned to good effect.


“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 27 2013, 6:36am

Post #139 of 253 (911 views)
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Some of this sounds good, some no better or worse than expected. A few things REALLY bother me though. [In reply to] Can't Post

Tauriel healing a girl with Elf magic . . . WHAAAAAAAA???! So far, Radagast, Elrond, Gandalf and Galadriel only have evinced that sort of healing power. And for them it makes perfect sense, being mighty High Elf Princes (gender neutral version) and Wizards. But a Silvan Elf? I like that she is 300 and exuberant, but why on EARTH should she have that type of command over magic and healing. Way to diminish all the people I mentioned.

Very glad Azog IS Bolg's father. I hope there is some Balrog refferencing if we are getting more Moria. He was always the real terror of Moria. It was never Azog. "It wasnot the trolls that filled the Elf with fear." And it wasn't fear of Azog that made the dwarves abandon Moria and stay away for a thousand yars.

In Reply To
Being a subscriber I was lucky enough to receive the issue through the post just now. I am writing this at a bit a rush so I'm not sure if this post will make much sense!!. Anyway most of the spoilers seem to be along the lines of what we have gussed, but there are a few new tidbits, and it is very clear Jackson is not making a hobbit film per se. And yes Legolas most defintely has much more than a cameo

Legolas will seemingily have his 'hero moments' like in the trilogy, but none are specified, Bloom was concerned about returning, but says his role makes 'sense'.
, he is slightly less worldly and more dwarf adverse. 'One of the many explorations DOS makes beneath the twee exterior of The Hobbit is to account for Legolas's subsequent departure from his homeland in Mirkwood'-that wasn't in the appendices was it?

'Yesterday Evangeline Lilly's Tauriel-a young Silvan Elf-resuscitated a dying human girl with a liquid burst of Elvish'-It notes that Lilly bought he fluency in French to the pronoucniation of Sindarin-were the two languages ever linked?

For all the special effects that will be bought to bear on The Hobbit trilogy, Jackson is still dangling actors on piano wires and constructing sets enshrouded in the own wintry patterns. 'This is his roots isn't it?' says Bloom
-Looks like TABA will be taking place in the winter

There is alot of mention of piano wires, so the matrix elves may a recurring motif!

Laketown-'Contary to the town on stilts of Tolkien's famous illustration the cramped streets are level with the waterline, giving it the dishevelled aspect of a Dickensian Venice, a labyryth of gimcracks walkways, bridges and buildings that stoop beneath the burden of the heavy roofs. Its a foogy cladestine sort of place where things skulk amongst the shadows'.
'
'As the Dwarves arrive, by barrel at the waterborne human habitation withtin trading distance of Erebor, so the orcs have traked them, pursued in turn by our nimble elf, having made his entrance in the Elven Halls of Mirkwood'

'This will probably get me struck off The One Ring party list but I am enjoying deviating from the book'-Jackson.

There are further references to the orcs hunting the party in Laketown, and confirmation of more 'appendices' materil.

Mirkwood is trippy with Mushroom spores. 'The bedtime lilt of Tolkien's debut novel however charming is long gone'

'You read the books, the appendices, the letters and the interviews that Tolkien gave. Jackson observes, 'and you realise you are dramatising some of the things he was hinting at' However far they deviate from the text they are taking Tolkien with them. *Azog*

The two strands of Bilbo and Gandalf's journeys will be interweaved till the end of the film, with offshoots to legolas (not Thranduil apparently) the Master of Lakewton, and Bard's new backstory.

There is less humour in thsi film as it wasn't considered appropriate, the films will be getting more and more serious

By the end of the First act Gandalf will have a pretty good idea of who the Necromancer is-we will meet him in the film and see Cumberbatches 'mo-cap thing' come to life.

Azog is still after the company and will be joined by Bolg (though it isn't enitirely clear how he slots in)

Tauriel has big ears, and is roughyl 300 years old, much less wise and more dangerous than Legolas. She is 'chafing against Thranduil's isolationist policy.' Thranduil has a contemtp for what is going on out there. The elves won't resemble the 'fairytale creatures of the book' acoording to the articles writer.

Lee Pce looked Oberon and the Fisher King as inspiration, hikes overnight into NZ countryside to get into menidset, and says the corrupted nature of Mirkwood relects who he is. Thranduil is 3000 years old in the film-as far as I can remember this wasn't stated in the books. Thranduil has a Katana like sword, and soen't readily choose to use his force 'He has the reputation of being the greatest warrior in Middle Earth'

At least 5 orcs will pursue the dwarves into Laketown

Fathers and sons is a big theme in the film, it will examine the Bond between Throrin and Thrain in great detail, there is a flashback to his dissapearance outisde Moria, they will explore the 'complicated' issues between Legolas and Thranduil. Bolg IS the son/spawn of Azog,

'Desolation will commence somewhere familiar, but unexpected'. It will conclude with one of the 'biggest things' Jackson has ever created.

'Jackson has always felt the book lacked a definte confrontation between the dwarves and Smaug. He's rectified that. There will be bombs, inferanl artillery, and one mightily pissed off dragon. 'It gets pretty crazy'.

Is he sure he has enough left for the final film 'Oh yes, there is much to come. We have a battle with five armies' he says. 'You never know, it might be seven, eight or nine armies by the time we finish'

As I said I ahve just torn through the article as quickly as I could, so I may have missed a few things. All in all it seems Jackson has some interesting ideas up his sleeve, but this will not be an adaptaion of The Hobbit we know and love.

Sorry Daniel, the talkinf purse dosen't seem to make an appearance.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


emre43
Rohan

Jun 27 2013, 6:57am

Post #140 of 253 (837 views)
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We'll have to agree to disagree then [In reply to] Can't Post

Legolas was a prominent Elf archer of Mirkwood. It is more than likely that he was present at at least the Bo5A. I'm sure even Tolkien would admit to that. The Hobbit contains such little detail that it is simply putting a name to a face.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 27 2013, 6:59am

Post #141 of 253 (847 views)
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I doubt they would be so daring (despite being willing to show beheadings) but Bolg's mother [In reply to] Can't Post

could easily be human or even Elven. Orcs capture people (they captured Arwen's mother), and monsters who will murder will commit other crimes that fall short of murder. This is actually more closely in sync with what Saruman was really doing in Isengard, which was the breeding of orcs with humans.

In Reply To
But imagine what there mum looks like!

From what it says in the article (still in the possesion of my brother damn him) Pj reffers to Bolg as Azog's spawn not son, gievn the Orcs being created by Sauron stuff inserted into The Two Towers, I think they will go down the route of Azog and Co being bred by the Necromancer and sent into Moria to stir up trouble.

On a side noted anyone else think Azog looked a little like the Engineers from Prometheus?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 27 2013, 7:44am

Post #142 of 253 (802 views)
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Not really. The orcs simply fleeing is not enough. The dwarves would not have [In reply to] Can't Post

been at leisure to camp out on the front porch and go around tending to wounded and finishing off remaining orcs as the film essentially depicts, if the orcs were just sitting and regrouping within the gates, and the orcs would not have fled inside unless holding the day in battle was hopeless. The film shows the dwarves on a rampage of slaughter after the rally, just as with the book.

However the film also shows a great fire within the halls of Moria as Azog is dragged away. Propriety and both adherence to film continuity and novel cannon would dictate the flames as those of The Balrog. The real terror and master of Moria, the only reason the Dwarves abandoned it to begin with, the reason the orcs were able to enter, and the real force keeping Durin's folk from returning. There is but one Durin's Bane and it sure wasn't Azog.

In Reply To
The movie does explain it. The Orcs fled, the Dwarves had such heavy casualties ('beyond the count of grief', if memory serves) the few survivors can easily be understood not to have had the wherewithal to carry the fight to the Orcs further.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 27 2013, 7:49am

Post #143 of 253 (813 views)
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Awesome possibility regarding Thrain and The Balrog, and orcs. [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps Thrain's madness was a battle madness (as his grief in the book drove him near), and goes into a frenzy of orc killing rushes alone into Moria itself. There he continues his killing. He is within when a wounded Azog is brought through, and he pursues the orcs carrying him further into Moria with the intent of slaying. Only to behold The Balrog. He is paralyzed with terror by the presence of Durin's Bane, and the orcs come fearfully forward and take him as hapless prisoner as he stands petrified.

In Reply To
Apparently he went missing during it. It would perhaps make sense if he spotted Azog being dragged back in and tried to follow him inside. Possibly he could glimpse the Balrog inside, which exacerbates his grief and madness.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 27 2013, 7:53am

Post #144 of 253 (805 views)
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"When he came back he was grey in the face, as one who has felt a great fear." he said to Thrain [In reply to] Can't Post

"You are the Father of our folk. We have bled for you and will again. But we will not enter Khazad-Dum. YOU will not enter Khazad-Dum. . . Beyond the shadow it waits for you still. Durin's Bane. The world must change, and some other Power than that of the dwarves must come before Durin's folk walk again in Moria."

In Reply To
Just re-watched that scene. Basically Balin said after Azog got his arm sliced off, that the dwarves rallied and drove the orcs back, and the enemy was defeated. However, no feast because their dead was beyond the count (of grief). Afterwards, he was only concerned about finding a new leader.

Now, how can the orcs be defeated, if they still controlled Moria?! PJ never explained where the Dwarves went after the Battle... I assume they continued being nomads? Hopefully this will be explained in either the EE or in DOS.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 27 2013, 7:55am

Post #145 of 253 (804 views)
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None of the Fellowship went mad [In reply to] Can't Post

From seeing the Balrog.


“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”


elostirion74
Rohan

Jun 27 2013, 7:58am

Post #146 of 253 (793 views)
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hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

All of what you write seems very reasonable and probable. Based on some segments from the trailer and what they write about orcs pursuing the Company and making an attack in Lake Town, it seems like PJ & co. are continuing some of the same ideas from AUJ. What I fear, though, is that PJ has begun to indulge himself a little too much with all the action effects, which can lead to a more uneven film, with more generic/cliched action scenes.. Artistically I think most artists do better work when they have to discipline themselves in and cut some of the things they like to indulge in.

I don't think there's time in the film to explore several father/son dynamics, without the film getting completely out of hand. Thranduil and Legolas, yes, since it relates to an important part of the film, and perhaps one other, but that is as much as the film can take as I see it.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 27 2013, 8:11am

Post #147 of 253 (783 views)
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They were not alone and they also were led by a Wizard. Dain, "hardy and full of wrath as he was" [In reply to] Can't Post

came down from the great gate, "grey in the face, as one who has beheld a great fear." Legolas and Gimli both dropped their weapons in terror. Gimli went so far as to COVER his eyes.

Thrain will be alone in the lair of The Demon, with no friends about him. And, when I say mad, I do not mean "insane beyond recovery". I mean simply paralyzed by fear and a horrific type of awe. And I did not actually say the Balrog drove him mad. I sad a madness of rage and grief sent him on an orc killing spree that led into Moria itself, and that he eventually beholds the Balrog, is TERRIFIED into a temprorary paralysis of fear and despair, and is captured.

Before him would be that which, according to Gimli, "haunts" the "deepest nightmares" of all Dwarves. Thrain coming face to face with it and, as a result, dropping his arms from nerveless fingers as Legolas and Gimli will later do, giving up hope (as Dain does in the face of this unbeatable and terrifying foe) and being too overwhelmed to even attempt to fight the orcs who could then come upon him would not be at all out of place.

In Reply To
From seeing the Balrog.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Jun 27 2013, 8:14am)


jtarkey
Rohan


Jun 27 2013, 8:40am

Post #148 of 253 (784 views)
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I apologize, sincerley [In reply to] Can't Post

I just found some of PJ's alleged comments to be pretty offensive in themselves, and certainly not in respect to Tolkien. I jut got carried away.

Anyways...not all of this is as bad as I thought upon first reading. However, a lot of it still comes across as cliche' and in more in the spirit of bombastic, mega blockbusters. I'll keep an open mind until the film is released, but it's not looking great so far IMO.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 27 2013, 8:59am

Post #149 of 253 (760 views)
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You said madness [In reply to] Can't Post

not paralyzed with fear in earlier posts, and nobody entered after Dain slew Azog at the gate per book canon, Not saying that PJ could overlook that in light of the fact in the film that Azog survived, but it seems unlikely. If memory serves as well, the dwarves nearly lost, but for reinforcements late in the day which turned the tideTheres nothing to connect the Balrog with Dol Guldur either.


Quote

Now, how can the orcs be defeated, if they still controlled Moria?! PJ never explained where the Dwarves went after the Battle... I assume they continued being nomads? Hopefully this will be explained in either the EE or in DOS.



The dwarves sacked many goblin strongholds in the Misty Mountains during the 5+ year Goblin/Dwarf war(Mount Gundabad was the capitol) if I recall correctly culminating in the Battle of Annulzibar(sp?), where 3/4+ of the Misty Moutain Goblins were slain and the fallen dwarves were so great in number they burned them as opposed to the customary entombment or burial. Afterwards, the fallen from the battle were referred to as being a "burned dwarf" as a sign of deference or respect. To be sure many of the surviving goblins fled into Moria for sanctuary under the protection of the balrog and many survivors fled south.

There were some nomadic dwarves surely, but most lived in settlements like the Blue mountains or the Iron hills


“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Jun 27 2013, 9:03am

Post #150 of 253 (897 views)
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Thanks for the link... [In reply to] Can't Post

and here be the missing pages with the text! Wink


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort

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